Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

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apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Sultan Tarquin posted:

I wish I had 27 hands so I could flip 27 birds to the 27 head hydra in shoals.

e: calling this for Crawl 0.20's thread title

# ¿ Nov 9, 2016 06:05

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# ¿ May 4, 2024 03:54

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Death's door is great for Zigs because you can usually try to kill the room even if things go south and still have time to abort by blinking outta there in a few turns

# ¿ Nov 12, 2016 05:21

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

I've tried Trolls of Jiyva more than a few times in the past and they're really painful to play if you get an early altar, slimes just eat too many valuable items (unless they changed this behavior recently). Also trolls + slimify is a good combo until you run into nasty enemies immune to it, in which case you better have a plan B, which will usually be expensive because slimes love gobbling up your potential plan B's off-screen.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2016 20:00

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

IronicDongz posted:

ps if there's like, an orc wizard or priest or whatever you don't want who keeps getting recalled before orcs you do want you can always kill them without incurring penance via standing in shallow water, using wand of flame on yourself to make steam, then switching spots with them so they get scalded to death.

This sounds almost cartoonishly uncrawl-like, maybe they should just let you dismiss allies on command

# ¿ Dec 9, 2016 18:12

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

cheetah7071 posted:

So, assuming I want to convert to Jiyva, but there isn't an altar in lair, and I am extremely weak but have rCorr, how impossible is ninjaing the altar on slime 6?

If you're hasted and/or have blink scrolls, the odds aren't *too* terrible, but it entirely depends on monster positioning and whether the altar in the middle is overcrowded (be ready to shout the entire floor towards one side if necessary). Assuming you're a troll, they're pretty easy to rush to Lair at least; it took me 20-30 minutes when I used to try it so you shouldn't worry too much about losing your character.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2016 20:38

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

I play to have fun, and I'm pretty sure I instinctively avoided most temporary buff spells precisely because getting enough benefit out of them also came with a steep annoyance cost. Yes, sometimes you can get by with just casting these buffs every now and then and only when it's strictly necessary, but you're going to have games where you literally only survive by always keeping your temporary buffs online. Some players would rather take the L and start over, others tough it out and deal with the annoyance. I can see how changing stuff like this would rub people the wrong way but it's also pretty clearly within Crawl's overall design philosophy so it shouldn't be a surprise :shrug:

Like, imagine if hexes had no success chance displayed whatsoever and it was optimal to learn the actual odds for hexing an enemy before you cast anything. I didn't do that exactly but I sure as hell checked the crawl wiki for MR values to see if a hex was worth casting. That was already enough for me to lose interest in hexes pretty quickly. When hexes had success rates built-in I had a blast with SpEn for the first time in forever.

e: for the record I'd love to see these buffs come back if there's a good alternative to frequently re-casting things

apple fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Dec 14, 2016

# ¿ Dec 14, 2016 17:39

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

I think a real consideration should be that something like haste, as simple and "bland" as it may be (150% output increase wow!), is attractive because being faster and therefore that much more powerful is fun. Maybe it needs to be more rare or situational, but I don't think there's anything wrong with players being able to haste in and of itself, there's plenty of unrands that fall under "overpowered". Maybe moving it to an unrand would make most people happy?

e: Maybe a rechargeable evokable thingy since that way everyone could use it (unless you're Ru and.. you know)

# ¿ Dec 19, 2016 01:11

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Heithinn Grasida posted:

.. but I think it shows basically my complaint about things like removing singularity, high elves, the crown of eternal torment, or the dragon form / dragon's call synergy.

Coincidentally, I miss all of those (except the dragon stuff, but only because I rarely do summoning spells and haven't tried that in particular).

e:

Fhqwhgads posted:

For an 'easy' combination, I have never ascended a KoBe.

I think being able to engorge yourself easily for berserk was a bigger deal back then because of nausea/sickness, otherwise yeah I'd rather do a Gr or Mi if I wanted it easy :X

apple fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Dec 20, 2016

# ¿ Dec 20, 2016 16:26

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Floodkiller posted:

malmutate stuff

I've said something similar before (though you explained it much better :ohdear:

); stockpiling cure mutation as contingency for receiving any game ending mutation has been *the* strategy for a while.

