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Relevant *gif of homer fading into bush*
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Nov 8, 2016 02:03
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gfsincere I wasn't paying attention when you joined and I was largely in the wilderness politically during the formative years of BLM. I literally heard about the Ferguson case during a class I was taking at the time that used it as an example of an issue to write an essay about months after the fact. So I would like to respectfully ask you, should you have time, to at some point write up a post about your personal experience as a Legit BLM Activist Man (superhero name, patent pending).
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Nov 8, 2016 02:06
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Mel Mudkiper posted:As a white person, my perspective is: People are selfish and white people are in power. Even the most progressive white person is going to be selfishly biased to protecting their privilege because of that. Limiting the possibilities of racial justice to what white people are willing to give up is never going to be a good idea. If white people were not forced to change we would still be somewhere between chattel slavery and Jim Crow. Addendum: Black people don't have to convince white people reparations are a good idea. They have to convince a moderate amount of white people and Hispanic people, and shifting American demographics favor the possibility in the future. We don't have to buy into Republican framing and we don't have to work out every solution in the context of "would the Republicans accept this if we did it this way?" The answer is no, because they're petulant children and who gives a poo poo what they think? The days of the regressive shitheel vice grip on American government are numbered.
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Nov 8, 2016 02:24
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Koalas March posted:I don't think we could convince a lot of hispanics honestly. There's a whole lot of colorism among latin@s (about a third of my family, although not myself is from El Savador so I'm speaking using my experiences with them and others) and a lot of people feel like they also got hosed over by white people, can be hugely racist against black people and dark skinned poc of any kind and would resist a lot on the basis of "Well we didn't do chattel slavery in the US, so why should our tax money go there?" This is absolutely not just your family, my dad's side is from Mexico and he, his brother, and his mom are varying degrees of racist against pretty much everybody else. That said, almost everyone in my generation (third) didn't follow, so I am optimistic about younger generations of Hispanics being less lovely, if not necessarily amazing. Like I'm not saying we're going to get full reparations now when the time comes for demographic shift, but we won't get anything if we (meaning white liberals) don't fight alongside black people for it.
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Nov 8, 2016 02:35
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negromancer posted:At least let us not pay taxes and our kids not pay taxes, and their kids not pay taxes. I asked you about this another time and you mentioned home ownership, and imo from an econ perspective home ownership would be a safer investment than tax free income. Tax free income would wildly fluctuate in usefulness depending if you're actually employed and how much you make, etc., whereas working aggressively to get black people their own nice homes that they own and don't have to answer to banks or the government for would go a long way towards securing long-term prosperity for black families. We could do both, mind you, I'm just saying that if we had to boil it down to like pick two and that's it, a quality education and a nice home to live in would be my picks to secure long term economic prospects for any family from a policy perspective. This comes with the fringe benefit that it's easier to frame "home ownership and education!" in positive American Dream terms than "no taxes!" when most of the country already doesn't believe black people pay taxes as it is, though that's tertiary at best.
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Nov 8, 2016 03:04
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negromancer posted:I can see that. Oh that's fair, I was just making an observation. I am of the mind that we should come at reparations more as a matter of trying to help black people now, because no amount of money or things can make up for the blood, sweat, and tears of millions of dead slaves and former slaves we let fall through the cracks in the formation of this country. Also, semi-related, I'm also thinking in terms of stimulus policy, which reparations would actually be super awesome stimulus policy, and in general stimulus policy works better when managed in concrete terms of "get people to buy or use x" instead of throwing out free money in the form of tax breaks because it's easier to direct that way and ensures that people benefit from it. I would also argue that poor people would benefit more from home ownership than low taxes when they probably don't pay that much in taxes as it is, at least in terms of federal taxes.
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Nov 8, 2016 03:10
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The Oldest Man posted:Can you put a rough dollar value on this in today's dollars? I'm going to assume you meant a rough dollar value in terms of realistic modern reparations and give you an actual serious answer, and I would guess we could spend something on the order of 50 to 200 billion dollars on a broad program of black education, homeownership, job programs, decriminalization, and other myriad programs, and probably make a sizeable dent in black poverty without breaking the bank. That's relatively speaking a lot of money, but it's not some absurdly huge amount the US Government couldn't afford. For a frame of reference, that would be the equivalent of five to twenty aircraft carriers. We don't need more aircraft carriers. We need black people to have a future they can believe in. Edit: For the sake of clarity, by "decriminalization," I mean the process of getting non-violent offenders and victims of three strikes/mandatory minimums, etc., etc., out of the system and reintegrated into society.
