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hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.

LordSloth posted:

Is there an open team that plans to hang around in IRC or something like Discord? I'd like to participate, but it's so much more fun if I can bitch with people live or something.

Gonna make a team with a team discord to just hang out and shoot the poo poo. Low pressure team because this tournament is right during the end of the release cycle for my job (and I'm hosting a friend from out of state this first weekend). Only requirement that you hang out in Discord while you're playing because this is a team about complaining.

Sloth, let me know if you want a spot

Slow And Salty
Team captain: hito

1. Jase
2. LordSloth?
3.
4.
5.

hito fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Nov 4, 2016

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hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.

Floodkiller posted:

I'm almost done setting up a general Gooncrawl Discord because I was bored (in the process of turning tiles into emotes at the moment) if you just want to add a channel there. Server/General text channel: https://discord.gg/3JEyRYg

Thanks! I made a channel called "Desolation of Salt". Actually it doesn't need to be team only, it can just be the general voice channel for people who want to vocally complain. Joining the slow and salty team just means you HAVE to be salty


Slow And Salty
Team captain: hito

1. Jase
2. LordSloth?
3. Goodpancakes
4.
5.

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.

Electric Lady posted:

I'll join up here if it's ok. Haven't played in a while. I have one 3-rune victory as MiBe. Might do more of that or try to get a victory as MfIE finally.

e: Oh, and my in-game name is Laurel. Playing on CAO if that matters.

Sorry for the delay (was at a con all day), but yes, you're on!

Slow And Salty
Team captain: hito

1. Jase
2. LordSloth
3. Goodpancakes
4. ElectricLady (Laurel)
5.

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.

Social Studies 3rd Period posted:

yo, throw me in, coach - I will be salty.

about ogres!!!

Alright, you're in, and that's slow and salty filled!

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.
Also there's virtually never a reason to scroll-ID a ring; if you have absolutely no ?RemoveCurse and are worried about a cursed tele ring or something, just keep it in your pocket. Better to save scroll IDs for potions and amulets (which can have some gnarly effects when you remove them). But rings and armor should just be wear-ID'd.

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.
So I splatted some characters I had no business splatting (including one of the luckiest pre-lairs I'd ever had) because my head hasn't been in the right place the last couple of weeks.

I decided to try to make something productive of my failure and see if I could get every level one banner without getting a single level two banner. I pulled it off, but now I'm torn - I want to get a win on the board for my clan, but a win means a level 2 banner...

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.

LogicNinja posted:

Help!

http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/LogicNinja/LogicNinja.txt

I got this Vine Stalker to Depths, but gold dragons are kicking my rear end. The Arc Blade carried me through most of the game but I don't have a lot of good resist gear (despite buying a bajillion shops) and I haven't found any long blades better than a great sword to swap to for damage.

I need to double down on something offensive before it's too late but I'm not sure what it should be. Long blades? Conjurations?

Have you found Agony? With that Necro manual it could do pretty well for you.

Also 10 fighting is pretty darn low for Depths my dude!

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.

taqueso posted:

Decided to try a spriggan assassin and it actually worked out so far. I've never had much luck with stealthy characters. What should I have as a goal right now? My sneakiness seems to be falling off, I haven't been getting too many stab chances lately.

++++++.... seems way too low for a Spriggan with 18 DEX and 15 Stealth. Did the values for how much stealth is in each plus change or something?

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.

Huh, I guess that'd do it. I do enjoy removing secret aptitudes but it seems like Spriggans might deserve the +Stealth mut that Felids have, since unfitting armour seems to be a huge problem even in leather.

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.
I did a crawl LP aimed at beginners a few years ago and it's pretty outdated now so I've started one for .19. Probably people who follow this thread won't get too much out of it, but feel free to shoot me whatever feedback and share it with non-crawlers in your life.

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.
The only saving grace with Lom is that he's the easiest to steal the orb from and run. But yeah he's a nightmare to kill.

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.
So I'm running a stabber of Hep for my YT videos and I just realized I have no idea whether transference wakes up the target. I assume so but it'd be super dope if it didn't because it could be basicially a reverse shadow step. Anyone know one way or the other?

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.
Well, it also depends on the character. Being able to cast in plate is a perk of worshiping Chei or being a Demigod. But yeah, I agree in general that xbows/evocables are a better complement to melee unless you have a huge amount of both STR and INT.

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.

PleasingFungus posted:

1 hp should be enough for anybody

Darren Grey actually did a talk at IRDC 2012 entirely about 1-hp roguelikes and why he thinks they're the best

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.

