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negromancer posted:Right here in my bookmarks! I just read this whole thing while watching Game Change on HBO and holy gently caress does that shake you to the core about this country. I really can't understand the mindset that just because the "original sin" happened in the past somehow modern beneficiaries of it (whites) don't owe anything to the victims. If I murdered your family and stole all their stuff and became a billionaire off of my takings, you an sure as poo poo best that your kids can sue my kids for the harm. Why does a couple extra generations removed make a difference? Can white americans literally not handle feeling bad about their ancestors' choices for 5 seconds? The Oldest Man posted:I suppose I was thinking of a debt-pricing approach. I'm curious if anyone has done the math on what the inflation and interest-adjusted value of slavery is/was over its lifetime existence in the US. I think this is a fruitless way to approach the issue because the question isn't "how do we pay back black people for the literal price their ancestors were bought and sold for?", the question is "How do we repair the extreme damage wrought by 400 years of slavery, segregation, and discrimination?" and the answer to that question has very little to do with whatever price tag you could attach to the institution of slavery as practiced in the US. Jonas Albrecht posted:Aren't there a ton of corporations still around today that benefitted from slave labor? Surely they can find a way to help as well. If you read to the end of the article above, you'll see that plenty of such corporations are still around (Aetna sold insurance policies on slaves) and lawsuits against them have failed repeatedly. They're not gonna help out of the kindness of their hearts. When the gently caress has that ever happened? I'm a nice sympathetic white(-looking) trans lady and I can't even get our insurance to cover SRS or in-vitro fertilization, two things that are absolutely critical to my immediate circumstances because it would cost them 5 cents extra out of their quarterly bottom line. There's certainly more on the line for a company like that in acknowledging the total of their contributions to the systemic destruction of black lives and opportunities for hundreds of years. Corporations won't do poo poo until the government makes them, and the government won't do poo poo until white americans actually internalize the idea that they have benefited from a game that was not only stacked in their favor, but had a No Coloreds sign hung over the table until last week.
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Nov 8, 2016 04:41
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Mind over Matter posted:Can you/someone explain this to me or direct me to an explanation? I know nothing but the name and I had no idea there was something racially charged when I saw people bringing it up. A black baby fell into a gorilla enclosure and they shot the gorilla because they couldn't guarantee they could get to the baby before the gorilla noticed it, because in a "pick one" situation the human life is more important than the gorilla's life. Then a lot of people got really mad that they "murdered" an innocent gorilla to save a baby who was lost by an "irresponsible mother" and all these coded words started getting thrown around and eventually it spawned this alt right "dicks out for harambe" thing. But the core of the issue is basically that these people think they should have let the baby die instead of the gorilla because it's that terrible mother's fault that the baby was in the cage. Cuz, you know, only black moms lose track of their kids at the zoo. No white child has ever zoomed around like a cracked out ping pong ball trying to see every aminal possible.
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Nov 8, 2016 16:23
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Race Realists posted:
There is a streak of fundamentalist christian homophobia and toxic masculinity in the black community that sometimes manifests as violence against queer people. It wasn't a hard sentence to parse my dude.
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Nov 8, 2016 16:24
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Race Realists posted:Sorry, should've been more specific. The part about black women being the most undesirable Go look at #WhiteGirlWednesday or #WhiteGirlsDoItBetter. Black men very frequently treat black women as less desirable than white women. The reasons for this are super complicated and I will leave it to better posters than me to go into, but black men have internalized societal dislike of black women's appearance quite a bit. Mel Mudkiper posted:I come from poor as gently caress rural Appalachia though and literally all of those things also apply to white homophobia. Pennsyltucky is a vastly majority white community but because its poor and isolated it also struggles with hypermasculinity, religion, low marriage rates, and outsider paranoia. I wonder how fair it is to consider it a "black" problem when it seems to be universal to any isolated and impoverished community. To me, the difference is in circumstances. Queer people of color are already way more marginalized simply by their racial heritage, and then in turn their queer identities marginalize them from their already marginal community. So the white world hates them, and the black world hates them, so there's basically no one to turn to. So the difference is in outcomes. Violence against queer POC is so much higher than violence against white queer people. Ditto the number of queer people in sex work. Ditto the number of queer people in jails, etc. I agree that it would be unfair to say "black homophobia is worse than white homophobia". I think the issue is more "the results of black homophobia are worse than the results of white homophobia". When you couple that with the pressure to be extremely masculine within poorer black communities, it's natural that violence is inflicted on those who don't attempt to fit into that framework. And unlike a poor white queer person, who might have access to at least some resources to help them leave their situation, black queer people often find themselves unable to leave the community that is rejecting them. See my example in the mysoginoir thread about people just assuming all black transwomen are prostitutes. Good luck getting a job even at McDonald's when that's the stigma you walk in with.
