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IronicDongz posted:Yes, except it's not pretty good, it's really good. FoFi^Oka is why I have the fastest realtime speedrun right now, you could do a hell of a lot worse. I went with oka and I'm doing well so far, except for him giving me two morningstars when I'm longsword specced. I asked just in case there was some stupid edge case with formicids I hadn't considered and would only realise when I'm trying to finesse up for a tough fight and bupkis happens.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:35
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The thing is Fo have really good durability in a fight with shield/large shield, and when you have finesse your offense is sorted and durability is all you need.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:11
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What the heck should I be looking to branch into around midgame as an Enchanter? I've been giving it a whirl as a kobold due to the high multipliers on Short Blades and Stealth, but I'm pretty dang sure hibernation and the like aren't going to hold out forever. Something like translocations?
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Nov 11, 2016 00:04
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I don't remember Ko apts, but Controlled Blink is a very good GTFO button.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:39
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Depends on your god? Some can go full-ninja and steal 3 runes. Others might want to crosstrain into LBl or rely on Invo/Evo
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Nov 11, 2016 00:41
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Sage Grimm posted:Dump Animate Skeleton. I have been changing spells as I find amnesia. The removal of book amnesia means a late vehumet convert has big time issues if they have poor scroll luck. Ideally I'd lose Bolt of Fire and Iron Shot and add shatter, cblink, and servitor but I haven't found any of them with 4 runes down. quote:Abyss->rumble around Zot for more XP->Vaults:5->Pan->Tomb->Hell->Orb run. Doesn't sound much different. Why Tomb before Hell, has something changed? If anything Tomb looks harder now. I thought people might do Tomb before something easy to have time to get their stats back.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:57
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Switching to Zin/TSO before Tomb gives you easy piety if you can handle the wrath
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Nov 11, 2016 01:15
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Araganzar posted:I have been changing spells as I find amnesia. The removal of book amnesia means a late vehumet convert has big time issues if they have poor scroll luck. You can always trawl Pan or Abyss for easy xp by the time you're ready for Tomb or Hell
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Nov 11, 2016 01:19
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 I sure am glad they took out restore abilities potions. And that I ate the purple.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:33
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Removing RestAb is high on the list of dumb things.
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Nov 11, 2016 02:05
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Oh man i missed that there was a new version and tourney 
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Nov 11, 2016 02:09
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busb posted:Oh man i missed that there was a new version and tourney You have about 20 hours to join a team, and 8 days until the tourny ends! Plenty of time for a win. KitFox88 made a new team at the end of page 4, or you could make your own or search other places like irc/reddit.
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Nov 11, 2016 02:27
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New discord (see OP) in addition to IRC classics, too.
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Nov 11, 2016 03:31
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I just found the +4 morningstar of Bufilior {holy, Fragile rF++ rC+++ Dex+3} in the Ice Caves. I'm a FoFi^Oka mainlining Axes, and have a +1 Battleaxe of Venom and am mid-Lair. This thing looks like a lot of fun but fragile ruins it. Is this something I can use for a while before morningstars become too weak? How far could I take this thing?
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Nov 11, 2016 04:53
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Fhqwhgads posted:I just found the +4 morningstar of Bufilior {holy, Fragile rF++ rC+++ Dex+3} in the Ice Caves. I'm a FoFi^Oka mainlining Axes, and have a +1 Battleaxe of Venom and am mid-Lair. This thing looks like a lot of fun but fragile ruins it. Is this something I can use for a while before morningstars become too weak? How far could I take this thing? Not worth it. Being practically immune to fire and ice isn't worth tanking your offense. A +4 morningstar wouldn't be worth respeccing over even if it didn't waste your two-handed bonus, and holy is a specialist brand for the early and mid game.