Heran Bago posted:

At a point where hydras start showing up in the lair, vault guards show up in the dungeon, and the beach is just really hard. I run out of ways to get out of sticky situations and they just get hard to avoid.

Maybe I should watch that tutorial LP in the OP. I don't remember Nethack being this tough.

My .19 Youtube LP is in that area of the game right now, and I try to explain what I'm doing as I go along, so it might be helpful for how to navigate the start of midgame?

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.

Araganzar posted:

I guess I should win all the Dr colors - what works well for Dr these days? Maybe a DrWr with ranged?

DrTm Chei is still really good.The breath weapon does a lot to help get out of the trough between Spider Form + minimal Chei support and Blade Hands + Cheistats.

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.

Araganzar posted:

After that post I found a consumable in my inventory that allowed for a possibility of survival. See if you can guess what it was....

Still in trouble - no heals, no fear, no blinks, had to buy a used teleport wand and recharge it to have tport - but I got that drat rune!

I saw below it was invis, but I wonder if lignification would also do it because AC is so sick against Hydras

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.

Canine Blues Arooo posted:

- Spell Failure chance of 1% and 2% is really stupid. There is nothing interesting there and the player treats it functionally as 'guaranteed to succeed'. When in doesn't, you don't feel like you took a calculated risk, so much as you got bitch-slapped by the dice. There a few solutions to this. A really easy one would be that if spell failure is below a certain threshold of something around 2.5%, it just gets set to 0.

You know, does anything actually break if we just cantrip low level spells at high levels of skill? Like, lets say average skill 12 is enough to make level 1 spells 0% fail and no mana cost. Having Magic Missle for free means I don't need to pillardance all the time and I'm not even convinced it's broken. It just means it's not so gosh darn imperative to have a source of MP channeling.

I don't know how you'd interact cantrips with INT and heavy armor casting penalties, but I feel like breakpoints in the realm of average skill 12/18/23 to cantrip level 1/2/3s would feel pretty wizardly. It does mean hard breakpoints which is against the spirit of Crawl. So maybe instead the system is like "As you improve your spell cast chance on a spell already at 1%, it instead starts giving you chance to cast it for no mana cost. At some breakpoint it becomes 0% mana and the free cast is guaranteed" or something.

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.

Chakan posted:

The first thing that comes to mind with that is hybrids would be a little strange as they're often casting low-level spells by nature. Still, that's certainly a good idea and I think it'd be cool to cast level 3 spells for free at 27 in all relevant schools or something similarly onerous.

Right, but hybrids are also casting at low spell power. They basically just get the failure rate down to something acceptable and then stop training.

The reason I like the idea working this way is that it actually doesn't give any spike power budget - by the time you cantrip a level 1 spell you have way better things you can be doing in an individual turn. It just means that, if you're improving casting skills a lot, you have some every-turn options on par with the weapons that the hybrids are using instead.

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.
Hi Crawl thread, I have a BaSu who's done Orc and is just wrapping up L6 (I did Orc first because Nessos was on L5). I've got 7 spell levels and I'm looking to learn a level 7 Summoning spell.

The problem is...Summon Hydra, Monstrous Menagerie, and Summon Greater Demon don't seem to immediately suggest which ones are good for which situations. Which one should I memorize? I just don't know which factors favor which choices. I've been playing this dude as a bit of an infighter, because it's easy to hang out with my summons until it gets hairy and then hop and blink out. Here's a dump if it helps. He has sick resists so I'm really hoping not to splat this one.

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.

Floodkiller posted:

Flavor builds up eventually and creates an enormous wall of knowledge for newer players to learn. Some removed questions involving redundancy:
-Which of the 5 types of elves are the ones closest to what I actually want to play?
-What is the difference between elvish, orcish, dwarvish, and normal armor and when do I wear a particular type?
-How do I tell apart the two types of bonuses on my weapons, and which of the three types of enchantment scrolls improve the type I want (and why do they sometimes fail)?
-Why would I worship Yred or Ely from an altar when I can start with them at the beginning of the game with more piety?
-How do I train Charms late in the game so that I can actually cast the higher level spells?

Redundancy matters a lot more from a new player perspective than an experienced player, since an experienced player has already learned about it. The experienced player only sees the removal (flavor and mechanics) and not whether it was significantly different enough to be worth the time spent learning.

At times I wonder if there would still be a lot of species removal complaints in particular if the player could set the species name in their rcfile.