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Nov 8, 2016 17:22
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Mel Mudkiper posted:That's fair. As I've said before, I think one of the reasons I am reluctant to want to make the distinction is because of how I have seen the white community use it as a weapon. I get that, but that's really a criticism of the white community and distinct from the problems within the black community. Both problems need to be addressed, but I think trying to say that white homophobia and black homophobia are the same erases the experiences of queer people of color. As I said in the misogynoir thread, I pass for white and definitely experience way fewer problems than my black trans friends, even from their own families. I have seen people's families say poo poo about them right in front of me that they would never say about me. It's a special kind of thing, where black families have a specific mold they expect their children to try to grow into, and if you break that mold there's a special level of rejection to go with it. And part of that is absolutely the legacy of racism ("don't try to break the mold, you're only bringing negative attention to us") and part of it is the particular flavors of of christianity practiced in the black community and part of it is the geographic locations of majority black communities, and part of it is poverty and so on. It's loving complicated.
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Nov 8, 2016 17:45
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Darko posted:Attraction to that degree is based more on experience than anything else, and black men are naturally more attracted to black women than anyone else because they grow up around them, in general, and thus have more positive points of relation to them than other people do. While they have the same media as everyone else that tells them white is the best (outside of the subservient Asian exotics!), this is at least somewhat offset by growing up and having enough positive relationships with black women to relate more good things to their looks than the norm. I agree with all of this.
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Nov 8, 2016 17:51
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blackguy32 posted:Not only that but there is the whole thing about how America was willing to be outraged at the death of the gorilla, but when innocent black people are shot and killed, they don't make a loving sound. It got to the point where a university had to ask people to stop literally waving their exposed dicks at the "Harambe Hall" dormitory, which was an exclusively black dorm that had had that name for 20+ years.
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Nov 8, 2016 19:15
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Koalas March posted:My aunt is totally one of this people, it drives me crazy. I get what you're saying, but this phrasing makes me extremely uncomfortable. Like you're listing off conquests or trophies or something.
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Nov 8, 2016 19:36
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botany posted:Pretty sure that's just straight up misogyny. Asian women tend to be smaller than white women on average and have a reputation for being demure and obedient. Pretty much every guy I've ever met who was a little too into Asian women was just a huge rear end in a top hat about women and basically wanted a real doll for a girlfriend. It's Orientalism. Asian women are the ultimate exotic creature because they speak some mysterious other language, and our society loves to pin all these weird stereotypes on them about how they're good homemakers, dedicated wives, etc. I mean, look at this poo poo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_bGjxVQS-4
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Nov 8, 2016 19:38
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botany posted:
Commercials for that poo poo air all the time here. It's so gross. Commercials for anastasiadate air a lot too, though I can't find the particular one on youtube this whole channel should give you an idea of how grossly American men stereotype women from Asia and Eastern Europe: youtube.com/user/anastasiadate
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Nov 8, 2016 19:48
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what the gently caress
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:The kid was 4, iirc, and a big thing the internet harped on was that he had allegedly told his mother "I want to go in the gorilla cage" earlier that day. So a lot of childless nerds waved that around as damning evidence because they have no idea how much random poo poo kids that age say literally every moment they're awake. Also the mother committed the terrible sin of having multiple children. I bet she was on welfare too! (a thing I have actually heard).
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Nov 8, 2016 19:56
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Talmonis posted:I've always worried that it was the "white guys have small dicks" stereotype. Speaking of which, (and if you want, I'll just delete the question) how much do you guys have to deal with the reverse of that? Step back for a moment, and consider the fact that you have just purported that penis size is a primary factor in why women choose their partners. Ruminate on that for a little bit, and then decide how you want to proceed with this inquiry.
