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Obama's personal charisma and once-in-a-lifetime campaigns might have shot the Democrats in the foot if anything. It allowed him to be elected and re-elected as a centrist neoliberal when people were clamoring for change. I don't know if posters like Angry_Ed were too young to vote in the late noughts but there was a definite insurrection against neoliberalism with the GFC. Hell, I was a young IB associate at the time and there was definitely a sense that the finance industry was going to be cut down to size with the possibility of banks being taken out to the shed and executives would be punished. And this wasn't a bad thing.
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Dec 1, 2016 01:28
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In my opinion, the minimum viable population to maintain statehood should be somewhere around 1.2 million. Here's my reasoning: as of 1830 or so, Congress started to reject applications for statehood outright if the territory to become a state did not have at least 60,000 people in it. In that year, the non-slave population of the United States was about 11 million people. So multiply that by about 29.5 to get today's population of about 325 million. If you multiply the 60,000 limit by 29.5 you get ~1.8 million as the threshold. We lower it a bit to account for problems to get the 1.2 million figure At the 1.2 million threshold, that means Rhode Island, Montana, Delaware, South Dakota, North Dakota, Alaska, Vermont, and Wyoming have to get merged into other states. If you used the 1.8 million threshold, that'd also add in Idaho, Hawaii, New Hampshire, Maine.
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Dec 1, 2016 01:27
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Paradoxish posted:And there's no practical way you could sell this without it looking like a blatant attempt to reduce Republican representation, which obviously isn't going to fly so long as Republicans still have any power at all. Rhode Island is the 43rd smallest state by population and geographically tiny, so how do you justify leaving it with two Senate seats while consolidating a state like Nebraska, which has twice its population? I'll also mention that the ratio of population between most populous state to least populous state when the U.S. was formed was about 17. Today, it is about 70. That's a quadrupling of Senate power for the smallest state. I don't think the framers intended for states to have such dramatic differences in population.
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Dec 1, 2016 01:28
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Fojar38 posted:Treasure things like these, friends, for they will sustain us during the dark times I'll keep these laughs close to me when I end up in the Trump-Reagan Home for Wayward Cucks.
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Dec 1, 2016 01:28
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HannibalBarca posted:Enjoy your new states ASSHOLES nah see...if we are reworking things, the place called "Charlotte" doesn't need to get bigger.
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Dec 1, 2016 01:28
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I'm really looking forward to the alt right tearing itself apart as they realize that they were used and discarded by the establishment. The leaders will mostly try and suck up with their benefactors but the internet warriors will implode. What were their demands besides the right to be assholes in public? They've pretty much gotten that already.
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Dec 1, 2016 01:31
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HannibalBarca posted:Enjoy your new states ASSHOLES I love the loving vast wasteland comprising most of the Dakotas, Montana, Wyoming, Nevada, Oregon and Idaho that remains contiguous and completely unnamed.
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Dec 1, 2016 01:33
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SaTaMaS posted:What were their demands besides the right to be assholes in public? They've pretty much gotten that already. They also need safe spaces to not be mocked for being an rear end in a top hat in public. They don't have that yet.
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Dec 1, 2016 01:33
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shrike82 posted:Obama's personal charisma and once-in-a-lifetime campaigns might have shot the Democrats in the foot if anything. I voted in 08, first presidential election I was old enough to do so (missed '04 by a week). Also shrike82 posted:That's rich coming from someone crowing about HRC destroying Sanders and Trump for the entire run up to the election and then immediately turning around and yelling at the "Bernie Bros" for being unconstructive. Show me the posts. foobardog posted:Right. Yes, relitigating the primary is pointless, but failing to realize that you had an upsurge of leftists willing to start pissing out the tent instead of in and then blaming them for daring to question that it wasn't all sunshine and roses during Obama is one of the many things that's led to us here. As someone who supported Sanders during the primaries (and was unable to vote for him due to moving between states at the time), I get it, believe me. I just don't think being a smug and condescending to the now quite understandably confused, frightened, and upset rest of the Democratic Party will actually get them on board with the message we should've been pushing harder. Again, calling out Donna Brazile? Great. Leaving without offering an idea of your own? Pointless.