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Nov 8, 2016 03:36
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The Oldest Man posted:I suppose I was thinking of a debt-pricing approach. I'm curious if anyone has done the math on what the inflation and interest-adjusted value of slavery is/was over its lifetime existence in the US. Oh. I'm kind of drunk right now but if I recall correctly at the point of the Civil War the "property" value of slaves was literally more than the land value of the country at the time so whatever it is it's probably astronomical. edit: quote:Regarding reparations, I think one of the biggest obstacles is the absurd attachment that people have to their tax dollars, even after they've sent their tax money to the government. People in general are incapable of comprehending the idea that it stops being "your" money once it goes to someone else. It's the same dumb logic that causes religious people to get mad at funding for birth control.
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Nov 8, 2016 03:47
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biracial bear for uncut posted:I think that reparations number is lowballing. I mean it's totally lowballing, we should be spending trillions on alleviating poverty in general and compressing wealth inequality. We'd need a study to know how much we should truly spend on reparations but certain jackasses in Congress are blocking it. Assholes.
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Nov 8, 2016 03:50
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Trabisnikof posted:For another context, we will spend an additional $400B on veterans benefits from Iraq alone. That's not even the actual cost of that war. Just the increase in Vet benefits. drat really? I was hella lowballing wow. Yeah gently caress it let's spend a trillion dollars on reparations. http://www.nber.org/chapters/c0606.pdf https://www.measuringworth.com/slavery.php Here are two economic studies, the first from 1962 and the second from 2011, on how much slavery might have been worth in contemporary money. This was from just Googling it and I'm drunk so take it with a grain of salt, but make of it what you will.
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Nov 8, 2016 03:56
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Mind over Matter posted:Thank you for this explanation. I had heard about the gorilla thing in passing, but did not know the child was black or that so much sprung up around it. I had no idea that dicks out for Harambe was an alt-right thing, but I am glad to be educated on it. This was also me. Realizing the kid was black makes the whole thing way more  re: memes. I remember just being sad they had to kill a zoo animal that didn't do anything. I feel bad now. 
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Nov 8, 2016 19:53
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FYI conservative posters now feel bold enough to just straight up use racial slurs now so be prepared for that.
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Nov 9, 2016 19:31
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The Shortest Path posted:He got a 31 day probie, thankfully. My point was more so that it's going to happen now. The MAGA people are all out of the woodwork here.
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Nov 9, 2016 19:33
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FactsAreUseless posted:I know "please report" isn't a great response, but I'm serious when I say that threads are moving super fast right now. Please PM someone, or multiple someones, and report as well, or w/e. Just give the mod/admin team a heads-up, otherwise we will not be able to keep up with them. I sent exmarx a message on slack and I posted in a QCS thread but I don't have PMs. I was going to buy them after the election but that's now my don't get banned money. 
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Nov 9, 2016 19:39
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xthetenth posted:Same name on steam skype and discord and no problems being a slush fund for good posters, just in case. I am immensely flattered but I shall hear my credit card debt with honor.
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Nov 9, 2016 19:46
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I like my red text. It's non-offensive and I'm happy somebody thought I'm annoying enough about progressivism they gave me a silly anime avatar. Negromancer are you actually moving to Africa? Sincere question.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:07
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negromancer posted:Absolutely. I planned on doing it in 10 years and "semi-retiring", as in only working freelance and doing IT infrastructure work for the Senegalese government, but poo poo, now I'm trying to push that up to literally in a year or so. I'm kinda jealous. I wish I had enough money. And somewhere to go.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:26
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My girlfriend is student teaching at a minority-majority school and it was the same thing there. The little girls cried. I'm heartbroken for them.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:50
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An entire generation of little white kids are being poisoned by their parents and raised in a culture of normalization. Trump will be their role model. I've never been more grateful to have had Obama as my President during my formative years.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:21
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Protip: black posters don't go to GBS it's a cesspit of Trumpists and brogressives, 100 times worse than here. You'll be very upset. I was.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:37
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I know why you do it, but the advocation of charter schools and homeschooling in the black community makes me really sad. Like you guys are right the public schools have utterly failed you. It's just also exactly what the conservatives want. Edit: ^ hey, you, take that poo poo to USPOL where it belongs.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:56
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negromancer posted:I didn't say poo poo about charter schools, that's just privatizing our oppression. Homeschooling, as in not getting taught bullshit from white people who want to gloss over all of their fuckery, but the actual truth of things. No celebrating Columbus Day, but learning the truth about him. I know you didn't but some do. Cory Booker for example. I agree. Columbus Day is a travesty. I want to teach real history. Too bad I'll probably never get to now. Like I said I totally understand saying gently caress it and pulling your kids out to homeschool. It just makes me sad it got to this point. Kids deserve so much better.