What I didn't like about rMut removal (and therefore dealing with malmutate) is that while you can opt-in and mutate yourself voluntarily, even if it works out you should expect to lose anything good by the time you're in Zot. I think that's a shame since good mutations, even if they're unambiguously good, provide variation in your character and it can open up different options in terms of what equipment you use or what options you take. As soon as you get hit by one of the top tier bad mutations from a OOF you'll drink cure mutation until it goes away.. along with everything else.

I wouldn't mind as much if the baseline strategy to deal with malmutate changed somehow; at the very least I don't see why voluntary mutation roulette benefits should stay mostly early/mid-game (since right now you should be expecting to get rid of everything by the time you need to deal with OOFs).

# ¿ Dec 21, 2016 19:53

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Yeah, spellcasting apt going from -1 to +2 is a pretty big swing; even if spellcasting is not something you'd always keep on that's still going to mean focusing on other skills a lot more quickly once you get enough spell levels.

e: unless you do a scummy mummy MuFi and just thwack everything instead

# ¿ Dec 22, 2016 07:52

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Yeah my experience with mummy was that you're playing that dangerous early game for a much longer period of time because you're a lovely mummy, but still I got a MuFi win on my belt (with Xomscumming AND Gozag, but eh, I was curious if that would work)

# ¿ Dec 22, 2016 08:22

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

FulsomFrank posted:

Honest question here that occurred to me during a run regarding the rMut removal:

How come rPoison and rCorr exist? Isn't it the same logic that an entire mechanic of the game can be partially mitigated by simple wearing some gear? Correct me if I'm wrong but none of these things guarantee you're totally immune from the effect it just reduces the chance of it triggering, just like rMut did, so why do they persist whereas rMut doesn't? They're all situational tools that you use in certain situations and are necessary for sections of the game and certain branches, just like rMut was necessary for extended.

Note: this is not to be construed as a request to eliminate protection from corrosion and poison in way, shape or form.

Mutations are designed as something for your character to have to some degree and make the game more interesting as a result of the good or bad variations, so rMut takes away a feature in a way. The problem is out course that without rMut you just go to plan B which is to let your mutations exist until they're no longer harmless and then chug cure mutation, which ends up being the same except you're more likely to hold on to harmless mutations instead of outright resisting them. This also is much harder to sustain in extended but that's another story.

Poison and corrosion are just different ways to receive damage and you weigh the cost of resisting vs wearing/using something else.

# ¿ Dec 22, 2016 21:58

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

PleasingFungus posted:

skalds, crusaders, and reavers can all legitimately be described as 'hybrids', imo, but that doesn't really matter. if the people having a discussion are using different definitions of words, it doesn't really matter who's 'right'; not much useful conversation is going on regardless!

I think the discussion can exist and has good points; both parties defined 'hybrid' and sure, their definitions are different but regardless of what you define as 'hybrid', the argument is essentially that "HE and Tengu feel appreciably different to play" (Internet Kraken can correct me on this if this wasn't the point). You can agree or disagree on this, the 'hybrid' bikeshedding doesn't destroy the discussion!

# ¿ Dec 24, 2016 04:53

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

HE being a "bad race" shouldn't be part of the discussion towards removal since balance is supposed to be a minor goal.

e:f,b

On a somewhat related note, I couldn't find the Crawl Philosophy page but I found this gem instead: http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Frustrated_Philosophy

apple fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Jan 8, 2017

# ¿ Jan 8, 2017 09:16

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

This thread got pretty wild, geez.

I haven't played in forever but I'd be thrilled to see a malmut and/or extended rework, though the former seems like it's been sidelined unfortunately (hopefully that's not on the "won't do" list?

)

# ¿ Jan 10, 2017 19:20

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

orphean posted:

I'm new to DCSS and just from the perspective of the platonic clueless newbie that I represent making changes that make 'running away' more dangerous seem like pouring slippery gravel on the slope of an already steep mountain to climb.