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Nov 11, 2016 05:25
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This tournament has been going terribly for me so instead of splatting more I drew another bad picture. Floodkiller posted:Pearl dragons are horseshit that shouldn't be spawning in Depths. If they are able to, at least make the breath like any other dragon instead of an undodgable AOE fireball that leaves clouds, all of which are of an irresistable (except for AC) damage type and even more incredibly dangerous if you happen to be playing the wrong species. Pretty sure they only spawn in special vaults which are absurdly rare. They'd be absurd as a normal enemy. Haifisch posted:
Fortunately a Trog worshiper has no need for brains. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 05:41
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After my one win with a GrEE more than a year ago and getting super far with a TrMo of Ru and dying in Hell like an idiot instead of winning, I have been stuck in just an endless rut of getting nowhere and then dying before even getting a rune. Crawl has gotten to just be hella frustrating, and the shorter lair with the lack of goodies/wads of XP on the last floor only makes it tougher for me. I often get to the end of lair but then from there the difficulty spike is too high, I live until I run out of consumables, and then I die. Just lost a VPEn of Hep because after lair and orc and everything but last floor Snake, everything was just pure murder. I was hoping being VP instead of Spriggan would mean i'd be less crippled against things that have an under 20% chance to confuse/sleep but nope. How do people win with stabbers? The MR just keeps going up up up, and Shoals is more dangerous than friggin Zot. Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 06:15
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shoals is insanely, insanely trivial with a hexer, as long as you've found invisibility. generally, you just need to have a large toolkit of effects to try to have something that works against everyone, and ideally you might want to branch out into something else, e.g. summoning (good synergy!) or straight-up melee (probably long blades). depends on your apts, your god, and what you find. you can check out what i was casting in my last spen run (bottom of the morgue); i did shoals around xl 18 and snake around xl 20, both with a pretty pure 'hexing' approach. the exact spell list isn't critical, for snake, but metabolic englaciation was good (mass irresistable slow), tukima's dance was very good (dancing weapons are strong and most stuff in snake is vulnerable), yara's was good for wiping haste away from the many self-hasting monsters in snake, silence was decent against nagarajas, cigotuvi's embrace was very very good for giving me some actual defenses... and confuse still worked, tbh. probably petrify would've been good too. shoals was pretty much just invis, lol. but if i hadn't had that, i think most of those same spells i listed would've worked well. i didn't have too much trouble keeping all but the top-end monsters hexable (~50% success or better), through the lair branches at least. looking at your game, i don't see much that's obviously wrong. you went way further into stealth than i would've (i'd probably have stopped around ~9-10 at most - stealth is a lot less useful than it sounds, that's why it's so cheap!), and going hexer ancestor for a hexer character is sort of dubious - ideally your god would help you out when you're up against non-hex-vulnerable enemies, rather than doubling down and leaving you with no backup. knight or battlemage would probably have been better (though i'm sure it's winnable regardless). watching the tv of your death, it's not really so much about your character's build as the standard crawl problem of realizing that you were in trouble a few turns too late. should've run away sooner! PleasingFungus fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 06:22
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Floodkiller posted:Pearl dragons are horseshit that shouldn't be spawning in Depths. If they are able to, at least make the breath like any other dragon instead of an undodgable AOE fireball... done. (you dodged it 2-3 times before it hit you, actually!) there are plenty of other monsters that will have no mercy on players still using Summon Ice Beast and Lightning Spire in Depths. salt aside, i'm not extremely sold on your complaints here.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:43
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Tollymain posted:i wonder how much participation in the tourney is going to be depressed by current events
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Nov 11, 2016 06:57
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i'm crawling for escapism, personally
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Nov 11, 2016 06:58
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Weeping Wound posted:The blast of butt flame engulfs butt! The noble pearl dragon, "Breaking Wind" P.S. For the first day, I could not crawl. For the second day, it was only Gozag. And now, I'm good till January.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:59
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At least when terrible poo poo happens to me in crawl, I know it was at least indirectly my own fault.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:00
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PleasingFungus posted:shoals is insanely, insanely trivial with a hexer, as long as you've found invisibility. No invis sadly, though I did discover Gell's Gravitas is actually a decent damage spell against swarms of enemies since I had never bothered to learn it before. As far as not running away goes I was pretty much out of escape consumables and I'm leery about running away in shoals due to the water slowing you down (i think?) and the fast/reaching enemies that sometimes have ranged attacks. I honestly would have done shoals later but I had exhausted my other options and needed to get more consumables/equipment somewhere. I probably should have just dived deeper in the main dungeon or done Elf:1 or something.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:30
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I would pay for a premium service that lets me jump to level 15
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Nov 11, 2016 11:53
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PleasingFungus posted:done. (you dodged it 2-3 times before it hit you, actually!) I guess I didn't notice because I was too busy making GBS threads my pants. There was no real base to my complaint there, so don't take it too seriously. I was just being salty for losing a Nemelex choice that late to a monster that specifically targets my species and that I've never seen actually appear in Depths before (as Internet Kraken pointed out, though, it was probably only appearing due to a rare vault anyway). I probably would have been just as salty to Mennas camping a set of stairs, to be honest. I was actually in Depths to get more experience to get Tornado online because I had enough defenses and the lightning spire and ice beasts were actually enough to chip away at hordes while I tanked it all. I do feel that the breath being both a heavy impact and AOE effect is a little harsh if they have a chance of appearing in 3 rune games for undead species.
