Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

lazorexplosion posted:

Saying 'we can just replace wands of haste with more haste potions' fundamentally misunderstands an aspect of game design.

Finding a haste potion seven times is less exciting than finding a single wand of haste once.

Finding 0-1 haste wands has more variability than finding n haste potions. The dramatic difference in tool availability gives different runs different advantages and disadvantages which gives them a different flavor each time.

Removing the strong but rare wands literally makes Crawl less exciting and varied. The way that you have a potions with baseline availability and wands with swingy availability is actually a strength not a sign of redundancy that needs to be removed.

emptyquote

e:

apple posted:

I think a real consideration should be that something like haste, as simple and "bland" as it may be (150% output increase wow!), is attractive because being faster and therefore that much more powerful is fun. Maybe it needs to be more rare or situational, but I don't think there's anything wrong with players being able to haste in and of itself, there's plenty of unrands that fall under "overpowered". Maybe moving it to an unrand would make most people happy?

e: Maybe a rechargeable evokable thingy since that way everyone could use it (unless you're Ru and.. you know)

There's a thread on the tavern about "Challenge Modes" and one suggestion is that no artefacts spawn. And I have to say that is the greatest challenge of them all. Because your resists are completely reliant on getting a ring or an armor or a weapon with multiples. Not to mention slaying or SInv or evokable properties.
If the Devs want to make Crawl more balanced, don't take away the quality-of-life items like wands, self-buffs, or rMut & the other good amulets, take away the crazy RandArts and UnRands that let poor tactical play plow through lategame encounters. Except that you then run into lazor's point about good game design providing excitement.

VVVVVV Also, this. Though I realy want to manage a 15-rune win at least once first. Closest I ever got ran out of permafoodVVVVVV

Speleothing fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Dec 19, 2016

# ¿ Dec 19, 2016 03:34

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 16, 2024 01:31

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Also, let's not forget that dpeg is trying to distract us from the crimes of
a) ogres losing their m&f apt
b) the whole malmutate situation

edit: though I do agree with dpeg on book-destruction for spell slots being a good thing. I use it just about any time I get a caster past lair

Speleothing fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Dec 19, 2016

# ¿ Dec 19, 2016 03:53

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

IronicDongz posted:

halberd has like 3 different pointy bits though!

on a related note, buff halberds, they're in an awkward spot where you almost never want to use them-they're like morningstars as a common weapon with 13 base damage, but instead of trading a bit of damage or delay(like a broad axe, which takes 18 skill instead of 16) for their unique ability(reaching), they become 2H. but you almost never want to use one for a long time because glaives are also 2H, not too uncommon, and better. they're purely a transition weapon whereas sometimes you do end up using a morningstar or broad axe all game

They're a clear upgrade over tridents if you're not planning to use a shield anyway. And you can often find one on a gnoll or an orc by d:4 or d:6. Just as much a transitional weapon as a flail or a scimitar. You've got a 1-2-3 progression for both one-handed and two-handed polearms. And the two-handers are already alphabetized with the best one first (scythes are the worst, and their description even calls them out as unsuitable for combat).

# ¿ Dec 21, 2016 00:39

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Maybe certain weapons become one-handed at a skill breakpoint? (minor Str/Dex weighting too maybe)

# ¿ Dec 21, 2016 02:41

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

gently caress everything

# ¿ Dec 21, 2016 07:13

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

I like how removing the good wands, a very major change, wasn't mentioned or alluded to in the Dev Wiki's 0.20 planning page. Nor was there any discussion on the Tavern. Just dpeg coming to SA to troll us for a week before committing it.

# ¿ Dec 21, 2016 15:09

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

The list of bad mutations on the Wiki is way out of date*, but the following are mutations that ruin games at lvl one:
-Berserkitis
-Teleportitis
-Blurry Vision
-Either of the reduced healing muts

* (maybe y'all should make edit access easier so the first thing new players turn to stays updated)

# ¿ Dec 21, 2016 21:30

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Internet Kraken posted:

I was talking about a hybrid more from the point of someone that augments there offense with support spells and buffs. Technically anyone who casts magic and also uses a melee is a hybrid but that contains a bunch of different playstyles. It was a poor choice of words on my part.

I wasn't trying to argue about what kind of playstyle is better or something anyways. What matters is that with the way their apts are set up, a high elf will play a lot differently than a tengu.

No. You used the word 'hybrid' correctly. They are the ones with a weird definition that includes minion-spammers and quasi-blasters not just self-buffers.

# ¿ Dec 24, 2016 04:15

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Microcline posted:

Stealth is consistently on-par with heavy armor pre-lair. Losing those starting two pips means giving up the ability to freely walk away from things you don't want to fight.

That's just getting yourself behind on the XP curve, which is even deadlier for casters.