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Nov 10, 2016 08:04
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I don't really know what community education would look like. For it to work out well it would require a lot of investment, engagement, and for participating adults to have some degree of general knowledge enough to effectively give kids a good, broad K-8 type education in terms of basic knowledge coverage and social development. I feel like the notion would be interesting but it would be a hard start in impoverished black neighborhoods. More affluent black people could probably do it though.
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Nov 10, 2016 08:14
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Gaunab posted:I wish the history in school wasn't so white washed and that it focused on more than just a white centric point of view. I do too. I talked briefly about this in the misogynoir thread but basically regular history teachers will keep choosing Great Men, Great Chain of Progress narrative because it's easy, you can cover the standardized test material and you won't get fired for hurting white feelings. They're not right to do so but it's the path of least resistance for people with increasingly little job security. Textbook authors have no excuse tho.
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Nov 10, 2016 08:23
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Mixodorian posted:Do kids learn about John Brown? I came up in SC and know I didn't. He's a good role model that would be more relatable to the little white children than MLK or Malcolm X. Anecdotally, in a Wisconsin private Catholic school I did get taught about him in both middle and high school, we were taught that he was a well-meaning crazy person who failed to incite a great slave rebellion but served as one of the final pushes into the Civil War. They went over his dying quote and framed him as a martyr. Overall I agree with that assessment historically. He was crazy, but he was also good and right.
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Nov 10, 2016 08:29
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negromancer posted:The difference is Germany was hosed over by the Treaty of Versailles, but the rural whites here caused themselves to be hosed over by being purposefully isolationists, denying black people housing and jobs in their poo poo towns, and then those factory owners they were so loyal to worked in concert with the Republicans that played on their racism to move their factories overseas, leaving them with nothing but their dick in their hands. If I might engage in a bit of retrospection, I would humbly argue the real difference is in terms of scale. Take away the specifics of a bad treaty versus bad economic decisions, the real difference is that Hitler's main boogeyman, Jewish people, really wasn't that much of their overall population in relative terms - about 0.75% of their overall population. Hitler was free to bullshit people because of ignorance, but him saying the Jews were the problem is like Republicans saying Syrian refugees are the problem - it's almost comically absurd. But in America, black people, Hispanics, Muslims, etc. are a huge, visible chunk of the population. The racism is already there swirling about. Many white people live in sheltered segregated communities but with the internet and modern media it's easy to see them anyway. Essentially, I'd argue Germany was actually a case of economic anxiety being morphed into racial hatred. They already had racial hatred but it wasn't a primary motivation until the fascists came in. With America racism is the primary motivator and the economic anxiety is the aggravating factor. It's a reversal of causes, albeit the same outcome.
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Nov 10, 2016 08:46
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Mixodorian posted:No, not at all. It aggravates me, but the democrats let the republicans disenfranchise black and brown voters so thems the brakes. Obama also didn't really do much for us w/r/t getting hunted by cops besides calling Baltimore protesters thugs. Maybe if he did a better job people would've been more enthusiastic about Hillary. Trump is planning to pull out of the Iran deal and go back to sanction status quo within the first 100 days dude. All the talk of how Hillary is more of a hawk was garbage.
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Nov 10, 2016 09:02
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I see every thread in D&D will be "Bernie would've been better than Hillary" until we all eventually drown in global warming water.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:53
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So I gotta ask now that it's being done, is there a strong debate in the black community on the use of "friend of the family" to refer to one another/yourselves? Is it controversial? How do you guys feel about it? Also at the risk of being patronizing I'd caution against throwing it around willy-nilly in relation to forum rules.