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Nov 11, 2016 12:12
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You might be able to dodge the blast but you can't dodge the clouds, and they are real nasty. I had an extended character that could facetank pan lords but every pearl dragon encounter (all two of them in holy pan - pearl dragons might be the rarest monster that can spawn in the game?) was a trial because I had to cheiwalk through the clouds, I'm not surprised a depths vampire got vaporized. A pearl dragon in depths is really mean, they are iron giant/juggernaut level dangerous but nobody ever fights them so you don't notice. Darox fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 12:58
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Was there a change to how rN worked on enemies, or does vampiric still not work against anything with at least one pip of rN? I just rebranded a venomous battleaxe into vampiric and feel like I should be all  on this but am still hoarding my enchantment scrolls.Edit: Or do I go all in on vampiric and then try to rebrand if I want to do extended? (obligatory assuming I survive to that point which I won't)
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Nov 11, 2016 15:13
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Is it observation bias or did something change with the bonuses that can be be generated on randart war axes? For two games in a row each randart war axe I've grabbed has been +10 or +12 with some really minor if any maluses. It's pretty badass.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:48
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PleasingFungus posted:you went way further into stealth than i would've (i'd probably have stopped around ~9-10 at most - stealth is a lot less useful than it sounds, that's why it's so cheap!), and going hexer ancestor for a hexer character is sort of dubious - ideally your god would help you out when you're up against non-hex-vulnerable enemies, rather than doubling down and leaving you with no backup. knight or battlemage would probably have been better (though i'm sure it's winnable regardless). Hexer is the best Hep pet, and it's ESPECIALLY the best pet for a hexer, because of this weird mechanic where casting hexes costs you a turn of play. Every spell it casts leads to quick kills for a stabber and it doesn't use MP. At XL19 it's the only pet you can put behind you or have miles away because it has mass confusion. Stealth is a little high but 9-10 would be pretty low with a +4 apt. The main issue was being running shoals at XL 16 without blink or invis and 2-3 full levels of D left. Didn't wait too long to use escape. There was no escape - no fear and no blink. Also terrible gear overall, Hep is strong enough that doesn't matter but still, terrible gear. Only 1 teleport scroll. Would earlier Bat form have worked? Harpies are speed 25. If I'm weak in Shoals I play like I'm pulling the Elf 3 vault. I sit at the stairs yelling and shooting meph clouds out, I try to always know where a stairs is, if I find a stairs I explore it to make sure I have a safe spot, etc. The threat in shoals is half monsters and half landscape. But the main thing I want to point out for future play is this: code:Araganzar fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 16:22
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Fhqwhgads posted:Was there a change to how rN worked on enemies, or does vampiric still not work against anything with at least one pip of rN? I just rebranded a venomous battleaxe into vampiric and feel like I should be all Vampiric is a very desirable ego. This is especially true if you are a pure melee with good defenses. Use it. Enchant it provided you have no reason to want to wield anything else (like a rod or ranged weapon). Threatening rN creatures are not all that common. Most of them you can simply walk away from. Battleaxe is plenty for a 3-rune win and saves you tons of xp.