# ¿ Dec 24, 2016 17:22

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

E Equals MC Hammer posted:

Shadow creatures + zin + pan scumming = 2ez

Shadow creatures just dumps daevas on you it is fantastic.

Holy poo poo, that's amazing. I would have never thought that it'd only spawn holy critters in Pan when you're worshipping a good god.

# ¿ Dec 26, 2016 19:09

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Not orange, ice, & basalt statues, surely? Just the ones that block movement?

Also, I abandoned Trog as a Frog, and the hopping totally neutralized the wrath.

# ¿ Dec 31, 2016 04:09

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Internet Kraken posted:

Those guys sound really fun. Frogs are cool too so good theme for a race. They totally should have an auxillary tongue slap attack though

EDIT: No wait, give them innate apportation so they can grab items from anywhere on the screen with their tongue!

I almost won a Frog in experimental, but an OoF gave me teleportitis in the Lungs. They're totally solid, and could at most use good ranged apts to help with the slow. (Though apportion is a sweet mini-buff too)

# ¿ Jan 6, 2017 01:44

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

I actually just remembered a n idea from one of my pre-alarm hazes had a few days ago. It was for a new alternative branch:

The Dreamworld
It would show up to hold the last postgame-rune in games where you get Hells but not Pan, if that situation gets implemented.

The walls & floor would look like fluffy clouds, and it would be kinda abyss-y in how it changed but there would be lots of Dream Sheep and flying enemies.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2017 02:15

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

# ¿ Jan 6, 2017 19:38

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

You have to have the spell memorized to be able to train the skill. You can memorize 100% failure spells if you want to start training for them. Anticipate needing at least 8-13 in the relevant schools for lvl 3/4 spells. Anything higher than 6 is probably a no-go in mid to heavy armor.

Also, raise your armor skill & Str, it helps a lot in getting failure chance down.

# ¿ Jan 8, 2017 00:49

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Dang, just had a great OgSu with a pile of starter books nuked for 60% of his HP by a draconian ghost breathing.

Edit: So, you know, watch out for L:1 for the next few hours.

Also, what vault puts 5+ Trolls onto D9? I barely snuck into lair escaping from that pack

Speleothing fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Jan 8, 2017

# ¿ Jan 8, 2017 18:27

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

I should have said frog, dog

# ¿ Jan 9, 2017 13:44

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

A complete kick in the balls for all casual players, you mean.

Edit: grabbing items from territory you're afraid to explore into. To avoid waking up monsters or because Eels.

# ¿ Jan 10, 2017 01:01

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

brainwrinkle posted:

Wow, I thought PleasingFungus was still a dev. Maybe he quit over ~~High Elves~~Tengu.

I guess that's why we're losing the good wands, HEs, and Ogre M&F apts ACD have to deal with dpeg - because the good dev left.

# ¿ Jan 10, 2017 01:37

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

dpeg posted:

If "luring is not a "problem"", how does the change hurt?

It's not a problem, it's a fundamental strategy around which the game is balanced. The game becomes nigh-unwinnable without the ability to retreat or lure.

quote:

(2) US vs Germany?

Possible, but all the Germans I've met have had a sense of humor.

# ¿ Jan 10, 2017 03:30

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Here's my Malmutate fix:
30% chance for nothing to happen.
40% chance for a BadMut
30% chance for any non-restricted Mut

*Necqoxecs & Shining Eyes get 'Cantrip' added to their spell list.
*Cacodemons get promoted to Tier 1, with a corresponding reduction in spawn frequency.
*OoF have it put on a breath timer.

Speleothing fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Jan 11, 2017

# ¿ Jan 11, 2017 00:41

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Ferrinus posted:

I'm guessing it's viable high level poison magic you disagree with, but the truth is that fully or partially irresistible top level spells for schools which initially had to deal with resistant or immune enemies would be par for the course, and there are at least a few blast templates or other delivery gimmicks which haven't yet been explored by the firestorm/glaciate/tornado/shatter/singularity pentafecta.

Smite-targeted toxic glue. 3x3 area. Irresistible Slow, spellpower based chance to paralyze. Strong poison. Spell failure chance for whole Slow effect duration, even to demons.

# ¿ Jan 11, 2017 02:52

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Floodkiller posted:

Bring back Haste as a level 9 poison spell that fatally poisons you when you cast it, and the effect is cancelled early if the poison is cured. You can't use it if you are immune to poison.

I've also thought about that a lot, but it needs to be lvl7 Poison/Charms at most so it's possible for medium armor hybrids to cast.

Also leaves room for Haste Other as pure Charms at lvl5.

Edit: Would need to bring back Cure Poison as a spell so we can have positive effects that end when the poison is cured without needing to rely on potions.