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Dec 1, 2016 01:34
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SaTaMaS posted:What were their demands besides the right to be assholes in public? They've pretty much gotten that already. Yeah, Twitter just told me that someone took Trump's phone long enough so "he" can make a tweet about how he's going to draft legal documents to further divest himself away from his company. That will probably calm down the more collaborationist liberals, and serve as something rightists can wrap themselves in when others tell them Trump is selling them out.
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Dec 1, 2016 01:35
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Party Plane Jones posted:I love the loving vast wasteland comprising most of the Dakotas, Montana, Wyoming, Nevada, Oregon and Idaho that remains contiguous and completely unnamed. I think the federal government owns most of that land so I guess it makes sense to leave it as unorganized territory
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Dec 1, 2016 01:36
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foobardog posted:Yeah, Twitter just told me that someone took Trump's phone long enough so "he" can make a tweet about how he's going to draft legal documents to further divest himself away from his company. That will probably calm down the more collaborationist liberals, and serve as something rightists can wrap themselves in when others tell them Trump is selling them out. Too bad we'll never be able to see if that's true, not that the truth matters to his base
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Dec 1, 2016 01:36
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https://twitter.com/sjdemas/status/804038466057203716 If you knew the guy was under indictment for forging signatures for the 2012 election then why the gently caress would you hire him for your campaign in 2016?
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Dec 1, 2016 01:38
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Angry_Ed posted:As someone who supported Sanders during the primaries (and was unable to vote for him due to moving between states at the time), I get it, believe me. I just don't think being a smug and condescending to the now quite understandably confused, frightened, and upset rest of the Democratic Party will actually get them on board with the message we should've been pushing harder. Again, calling out Donna Brazile? Great. Leaving without offering an idea of your own? Pointless. Sorry, in this wasteland after the great Hillbot Toxx purge, all we have left are Bernie Bros getting trolled by emboldened GBS as they argue past each other. 
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Dec 1, 2016 01:38
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Bit misleading, the verdict is about him committing fraud during 2012, but again underscores how brazenly two-faced Trump is; hiring someone to his campaign staff who committed election fraud while screaming about how the election is rigged* *if he doesn't win it
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Dec 1, 2016 01:39
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Angry_Ed posted:Bit misleading, the verdict is about him committing fraud during 2012, but again underscores how brazenly two-faced Trump is; hiring someone to his campaign staff who committed election fraud while screaming about how the election is rigged* Yeah I edited my post when I realized the original twitter link was hella clickbaity to explain it more.
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Dec 1, 2016 01:42
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Acid Haze posted:I don't really understand all the hubbub about the electoral college. I mean, I do, but I don't think discussion about it now is very productive. We've all known how stupid it is for many years, but neither party wants to get rid of it because they both think they know the best way to use it to their advantage. The electoral college bit the Democrats in the rear end in 2000, but during Obama's 8 years the party didn't push any kind of electoral reform and, what do you know, it bit them in the rear end again in 2016. quote:So your hopes of electoral reform lie future senators and congressmen who campaign on electoral reform, and a future president who might make it a priority (most likely a democrat). So the fight then is in the midterms, and trying to elect progressive congressman and senators who will in the future be able to vote for electoral reform if it comes around. And I would expect that if the Dems started pushing electoral reform, Republicans would fight it tooth and nail and what the SCOTUS looks like at that time will have a huge impact. Basically, if you really want to get rid of the electoral college, we need to vote Democrats into power in 38 states and then call a constitutional convention. And if we could do that, we'd have NPVIC already, so we probably wouldn't even bother at that point.