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Nov 8, 2016 20:01
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Talmonis posted:Body image issues are a common reason for low confidence, particularly in dating. If it sounds like I'm saying that it's a primary factor, that's not what I intended and I apologize if I was offensive. But, I do think it's something people think about when considering dating someone for the first time. People are shallow, men and women both. You 100% do not understand women at all. I suspect you don't understand most men either.
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Nov 8, 2016 20:09
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Talmonis posted:My general assumption was that most people were terrible that way. If it's mostly just men, that's...better? Not really I guess. I mean hell it doesn't even matter, as I'm happily married and all, but sometimes the mind wanders in strange ways. This is genuine advice: you simultaneously think way too much and also not enough. You clearly get into neurotic internal questioning cycles but don't spend a lot of time thinking about how the things that makes you say will sound to other people. My advice is to chill out a bit and stop thinking so hard about how other people are thinking of you. And, again, I'm literally saying this as a 6'4" transgender woman, so you can rest assured that a lot of people are staring at and thinking things about me everywhere I go. It's important not to get too deep into your own head.
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Nov 8, 2016 20:24
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as gently caress.
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Barudak posted:Bay Once lol. White people claiming not to "get" "black names" is one of my favorite things. Especially when they're just deliberately obtuse. I know a guy who will literally insist on pronouncing names like "D'Anthony" as "Dan-thony" and it's like, what the gently caress point are you even trying to make? Sorry that black people aren't mired in conventional thinking when it comes to names, skyler aidyn jones.
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Nov 8, 2016 20:38
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negromancer posted:But if you show them some Polish name with 6 z's and no vowels, somehow they pronounce it perfectly. True story, my wife's family's last name has a soft J and a hard W and nobody ever fucks it up. My name has a "ks" instead of an "x" and people gently caress it up constantly. PT6A posted:Crazy white people, saying names they way they're spelled...? This is a lovely argument even if you're arguing for some sort of classical pronunciation, because lots of italian-americans with names like "D'amato" also pronounce the "D'" as "dee". And the whole point is that white people tend to get really prescriptivist when talking about black names, like it's disrespectful that they've diverged from the approved names list.
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Nov 8, 2016 20:55
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PT6A posted:Yeah, but you really can't fault people for making the wrong assumption either way, can you? No, not really. Because almost every single black person with a D' in front of their names pronounces it as "dee". Like, all you have to do is have a passing interest in football or basketball (which like 1000000% of white people do) to have heard these names pronounced correctly a million times. Or you just have to know an italian person, who also pronounce their poo poo that way. The only people pronouncing D' as having no inflection to it at all are loving french speakers. You're one of those fuckers who call the Goa'uld "goulds" aren't you?
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Nov 8, 2016 21:00
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^^^Chris Judge was so underrated as an actor and it's sad he hasn't done much of note since. He took the lame scifi stereotype of "big black and surly" and really did something new and interesting with it.Baronjutter posted:I feel like it's a bit unfair to make fun of people with terrible names because it really wasn't their choice. Shame the parents some how, but the poor kid has to live with it or adopt their middle name or some poo poo. Exactly. It's just a more subtle form of lame "Oranjello" style jokes. If you genuinely don't know how to say a name and you were being a non-fake-rear end person, you'd just ask the person/people around you how to pronounce the name. You will see white people ask foreigners how to pronounce their names all the time (and making sure you get a foreign person's name right is typically scene as respectful and upstanding). Why are "black names" the only ones where it's like "you used letters differently from how I expected, your name is wrong rargghg". Like, how do you pronounce the following names: 1)Patrice 2)Shanice 3)Azubakay (gently caress, this one is straight up phoenetic and the guy from my previous story still pronounced it wrong to this person's face) 4)D'metrius This guy I am forced to socialize will 100% assured get these wrong every time, no matter how much he's corrected on names exactly like those. Hell, Azubakay is literally from Ghana but moved here as a kid and has no accent, so somehow he didn't even get the "foreign guy" courtesy.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:12