Speleothing fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Jan 11, 2017

# ¿ Jan 11, 2017 03:23

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Kaedric posted:

Is a +2 bonus to AC/EV/damage really that big of a deal? Only thing that sounds scary is movement. I don't think the change warrants any histrionics just yet.

a) It's just an experimental, one that will hopefully be dropped like an angry snake
b) afaik monsters can be buffed more than once
c) Giving bonus speed to an OOD Troll is more than enough reason to freak the gently caress out
d) If we're lucky this will be dropped like an angry snake and then pointed at for the rest of time when people ask about luring "fixes"

# ¿ Jan 12, 2017 00:41

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Darth Windu posted:

Marijuana is illegal

Maybe where you live it is. Prude.

# ¿ Jan 13, 2017 15:38

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Haifisch posted:

Why don't bacharians ribbit/croak when they shout? Huge oversight imo.

These are the sort of bug reports that matter

# ¿ Jan 15, 2017 04:01

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Araganzar posted:

amnesia . . . And some games they are rarer than acquirement. Put book amnesia back

# ¿ Jan 16, 2017 04:25

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Remove bread before pizza

# ¿ Jan 21, 2017 05:46

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Stealth has always been pretty lovely. If you want to be a stabber, you pretty much need to either have a way to get distractions & confusion, or a powerful fall-back for when they wake up.

# ¿ Jan 24, 2017 01:27

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Personally, I like weapons the way they are.

But if I had to theorize on a different way of doing things, like what you propose, I would make each class of weapon keep its original ability. So all polearms would always reach, and all axes always cleave. Then, when you've trained the "Reaching" or "Cleaving" skill to the proper level, you'd be able to reach and cleave with other weapons. You could include Speed and Damage as skills, also. Though, it would probably be wise to keep stabbing separate, as the Boots of the Assassin repeatedly demonstrate.

Since you don't want these abilities to only trigger sometimes (IE a percentage of attacks), you would need to base the necessary skill level off of the weapon tier, so it'd be low-investment to get a reaching, cleaving, riposte-ing Whip or Falchion, but quite hard to get a Great Mace or Triple Sword to the same level of versatility.

Hilariously, this thought experiment increases the number of hard breakpoints for weapon users.

# ¿ Jan 26, 2017 21:24

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Nuke the initial wave, retreat upstairs, clear Depths for a few levels to let the quadrants calm down again.

# ¿ Jan 29, 2017 05:32

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Brendan Rodgers posted:

Do I switch to Long Blades for face to face fighting now and use my rapier for stabbing still? What level would I get Long Blades to?

Same question, but a +7 Longsword {Slice, Int+7}

Also, what shops does a Spriggan want from Gozag, or should I wait until I've cleared Orc to spend my cash?

# ¿ Feb 3, 2017 18:58

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Prism posted:

The removal of the spell Repel Missiles, or the new ego to replace it that only shows up on scarves? (Scarves are always-ego but 0-AC cloaks. They can also spawn Spirit Shield, replacing the amulet of same.)

Also I guess the Book of Air gets Lightning Spire now, having stolen it from the Book of Sky.

Ugh.gently caress this dumb release.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2017 02:34

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

I can always, always tell the difference in damage taken when I've got rMsl and when I don't.

And I would take Clarity over harm every time. No question.

Speleothing fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Feb 7, 2017

# ¿ Feb 7, 2017 04:38

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Stop making the game harder.

quote:

Trog's big drawback for a dumb melee guy is you sacrifice those low level utility spells that are otherwise "free." They don't just cost the spell levels, they limit equipment and god choices.

Even a plate mail minotaur could get lvl 2/3 charms online. AND THAT WAS A GOOD THING. They are the things you get that make the midgame winnable as a whole bunch of combos.

Stop making the game harder.

Speleothing fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Feb 7, 2017

# ¿ Feb 7, 2017 18:35

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Can we get rMut and Clarity as scarf egos? How many turns does it take to put a scarf on?

# ¿ Feb 7, 2017 20:49

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

IronicDongz posted:

I don't agree with that at all, you didn't usually find HW wands in 3 rune games. By the time you survive long enough to find multiple HW potions you would rarely find a HW wand.

Lies. Pure lies. And lovely lies, at that.

Araganzar posted:

Wand of Teleportation is common as hell. I am throwing extras away most games. I have 4 in my current 1 rune game. And like many players, if I have any heal issues or want more than 3 runes I use acquirement on wands until I get Heal Wounds.

Truth. The Big 3 Wands are necessary. Going into Zot:5 without at least one of them is suicide Only play .19 or earlier if you want to win

# ¿ Feb 8, 2017 05:27

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Stop making the game harder.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2017 05:29

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Add rMut and Malmutate reform to the list of demands. We want both.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2017 16:04

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 16, 2024 01:31

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Nevermind

Speleothing fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Feb 8, 2017

# ¿ Feb 8, 2017 16:19

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

«‹›5 »