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Nov 11, 2016 13:45
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negromancer posted:This is a good read for all of the "shocked" and "dismayed" white people over the election. teen witch posted:I've confronted him about the whole cops can't tell if your black or African you're a dead friend of the family either way and his response is "I know my rights!" negromancer posted:The best (read: worst) part about the latter type is as SOON as white people let them know they aint nothing but a friend of the family too, its "we ALL need to come together as the African diaspora, and leave old wounds behind" poo poo, like we gonna forget all that poo poo they were talking because a white cop let them know their place in America. I am sincerely confused. But also as mentioned I suppose it's usually without the -r which I imagine is important. Edit: your use of it was actually different now that I reread it, I suppose. I have no idea how to ask/talk about it without being spectacularly uncomfortable. Maybe I shouldn't have asked.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:58
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:The people you're quoting are putting the word "friend of the family" in the white man's mouth, which is where it lives. Black people talking to each other use "nigga," which is a reclamation of the slur and doesn't mean the same thing. So how do you feel about that reclamation? negromancer posted:They way we are using it is that we are using it in the voice of those who would harm or kill us. LunarShadow posted:It isn't that confusing. They are using it to describe how black people in general are viewed by whites. Whie racism (doesn't care if you are Nigerian, Botswanan, Jamaican, etc. In retrospect I understand this better. I didn't read close enough. My apologies.
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Nov 11, 2016 20:05
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I just wanted to say that whoever gave me that wicked red text before was right and clearly I'm too much of an idiot to be posting more in this thread. I'm sorry for being a confused moron who asks dumb questions. I will lurk more.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:59
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Schizotek posted:If it was the same one as this one, which I'm pretty sure it was, it came from Trumplers not here. No, no it was not. That one I didn't mind because it was bullshit. This one was about me asking stupid racist questions I should know better about. Edit: Racist shaming totally works and anybody who says otherwise is lying tho. That avatar certainly shamed the poo poo out of me.
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Nov 12, 2016 07:13
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hackbunny posted:I figure you'll get a kick out of this: Is this The Bell Curve motherfucker? It's a weird quiz and I scored a 32 but I dunno what it's attempting to tell me really.
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Nov 13, 2016 14:33
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I feel like at least part of the problem here is that you felt the need to go "ew gross fat girls wanted to have sex with me" and that's uh, that's kinda not cool bro. Like you don't have to be attracted to anyone if you don't want but you don't have to comment on their appearance and be like "yuck" about it either. Just saying.
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Nov 13, 2016 18:45
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Ignoring the racial component to this: Dude: ~things that are offensive towards women~ Ladies: what the gently caress bro that's not cool Dude: Are you sure it's not cool? Can you point to me the uncool parts? I'm just a humble math nerd trying to explain why I can't get a date.
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Nov 13, 2016 19:56
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negromancer posted:The fact that Hillary is trying to make nice with Trump instead of trying to rip states that engaged in blatant voter suppression a new one, is infuriating and lends credence to the theory that there's really no difference between the two sides for minorities. I kind of doubt Hillary actually wants to be nice to Trump. She ran on trying to shame him for not conforming to the peaceful transition of power, if she doesn't follow suit she'll get castigated. He's also a guy who ran literally on sending her to prison. It's cowardly, but I doubt it's an expression of her being like "gently caress yeah, Trump is president and it owns!" Edit: Like Hillary refused to shake his hand on live television at the second debate after the Access Hollywood tape came out. I think she probably loathes everything he represents.
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Nov 14, 2016 16:58
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Pastrymancy posted:Looks like he might be Secretary of State I mean the good news is that he won't implement national stop and frisk there, so yay black people. The bad news is that he'll implement national shoot and bomb in Iran, so boo Iranian people. 
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Nov 15, 2016 02:35
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HotCanadianChick posted:That would be some next level double-loving-standards right there: the same party that's all for states' rights and limiting the federal government's power when it comes time for trying to force teaching of creationism in public schools in Kansas or banning abortions in Texas, going whole hog on trampling all the gently caress over the rights of states to determine what is and isn't a legal drug in their state. You sweet summer child, believing that state's rights are a meaningful position non-stupid people believe in and not a historical deflection for why we should ignore policies that poo poo on minorities. They tell you today that it was a War of Northern Aggression against states' rights and leave out the "...to enforce legal ownership of human beings by race" at the end.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:00
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blackguy32 posted:Sickle Cell So I have a question for you. I was talking to my white Canadian friend about the election and politics and we started talking about the nature of fascism, white nationalism, etc. That kind of thing isn't really so common in Canada, or at least not so loud, so he was very confused. So I was discussing race as a fiction, why people are white supremacist, and the reason why "white identity" is bad but minority identities aren't. And I said something to the effect of, there's no meaningful differences between an Italian guy and a German guy, just as much as there's no difference between an Italian guy and a black guy. It's just a label based on appearances and national origins. Then I was like, well I guess there's sickle cell. I have no clue why that is a thing though. I vaguely recall hearing about it being related to malaria but it seems very...  to me. So I would like to know if you could explain why Sickle Cell is more common in black people to me as if I were an idiot. 
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Nov 16, 2016 09:24
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