I've won a fair amount and knowing when and how to run away from fights is an important skill to learn and is also part of the fun, it'd be affected as part of a luring nerf and this doesn't make sense to me either. It feels like removing a puzzle piece from a jigsaw puzzle that's already fitting properly and replacing it with a different shape. Maybe you like the shape better but it won't fit with the rest of the puzzle unless you change all the surrounding pieces!

I don't have any idea as to how to make this "luring nerf" into a (what I feel like is) good thing or what other changes would be necessary to make it work. There's already OoD monster spawning to disincentivize degenerate play. The only thing I can think of is to give characters an innate "last resort" tool that allows them to retreat from a fight that incurs a penalty that you can't just rest away like XP or stat drain, but this is only if I believed luring is a problem and I'm not convinced. :shrug:

# ¿ Jan 11, 2017 12:10

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Darth Windu posted:

Bedazzled?? The frilled ones (former newts)? Nah I recognize them

Also the dart sluts are cool, good idea to have those to introduce people to ranged attacks before a centaur kills them

What an unfortunate typo

# ¿ Jan 11, 2017 19:15

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Mr. Lobe posted:

It is fun to play crawl as a High Human

# ¿ Jan 12, 2017 22:38

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

LogicNinja posted:

TBQH, most of my ghosts are from earlygame, because earlygame is boring and I play it even faster/less carefully than otherwise.

But yeah, mostly it's from forging full speed ahead relying on conj/fire damage to carry the day, even in risky situations. ("I'm sure ONE MORE IMB+battlesphere blast will kill this efreet, I'm sure he won't fireball me to death... oh well.")

Now that you mention it, this IS one place where I feel luring puts you at an annoying impasse sometimes: you can take a risk and power through some tough enemies or you could pull the enemy away, regenerate a little extra MP and/or health and secure the kill. This can get annoying because early game you're not necessarily weak as much as your options are much more limited (less items, less god abilities, less skill points invested, etc.) and pulling enemies away or retreating constantly takes time and it breaks the normally smooth transition to mid-game where you o-tab or o-"spam fireball" to get to it. OTOH, it's one of the most effective tactics you can use in the absence of other options, and even with since they can save you a lot of piety or valuable consumables.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2017 03:22

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

My favorite is the random tavern poster "mansplaining" Islam to the guy who (presumably) grew up as a Muslim when the topic was initially brought up

# ¿ Jan 19, 2017 17:07

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

IronicDongz posted:

cute dogs>>>>>>>>>elves

You have a point

# ¿ Feb 5, 2017 08:16

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Honestly I never felt like my odds of survival were gimped due to being a deep elf past Lair because somewhere around Lair you start spamming fireballs at edge of LOS with no hunger and little to no MP problems (if you're worshiping Vehumet) which also means you can use that incoming XP to immediately branch out into whatever spell schools you want because you're a deep elf. If I need to gently caress off because something went south I end up using a lot of different things and very rarely is swiftness my best option (even if I have it learned already).

e: Also I find FE start noteworthy for having a LOT of spells that are guaranteed to hit and MP efficient (sticky flame, cloud, fireball), and having guaranteed damage sources makes it a lot easier to finish off enemies and get that MP-on-kill.

apple fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Feb 6, 2017

# ¿ Feb 6, 2017 21:49

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

LogicNinja posted:

(IMHO it's been downhill since rMut got removed--the latest version is the very first time since I started with 0.12 or whatever that I've felt a new version is worse than the previous one. The QoL improvements continue to be amazing, but Goddamn.

I remember when rMut removal was partly justified because it would put malmutate's issues to the forefront

Well, they're still in the forefront..

# ¿ Feb 7, 2017 15:14

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

SKULL.GIF posted:

What do you find to be obfuscated about combat?

To start with: damage dealt, enemy health (and randomized on top of that). Aside from following Conventional Wisdom passed down by veterans it's still not clear at all how to decide on weapons even if your only criteria is DPS (DPAut?). Looking at the base damage + enchantment + accuracy values is really confusing for a new player, and it shows when often times advice for melee characters is some form of "use this harder hitting weapon you silly goose".