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negromancer posted:Now this is something I'm posting from pure ignorance, but it is something I've noticed. I work in tech so I have a lot of Chinese and Indian coworkers, and what they tell me is that if white people can pronounce your name and you look "presentable (e.g., dressed like a white person) then people will more or less just treat you like any other person. For a black person, changing your name isn't going to make you any less black and it's blackness that whites react to. Being dicks about names is just one of many tools in the toolbox of hate.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:16
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Baronjutter posted:To be fair to some sheltered people, some names are a bit unintuitive to pronounce and if you've grown up only exposed to a certain stock of names, new ones can throw you for a loop. I had a friend named Sean and a friend named Liam in school and teachers would constantly get them wrong. "See-an?" "Lie-am?". God drat my friend "Bonnar" had it a bit rough too. And unless you know the name, Siobhan is never going to be said correctly. "Show-bahn". God drat, it's like Sinead O'connor never existed. But Sean Bean's name should absolutely rhyme and gently caress his parents for doing that to us.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:16
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Voyager I posted:Speaking as a white dude who has trouble pronouncing names correctly, what's the appropriate way to handle the situation? Generally in these situations I'll acknowledge that I'm probably going to gently caress up the pronunciation at first and apologize in advance for doing so. Just ask. Just say "Hey, how do you pronounce your name?". It's their name, they can tell you. They will appreciate you making the effort. Telling someone you're going to gently caress up their name without asking how to say it just comes off as them not being important enough for you to pause your talking for 5 seconds to ask them.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:18
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Tarezax posted:Exception to this among East Asians is Japanese people because their names are much easier to pronounce for English-speaking people. I don't think this is exclusively true. One of my coworker's actual names is Shunsuke but he goes by "Peter" professionally. He's older though, so maybe there's a generational difference with that?
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Nov 8, 2016 21:20
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Voyager I posted:Oh, yeah, that's always the first step. What I'm saying is that I'm got the White Substitute problem that TBS mentioned on the previous page and even after they say it for me I'm probably not going to be able to pronounce it correctly. Yeah, pretty much. If you don't seem like you're being a dick about it people probably aren't going to get mad at you.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:23
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woke wedding drone posted:Black women matchmakers are no authority on anything but self-aggrandizement. Matchmakers in general seem to be lovely people who operate on stereotypes.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:24
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Tarezax posted:I've seen some of my East and Southeast Asian immigrant peers keep their original given names. They tend to be ones that are easier to pronounce, I suppose. On the other hand my dad never took an English name and his name is fairly difficult to get right, so in the end it's a personal choice. I had a friend suspended from middle school once because he signed the study hall checkin with the kanji representation of his name and the teacher thought he was being disrespectful. That was actually probably the first time I realized that there was racism against people other than black people. See also the statistics about rejection of resumes with names that don't "seem white". Wow is our society hung up on names.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:45
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McCloud posted:I know this means poo poo, but I have always appreciated your posts in CineD, especially on BvS. You're one of my favorite posters. Sending virtual hugs your way. Let me tell you about log cabin republicans... gay white men have been basically fine with most of white america for a long time and they straight up do not give a gently caress about the rest of the queer community except when the queer community can help them get something they want. they got marriage equality, so now it's straight back to voting republican so that they can get tax breaks on their "we're two white men" income.
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Nov 9, 2016 16:37
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LunarShadow posted:I don't remember if it was here or the misogynoir thread that mentioned that white-trans folk tend to have an easier time of things than trans PoC, but goddamn white privilege/fragility is a hell of a drug. I had to recuse myself from facebook cause i found out that a sizeable number of my white trans acquaintances openly supported Trump because he was the anti-establishment candidate and they were salty about Bernie and because Hillary was focusing on racial minorities (apparently ignoring the fact that in addition to those people, Trump would be awful for trans folk too). Just so loving pissed that they were so willing to throw Trans PoC under the bus like that, even if it was to be expected cause holy poo poo gently caress white supremacy. Between that and all the poo poo heads coming out castigating the Dems for not coddling white racists fee fees has me all kinds of salty, which is not mixing well with the existential dread and horror. how in the sweet gently caress did any trans person vote to make MIKE PENCE the vice president? he who wants to electrocute the queer out of them? gently caress this entire earth.