Yeah, if you ever get mad about the devs removing stuff fire up a copy of .15 or something and earnestly try to explain it to a friend who's never played. Having done an LP right before they removed item destruction, permanent corrosion, etc., I'm 100% on the removal train.

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.

LordSloth posted:

Nobody's ready for Caustic Shrikes. Except tornado casters.

It's been a while since I've run in Caustic Shrikes, but don't Scattershot wands absolutely clown them?

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.
I agree. It's not worth hyping up Elf TOO much, because it's perfectly safe as long as you kite them out appropriately. But it's also true that Hell/Pan is definitely what you should be comparing it to in terms of when you do it.

I tend to do Elf after first two runes, V1-4, and some of Depths. Around then it's fine. Probably if you're a really loud character like a Qazlal worshipper, you should push it even later because Abyss sucks if you're loud. Otherwise, by then you should be ready for Abyss anyway.

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.
To be fair, Crypt also gives piddling experience and loot, so it's pretty easy to just tune out it even exists and only do it immediately before doing Tomb.

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.
Crawl .20: I blame day drinking more than elf

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.

Heithinn Grasida posted:

I don't find silence any less helpful with Chei than other gods and I often take it even on characters that are more casters than fighters. It works best after you've sucked the enemy into melee anyway, and losing 60% of your offense is still a winning deal when the enemy loses 98% of theirs, especially when you can isolate them and fight in favorable terrain. Honestly, I would probably take silence on any gnoll that ever found it, but I haven't played a gnoll yet, so I'm speaking from a lack of experience. At any rate, silence has a ton of utility and lets you prevent some really bad situations, as long as you're careful enough when using it.

Hard agree. I think a.liches are one of the most dangerous common enemies in Crawl and getting to clown them is pretty much always worth the slots.

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.
Does anyone know where in the Crawl codebase the Hep ability to name your ancestor lives, and where the summoning code is?

It occurs to me that, since you can only have one summon from Summon Canine Familiar at a time, it would be totally possible to name your dog. I don't really know the programming language Crawl is coded in but if I could see the code to summon a dog and the code to name your ancestor I wonder if I could sneak out a copy paste job to add a name dog (a)bility whenever you have the spell memorized.

hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.
What's frustrating is the mutation reform was actually good! Changing cmut and benemut to be the one pot was actually a great change because instead of going all purple being "fun, but bad" it was actually better to juggle around a small set of mutations than to have none. But like IK said, purple chunks as a way to start the mutation train rolling were a key part of it.

I actually am a often-defender of the crawl team because I really do believe in the whole removing unnecessary choices thing. But purple chunks objectively functioned in a different way than mutation potions and the mutation game had a lot more meaningful choice with them than without. This goes against their dev philosophy because now the meaningful choice for mutation potions is clear - you must hoard them exactly the way you used to hoard cMut. Whereas with purple chunks, you could make the choice to try to highroll good mutations with the potions as your fallback, at the expense of having fewer of them to clear malmutations later. It tremendously shifts the balance if you can't START the process by eating purple chunks, and it was even more interesting because chunks rot, so you have to choose QUICKLY.

I don't agree when everyone complains about removing the kitsch because I've done a lot of Crawl LPs and I loving hate explaining poo poo like "Oh, pizza is just another food with a funny name, it doesn't do anything different, vegetarians and carnivores can both eat it because even though the pizza has different cosmetic flavors when you eat, it will always be an appropriate topping for your food mutations". But this was not kitsch, this was a robust subsystem they finally loving got right and then ruined by assuming "gain one random mutation from a time-sensitive source" and " removes 2-6 mutations, adds 1-3 random mutations, and adds 1 good mutation" are so similar as to be redundant. It's like saying that you bought a ten gallon jug of bleach, so you threw away the soap dispensers in the bathroom because there's no point having two things that kill germs.

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hito
Feb 13, 2012

Thank you, kids. By giving us this lift you're giving a lift to every law-abiding citizen in the world.
I had this idea a few versions back but: I think the way to make Poison more interesting is to make it into Blood Magic. So it handles all sorts of chemical changes, not just poison. You can make Regeneration Blood Magic instead of Necromancy, and drop Transmutation from Ignite Poison. And it opens up the theme a lot for new stuff. You could have the Demonspawn Ignite Blood power as a spell, or something like the Witcher Black Blood power (that makes enemies who vamp you take damage). You could have a spell where big spikes of damage give you temp AC because your blood comes out solid. Capstone could just be a higher level Regeneration (with Hellcrawl buff system, this would just be legit as hell instead of annoying).

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