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Dec 1, 2016 01:50
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Acid Haze posted:I don't really understand all the hubbub about the electoral college. I mean, I do, but I don't think discussion about it now is very productive. We've all known how stupid it is for many years, but neither party wants to get rid of it because they both think they know the best way to use it to their advantage. The electoral college bit the Democrats in the rear end in 2000, but during Obama's 8 years the party didn't push any kind of electoral reform and, what do you know, it bit them in the rear end again in 2016. Now Republicans won't want anything to do with it because they plan on incumbent Trump winning the EC again, especially looking at the popular vote from this year. Well, isn't changing our elections the exact kind of bold, no-compromise reforms we need the party to be fighting for? We can both fight within a broken system while advocating a new system to replace it. Or inverted: we need an EC reform plan and message that even the Rust Belt will approve. In figuring that out we work towards figuring out how to sell power to the people* in a way that doesn't crush progress. *we have our awkward history with the people wanting horrible poo poo to balance when we argue for popular control.
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Dec 1, 2016 01:50
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So what do we do when the populations change?
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Dec 1, 2016 01:50
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i just found out about this smiley via this post and i honestly hope it doesn't get ran into the ground like corn-cobbing or arzying
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Dec 1, 2016 01:50
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Spacebump posted:You should have posted the response. The kind of sharp wit expected from someone who thought he'd be safe in Hong Kong. FlamingLiberal posted:NC GOV update: NC GOP is trying to challenge some votes in Durham County but so far has been denied by the election boards (which are full of McCrory appointees). Basically it's looking like now Cooper could have above the 10,000 vote lead which would make it so that there would be no recount. He's at like 9900+ votes ahead currently. Doesn't the assembly in NC have a ton of power like the ability to basically gut the governorship and give itself control over a lot of the things McCheese was doing? They will still have the numbers to override Cooper's vetoes too IIRC. Still, any silver lining is welcome at this point. Four years of these kinds of realizations would also be a silver lining were it not for the fact these people are still going to line up for Trump unless the Dems have some superstar pick for 2020 like... ...oh, right.  e: Inferior Third Season posted:Basically, if you really want to get rid of the electoral college, we need to vote Democrats into power in 38 states and then call a constitutional convention. And if we could do that, we'd have NPVIC already, so we probably wouldn't even bother at that point. It's easier to take more states and sign on to the 270 compact while writing things to be as bullshit convoluted as possible for backing out of it. Like, not being allowed to leave unless most signatories agree to leave at the same time. Evil Fluffy fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Dec 1, 2016 01:51
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https://twitter.com/benschwartzy/status/804121350205894656 On one hand, maybe Trump is going to have trouble. On the other, it's only because he's more interested in kleptocracy than the fascism these guys wanted. e: Turns out liberalism is the only stable ideology after all, wrap it up marxailures.
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Dec 1, 2016 01:53
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My Linux Rig posted:So what do we do when the populations change? We adjust the state lines. I look forward to mile thin wide states connecting far flung neighborhoods.
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Dec 1, 2016 01:54
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While I would like to see the removal of the EC, if it had been removed for the current election, it would've only delayed Trump's rise (or someone like him) by 4-8 years, as Hillary would have continued with business as usual and not done anything to appease the rust belt's specific desire for their old jobs back.
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Dec 1, 2016 01:54
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Freakazoid_ posted:While I would like to see the removal of the EC, if it had been removed for the current election, it would've only delayed Trump's rise (or someone like him) by 4-8 years, as Hillary would have continued with business as usual and not done anything to appease the rust belt's specific desire for their old jobs back. Lol now this is jumping the shark on counterfactuals, but I like it.
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Dec 1, 2016 01:55
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foobardog posted:https://twitter.com/benschwartzy/status/804121350205894656 The country can survive kleptocracy. So seeing the fascists meltdown and fight each other because their messiah turned out to be a conman to them like he is with everyone else is a beautiful sigh to behold.
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Dec 1, 2016 01:56
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Evil Fluffy posted:It's easier to take more states and sign on to the 270 compact while writing things to be as bullshit convoluted as possible for backing out of it. Like, not being allowed to leave unless most signatories agree to leave at the same time.