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Nov 9, 2016 16:38
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Koalas March posted:Go ahead and ask about racism in the gay community. Seriously. please. For real, for loving real. I have never met an interracial queer couple in the entire time I've been out. It's like you can cross one boundary or the other, but not both.
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Nov 9, 2016 17:20
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Control Volume posted:Show me a gay person who voted for trump nearby me and I will tell them that they are complete idiots, just real dumb, in person tho I already said, Log Cabin Republicans. They loving endorsed trump. They are rich white gay dudes who are insulated by their money and do not give a gently caress about anything but their taxes. They are completely insulated from any consequences of this election because they are rich (because they are two white dudes).
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Nov 9, 2016 17:27
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FactsAreUseless posted:It's the post. That message is wildly dated and for some reason has never been changed. The report system - hell, the moderation system as a whole - is a patchwork of barely-functioning code that Radium tacked onto vBulletin and that ZDR has desperately tried to stop from collapsing. fyi you're only allowed to report like 5 posts per day or something, because for a time I was trying to report every transphobic post I saw and after 4-6 you just get a message saying "you've complained enough today". That means to report every bad post (which is essentially what you're saying we need to do since you can't keep up with threads), we have to PM multiple mods for every single one. That's kinda hosed up.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:16
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With the wave of black- and queer-bashing going on already, I'm actually starting to consider getting a concealed carry permit despite my liberal-as-fuckness. I used to just rely on my ability to beat people up to stay safe, but it's been 5 years and a lot of anti-androgens since my last MMA fight and I don't know if I can physically put up that much resistance to a full-sized hillbilly anymore.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:20
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FactsAreUseless posted:The effectiveness of guns for personal defense is pretty debatable, just looking at the statistics, but that's looking at the population as a whole. (And when I say "debatable" I really do mean "up for debate." Good gun stats are hard to come by.) I don't know if it's been studied for minority populations, specifically, which might be different. Of course, it's hard to deny the symbolic or psychological importance of carrying a weapon. But keep in mind that most handgun deaths are self-inflicted, so if you have a history of suicidal thoughts, keep that in mind. It still might be something worth considering, especially if you know you can't count on police protection, and someone with more experience with guns could speak to it. Maybe TFR? Nah, I defy the trans stereotypes pretty hard and have never had suicide/depression issues at all. I just always depended on the fact that I could violently beat people up to keep me safe and the things I'm hearing about make me feel like I can't trust my fists anymore. I've been followed a couple times to day and I do not like how scared and helpless it made me feel. I've never felt that before.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:48
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negromancer posted:I can hit 26/30 on target dual wielding 2 M9 Barettas at 25 yards. lol, I'll be fine then. I had 14 knockouts as an amateur boxer and 6 as an amateur mma fighter. I've been doing that poo poo since I was in high school.
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Nov 10, 2016 22:43
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HotCanadianChick posted:Not really. What would have taken intestinal fortitude would have been attempting to live with myself had I not called them out on their bullshit and stood up for common goddamn decency and respect for PoC. It was actually a pretty easy decision for me. My big fear is dealing with coworkers. There's at least one I know I'm going to have to see at our team lunch today who I know voted straight republican. It's nice to be principled, but also as a trans woman I'd like to not lose my very good job because I hurt the racist's feelings. It's a lovely situation to be in.
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Nov 11, 2016 17:27
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teen witch posted:I don't think they're here on a goodwill mission I'm trying so hard to not sink into depression, but it's hard. Half my ancestors lived on reservations or were forced to navigate a world of "No Coloreds" signs while the other half of my ancestors lived large on their privilege. This was an internal conflict that I have wrestled with for a long time, but I didn't think I'd ever see the day that we'd actually go back to that type of society. Except this time, they want to add a "No Faggots" sign next to the "No Coloreds". I just don't even know how to start coping with that, and there's still a bunch of people that I'm just not talking to because I know I'd say to them exactly what I just said in this post and I would lose my job for doing it.
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Nov 14, 2016 16:50
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have been big helps.