I understand it's going to be very difficult to devise a damage system that isn't swingy as hell without breaking combat, but I think there's already a fork (hellcrawl IIRC?) showing damage numbers for just about everything and it's been pretty well received. That would be a good starting point IMO.

apple fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Feb 7, 2017

# ¿ Feb 7, 2017 16:34

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

SKULL.GIF posted:

Stuff

I know this conversation is moving on pretty quick but: did you ask why Araganzar finds combat is obfuscated because you don't think it is obfuscated? Or because you want to know what he sees as obfuscated?

# ¿ Feb 7, 2017 19:41

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

I've said this before and I'll say it again: knowing hex success rates made enchanters fun for me. Generally speaking, knowing more information will lead me to explore more possibilities instead of sticking to what I already know by allowing me to make more informed decisions. If you really want to you can already code dive and/or use fsims to get the information you want for combat but I draw the line at "looking up the wiki every now and then", something which Crawl actually has been increasingly better about since x->v on monsters is so nice.

As far as people who don't understand probability: there's an endless stream of tears in forums for games like XCOM and Darkest Dungeon due to failed 95% rolls where the 5% implies a teamwipe, it just comes with the territory of providing said information. I don't think Crawl is special in that it requires basic information to be purposely hidden for a better experience (I think hellcrawl showing damage numbers is a good example of the opposite, other changes notwithstanding) , worst case by showing this information it should put problems associated with it in the forefront, much like rMut removal and malmutate.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2017 20:50

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Haifisch posted:

I honestly can't tell if they're being sarcastic or not. And does anybody actually use Passwall? If anything, I'd boot it out of the Book of Geomancy & replace it with an actually useful spell.

To be fair conjure flame easily carries you through the early game as long as you can complement it with one of many things (reaching weapon, magic dart, being a human blockade as enemies burn, etc.), even a lot of beefy enemies like hydras will die because they won't give a poo poo about flame clouds so you can kill them by creating a short flaming path ahead of time. It's also insanely MP efficient and doesn't miss.

I don't know about it being the best conjuration spell though, it's still situational for a lot of reasons (you need to have a tile-wide corridor or stubborn monster AI walking into them). It easily has the most direct damage potential for its level, but magic dart + battlesphere is much more versatile for example. For level 3 conjurations there's also mephitic cloud and dazzling spray which let you take on fights way above your paygrade thanks to stabs (and will work in a lot of situations where conjure flame won't save you).

e: Also I don't get the boner for summon imp myself; I use it but by the time I can get better imps consistently I've also settled into other spells :shrug:

apple fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Feb 8, 2017

# ¿ Feb 8, 2017 20:30

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Speleothing posted:

Duvessa is prolific, influential, and nearly always wrong. If they were banned, the Tavern might not suck so much.

What bugs me personally is that he/she tends to speak in absolutes often enough (case in point that entire OP linked earlier) that it makes you wonder if we're even talking about the same game. I've lost count of the times where I've internally disagreed with that person and the ongoing replies and/or flood of thanks makes me wonder if I'm just an idiot or something.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2017 20:54

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

In other news I tried gnollcrawl where you can't gain XP whatsoever and every enemy is a gnoll (sometimes gnoll sergeants) and died after trying to do a Ziggurat, it's pretty easy if you have the patience to kite with a spear wielding CeBe until floorgod turns you into a "15-rune" character but I died to hubris. :saddowns:

# ¿ Feb 8, 2017 23:46

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Floodkiller posted:

Mutation game reform is upon us!

Cure Mut, Benemut, and Mut have been merged into a single potion (with all three weights combining together) into a single potion of mutability. This strips 2-6 mutations, adds 3 random mutations, and adds one positive mutation. If you get mutated, your stuck in the mutation game outside of Zin, but you are much more likely to have the ability to cure yourself of something incredibly awful (although you may replace it with something else awful, but less so). The downside to this for clean freaks is that you must worship Zin to stay completely mundane, as there is no cure all solution anymore. The downside to mut lovers is that you need to eat purple chunks or worship Xom/Jiyva to possibly chance yourself into the higher levels of certain mutations.

At first glance, I like this (although I still dislike the idea of malmutators), as the high spawn rate helps to make sure you don't get shafted by one or two incredibly poor malmutates, but still keeps the fun of having some mutations to play around if you have to quaff. I'll have to try it in action, however, to get a full opinion.