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Nov 11, 2016 17:59
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Araganzar posted:Hexer is the best Hep pet, and it's ESPECIALLY the best pet for a hexer, because of this weird mechanic where casting hexes costs you a turn of play. Every spell it casts leads to quick kills for a stabber and it doesn't use MP. At XL19 it's the only pet you can put behind you or have miles away because it has mass confusion. This doesn't answer my argument, though. The problem for enchanters isn't dealing with enemies that are vulnerable to hexes, it's dealing with enemies that *aren't*, and a hexer ancestor won't help with that at all. Araganzar posted:Stealth is a little high but 9-10 would be pretty low with a +4 apt. The main issue was being running shoals at XL 16 without blink or invis and 2-3 full levels of D left. Didn't wait too long to use escape. There was no escape - no fear and no blink. Also terrible gear overall, Hep is strong enough that doesn't matter but still, terrible gear. Only 1 teleport scroll. Would earlier Bat form have worked? Harpies are speed 25. Re-watching the tv, though, the real issue was that he charged into a fight with what turned out to be a group of enemies, rather than pulling enemies toward himself. You can't play like an o-tab berserker on weaker characters! Araganzar posted:Should have been using Transference. Drain lowers HP (edit: HD), MR, and Accuracy, all very useful for a hexer. Draining does not lower MR, and hasn't since 0.16. (Even then, it only lowered MR for an arbitrary subset of monsters!) Maybe it should! I think it'd be a fun interaction - it was one of the original design goals of modern draining. But it doesn't right now.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:05
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I just got trolled so hard by the secret door vault of doom in Elf:2. Good job guys, good job.
LordSloth fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 19:35
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PleasingFungus posted:This doesn't answer my argument, though. The problem for enchanters isn't dealing with enemies that are vulnerable to hexes, it's dealing with enemies that *aren't*, and a hexer ancestor won't help with that at all. I've won 4, maybe 5 games as a hexer/stabber with the hex pet. Enemies that are immune to hexes and see invis that are powerful enough to be an issue yet not so powerful your pet can take them with limited help are rare. And if not, you are hep, you can just transfer and walk away from almost all of them. Frankly, if you don't have invis or any other alternative to stabbing hexed creatures your game is in trouble regardless of your pet. There are myriad situations where the hex pet is outstanding with a stabbing build and mass confuse is absolutely stupid. The only annoying thing about the hex pet is it has no idea it's paralyzed someone and will sit there hexing it when it could kill it with one stab. Meanwhile the fighter blocks your LOS like his/her life depends on it. On draining, there's still code that drops MR based on HD but it looks like practically it's not employed due to the monster data settings. Most people I know thing it's one of the best brands. What else does draining affect? I have been told the -accuracy is better than Dith's aura....
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Nov 11, 2016 19:52
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Araganzar posted:I've won 4, maybe 5 games as a hexer/stabber with the hex pet. Enemies that are immune to hexes and see invis that are powerful enough to be an issue yet not so powerful your pet can take them with limited help are rare. And if not, you are hep, you can just transfer and walk away from almost all of them. Frankly, if you don't have invis or any other alternative to stabbing hexed creatures your game is in trouble regardless of your pet. Araganzar posted:On draining, there's still code that drops MR based on HD but it looks like practically it's not employed due to the monster data settings. Most people I know thing it's one of the best brands. What else does draining affect? I have been told the -accuracy is better than Dith's aura....
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Nov 11, 2016 20:42
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Doesn't the hexer have an antimagic quickblade? That's still gonna be powerful against tons of monsters that are immune to hexes.
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Nov 11, 2016 20:46
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Internet Kraken posted:Doesn't the hexer have an antimagic quickblade? That's still gonna be powerful against tons of monsters that are immune to hexes. At level 25 or so, yeah. Before that they have a dagger of draining. (At least until the mid teens, as that's when my last Hep worshipper with the hexer died.)
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Nov 11, 2016 20:47
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Is there a good rundown of the different Hep ancestors anywhere? I'm paralyzed by choice!
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Nov 11, 2016 22:49
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