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I wear whatever brand is making size 15 women's shoes when my old pairs wear out. It's troubling that New Balance's marketing guy is a Trumper, but OTOH it seems like one of the best things you can do to try to fix our society is to buy poo poo that is made in the USA. The more jobs there are here, the less ground conservatives have to stand on when claiming that liberals and minorities are destroying the economy. It's an interesting question though: how does one try to function ethically in the American marketplace (I know, no ethical consumption under capitalism)? If we boycotted every company that had racists or sexists in management, we'd just have to grow all our own food and make all our own clothes and walk everywhere. How does one punish companies with racist leadership without just totally exiting modern society?
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Nov 17, 2016 19:39
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botany posted:
Sure, but maybe it would shut up all the liberals who keep telling me "they voted for Trump because they're scared about the economy, not because they hate gays and blacks".
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Nov 17, 2016 21:49
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were you not around for the Benghazi Spectacular 2000? It doesn't matter if you have any ground to stand on, all that matters is how much penetration your message gets.
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Lightning Knight posted:We didn't lose because liberals went Trump, we lost because a lot of them just straight up stayed home. Also a lot of college educated suburbanites and white women in particular didn't show up or flipped. The election can't just be pinned on poor white people, it's the suburbanites who knew what they were voting for and did it anyway because tax cuts that deserve most to burn. no, I think I'm not articulating myself here. I am trans, black, and native american. I am scared shitless. And all these liberals I know keep trying to spin bullshit like "don't worry, the people who voted for Trump are scared about the economy, they don't don't really want to electrocute the queer out of you". And no matter how many times I try to explain to them to shut up and listen to the minority, they just want to trample all over me with "The problem is that the two side just won't talk to each other." Maybe if the economy was good and the racists were still racist these loving dipshit white liberals could get off their high horse for a second and realize that half of america isn't just being deceived by the Republicans, half of America really is just a bunch of racist, misogynist, homophobic, transphobic shitheads.
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Nov 17, 2016 23:21
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FactsAreUseless posted:Can you expand a little on being black and Native American sometime? That seems like a very interesting experience. I have native friends, but the rest of their family is white. I don't have a lot interesting to say. I never met my dad (who is half black and half blackfoot indian), and my mom had me in college. When the school tried to route me into their lower-achieving preschool based on my racial demographics, she flipped out and told me I can't tell people I'm not 100% white anymore, then got me into a better preschool (where I had experiences similar to a lot of folks ITT where I got bored really quickly and started trouble a lot, so they diagnosed me with asperger's and ADD). I pass, for the most part, as white, so my version of the black and native experience in America is the one where whiteness stole my opportunity to have any connection to my heritage. I understand why my mom did things the way she did (my dad was schizophrenic and a repeat felon), but I know nothing about my heritage and was basically raised "as a white person", so any of my connections to black culture are me actively seeking out connections as an adult. There are like no blackfoots in my state so I have no real way to connect with the tribe (and also my dad isn't on my birth certificate so I can't even prove blood quantum for tribal membership anyway). So I've mostly stumbled through life mostly being treated as white and enjoying the advantages of that, while simultaneously feeling a sense of guilt and loss over the parts of myself I know nothing about. And occasionally a really dedicated racist notices my less-white features and starts yelling racial slurs. Basically, turboracists and other black people are the only people who ever notice I'm black without me saying anything. And after typing all that, I realize that my experience is actually somewhat common among the black community at large, in that well-to-do black families or white families that adopt black children frequently try really hard to cut their kids off from their roots so they can assimilate into white culture. My so my black/native american experience is basically a loss of self.
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Nov 18, 2016 16:46
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Dexo posted:
I genuinely believe that Kanye started out doing a Kaufman-esque weirdo act just to bring attention to himself and at some point lost his grip on reality and is just completely taken over by the character. The canonical example to me was when he was meeting some famous director in a hotel bar and he allegedly shouted "look what I can do!", laid down on the floor, and then spent the rest of the conversation moving back and forth between his seat and laying on the floor.
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Nov 18, 2016 17:01
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Kanye is generally hated more by young black people than young white people. Since like at least 2012....I mean old white people hate all black people and rappity rappers. but Kanye's rep isn't so hot with black people these days.