I think handling the mutation game this way sounds fun :swoon:

I'd have to test it but one of the problems of the rMut era for example was that while it was cool to lock in a bunch of good mutations, the mutation game essentially ends and you stop changing. Now it's the opposite where it's in your best interest to stay mundane or mutated with mostly ineffectual mutations until you need to quaff cMut. With the new potion of mutation you can re-roll your mutation set when you need it (or when you want to) because only Jiyva or Zin can keep bad mutations out, but it's an ongoing "mini-game" for as long as malmutate exists.

However

SKULL.GIF posted:

What would a satisfactory reform of Malmutate look like? Removal does not count as reform, by the way.

Darox nailed it, I think it's necessary for current malmutate to be delegated to the rarest/toughest enemies (maybe include a tier-1 demon in extended) and have a different system for the rest: it can (and should be!) quite punishing when making mistakes but these mistakes should involve *more* the tactical choices you make over the course of a fight, not the strategic choices you make prior to edge-of-LOS encounters with malmutators that ideally protect you from instant zaps.

Also hell glow really should go..

"Your body shudders with the release of blah blah.."
"You feel weirdly uncertain" :fuckoff:

But really, I'm happy to hear the mutation game is being looked at once more.

# ¿ Feb 9, 2017 10:44

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Carcer posted:

There's already little incentive to actually fight uniques, you're better of running away from most of them. If some of them got the ability to malmutate it would just reinforce that further.

IDK about that, you should skip fights you cannot win but if you have the resources to power through an early unique they typically give you a substantial XP boost and are well worth it. In extended XP becomes less of an issue though, I'll agree there.

# ¿ Feb 9, 2017 14:39

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

So I 15-runed gnollcrawl, here's something funny:

You're still a level 1 character in hell but hell effects only got nerfed by having gnolls for all the summons. This means damaging hell effects can easily one-shot you if you can't become tanky enough. You need guardian spirit + MP equipment or very lucky drops like amulet of vitality. I got down to 2-3 HP a few times from getting blasted by hell effect stuff

Now to actually play trunk version :toot:

# ¿ Feb 10, 2017 19:30

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Not sure how recent this change is but the max damage values on monster descriptions are really awesome, thank you crawl dev :shobon:

Lots of stupid fights were avoided, seems especially useful early game.

# ¿ Feb 11, 2017 01:23

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

I haven't tried a hybrid character in forever; continued a SpAK from a while back but I'm kinda lost on what to get next. Any suggestions for what to train/learn to deal with depths and eventually Zot? I have a ton of books stashed away so I have almost everything.

http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/bananaken/bananaken.txt

code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.20-a0-633-gff4aa5c (webtiles) character file.

bananaken the Spry (Spriggan Abyssal Knight)       Turns: 81466, Time: 08:09:45

Health: 102/102    AC: 13    Str: 10    XL:     20   Next: 58%
Magic:  39/39      EV: 35    Int: 22    God:    Lugonu [******]
Gold:   1437       SH:  0    Dex: 19    Spells: 12/48 levels left

rFire  + + +      SeeInvis +    n - +2 dagger (drain)
rCold  + + .      Gourm    .    U - +3 robe of the Duke {rF++ Int+3}
rNeg   + . .      Faith    .    (shield restricted)
rPois  +          Spirit   .    S - -2 hat of the Alchemist {rElec rPois rF+ rC+ rN+ MR+ rMut rCorr}
rElec  +          Reflect  .    I - +2 cloak {MR+}
rCorr  +          Harm     .    (gloves unavailable)
rMut   +                        (boots unavailable)
MR     +++++                    (no amulet)
Stlth  ++++++....               z - +4 ring of slaying
Regen  0.3/turn                 B - +5 ring of protection

@: deflect missiles, very quick
A: unfitting armour, iridescent scales 1, see invisible, cold resistance 1,
herbivore 3, speed 3, slow metabolism 2, strong 1
}: 2/15 runes: serpentine, abyssal
a: Depart the Abyss, Bend Space, Banish, Corrupt, Enter the Abyss, Brand Weapon
With Distortion, Renounce Religion


You are on level 3 of the Vaults.
You worship Lugonu.
Lugonu is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 7 branches of the dungeon, and seen 38 of its levels.
You have visited the Abyss 2 times.
You have also visited: Labyrinth, Ice Cave and Volcano.

You have collected 4236 gold pieces.
You have spent 2799 gold pieces at shops.

   Skills:
 + Level 10.0 Fighting
 - Level 9.3 Short Blades
 - Level 7.2 Polearms
 - Level 3.0 Throwing
 + Level 18.2 Dodging
 + Level 15.8 Stealth
   Level 4.4 Shields
 - Level 14.8 Spellcasting
 - Level 7.3 Conjurations
 - Level 15.3 Hexes
 - Level 12.4 Charms
 - Level 6.1 Summonings
 - Level 9.5 Translocations
 - Level 5.4 Ice Magic
 - Level 7.9 Air Magic
 - Level 12.3 Invocations
 - Level 9.0 Evocations


You have 12 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Confuse               Hex            ######..     1%          3    None
b - Magic Dart            Conj           ####         1%          1    None
c - Dazzling Spray        Conj/Hex       ######       1%          3    None
d - Summon Mana Viper     Hex/Summ       ######..     1%          5    ###....
f - Summon Ice Beast      Ice/Summ       #####...     3%          4    None
g - Conjure Flame         Conj/Fire      ####....     2%          3    None
h - Apportation           Tloc           ######       1%          1    None
i - Deflect Missiles      Chrm/Air       ######....   12%         6    #####..
j - Summon Lightning Spi  Summ/Air       #####...     1%          4    None
k - Invisibility          Hex            ######..     1%          6    #####..

# ¿ Feb 11, 2017 19:58

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

I'm on mobile but I raided Elf:3, just did a corrupt right inside the vault. Still need to find acquirement, I'll go for a quick blade of distortion once I find it.

I forgot to grab the Shoals rune lmao

E: I think I skipped a randart lajatang so I'll try that too. I have malign gateway on a book as well.

apple fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Feb 11, 2017

# ¿ Feb 11, 2017 22:49

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Welp, run of depths was going well since I could get Malign Gateway online, but I died to eldritch tentacle because I tabbed enemies behind tentacles as cover and I got paralyzed by it thanks to turning indifferent a lot quicker than usual:

http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/bananaken/morgue-bananaken-20170212-140738.txt

When the eldritch tentacle turns indifferent: can it actually hit you or does it have to be full blown hostile? I thought I could get away with dancing around it as long as it was at least indifferent but maybe I was wrong. Still, it was my first time using the spell and I'd probably do much better with it next time, just need to better understand the requirements for summoning it and positioning myself better so I avoid getting slapped. Kind of annoyed that I rolled a paralyze on the first hit the tentacle got on me though, it was pretty much the only thing that could kill me.

# ¿ Feb 12, 2017 15:32

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

ThermosAquaticus posted:

Sorry for getting you killed

I think it hits you if you are where it wants to move to. I don't think it actively seeks you out or anything. It's best to keep some distance from it.

It's ok, eldritch tentacle was the right call! My XP was spread too thin so the +4 tloc apt was just enough to get a high level spell online, I also couldn't find a suitable weapon/armor combo to be more aggressive with melee. I'll just make sure to keep a safe distance once it's indifferent before it turns into eldritch tickle time again

# ¿ Feb 12, 2017 17:00

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Well I wanted to be more of a hybrid but I guess now I'm a blaster mage *and* a hybrid

# ¿ Feb 12, 2017 22:44

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

I kinda wish armor decisions were easier to make with hybrid characters; it's a big investment as it is to decide to level up strength (following that encumbrance = str rule of thumb), but I also need to know roughly how much armor skill I also need so that spell success chance isn't ruined. Is there "conventional wisdom" for these type of characters beyond matching encumbrance rating with strength, like the amount of armor skill you want?

# ¿ Feb 13, 2017 00:32

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# ¿ May 4, 2024 03:54

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Microcline posted:

Ok that's good to know! And yeah this kinda confirms that, well, you just have to be in the know to make better decisions when allocating your XP and stat points. Not a problem once you've seen the math, at least.

# ¿ Feb 13, 2017 03:53

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

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