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Dec 1, 2016 02:05
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foobardog posted:https://twitter.com/benschwartzy/status/804121350205894656 https://twitter.com/rachel/status/804089118649106432
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Dec 1, 2016 02:08
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Inferior Third Season posted:I'm not suggesting state consolidation is realistically in the cards. I'm saying that one should consider the nature of what a state is in the present day, and how they came to be, before trotting out the argument about how important it is to protect the outsized political power of less-populated states. It's worth mentioning that the House was meant to be the counterbalance to influence of smaller states in the Senate, but since the House has been capped at 435 members for over a hundred years, disproportionate representation has completely wiped out the supposed advantage in population. Really, the Constitution's biggest issues in the modern day don't have as much to do with the document itself, which is still fairly serviceable, but instead the layers of tradition and inertia gathered around it that have effectively warped much of the Founders' original intent.
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Dec 1, 2016 02:10
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Inferior Third Season posted:Significant progress was made on the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact in the years following the 2000 debacle, but they never got enough states on board. That's the only viable alternative outside of a Constitutional amendment, which is not going to happen due to Republicans holding most state legislatures. Also note that all of the members of NPVIC are strong Democratic states, so it is not true that neither party wants to get rid of the electoral college. Everyone knows that it clearly favors Republicans. I didn't realize that state governments were required to do that. I also need to read up on the NPVIC, I didn't know about that either. But we would still need an upswell of progressive democrats in the legislature, so midterms is a good place to start on that side of it.
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Dec 1, 2016 02:13
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gotta love the Trump voter named "Occupy Revolution"
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Dec 1, 2016 02:15
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Oof looking at the HRC campaign again - the Abuela stuff is pretty funny in retrospect https://www.hillaryclinton.com/feed/8-ways-hillary-clinton-just-your-abuela/ quote:7 things Hillary Clinton has in common with your abuela
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Dec 1, 2016 02:16
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shrike82 posted:Oof looking at the HRC campaign again - the Abuela stuff is pretty funny in retrospect 
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Dec 1, 2016 02:19
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As much fun as the weekly Hillary vs. Bernie slap fight is could we maybe broaden the horizons a little bit? Democrats have been getting loving destroyed everywhere. They're getting their asses kicked up and down the street like an old tin can at all levels of government. Electoral college dickery gave Republicans the executive, gerrymandering has the legislative on lock down, unconstitutional obstructionism has just been rewarded with control of the judicial and right now billionaire funded think tanks are spinning up op-eds on how to use a constitutional convention if they reach that level of state control. Maybe look a little higher than just this candidate versus that candidate and ask, 'What the gently caress is going on?' The answer is people are god drat pissed off at the status quo. Everybody for different reasons depending on their individual situation but the common thread is 'gently caress you all you haven't done poo poo for me in decades' Harness that and start pointing it at sons of bitches, preferably the ones that deserve it, because if you don't Team Rocket is gonna ride in and use it to poo poo on minorities some more. See also: every god drat election basically everywhere. As just one example, I get the financial necessity of bailing out the banks in the global financial crisis. Nobody was really gonna like that one, but that could have been smoothed over if you frog marched some mother fuckers into trial and actually gave them some consequences instead of letting them use the bailouts they got to pay off some fines then gave them an out by not admitting guilt in their plea deal with one hand while they continue to foreclose on houses across the nation with the other. Would it have been political theater? Yeah, absolutely. So what? Half of politics is messaging to begin with and what the hell kind of message was sent with that? Give them a huge show trial, let the media all over it like the poo poo-attracted flies they are. Publicly crucify the 1%-er assholes that caused the problem in the first place. Splash their names across the front pages of papers. If you win, great! You've sent the message that loving needs to be sent and you can start down the path of regaining public trust in the institutions that are failing everyone across the board. If you lose, because there's every possibility they would have lawyered their way out of it like the weasely rich poo poo stains they are, also great! Hammer that drum long and loud about how rigged the system is and these elite assholes are having their way with you and yours. Vote for me. Any of that last part sound familiar?
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Dec 1, 2016 02:22
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bird food bathtub posted:Any of that last part sound familiar? consider some chamomile tea and a nap
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Dec 1, 2016 02:25
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shrike82 posted:Oof looking at the HRC campaign again - the Abuela stuff is pretty funny in retrospect In retrospect? It was absurd from the outset.
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Dec 1, 2016 02:26
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Maybe to some small subset, but even here, people were crowing about her pull with the black and latino communities.
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Dec 1, 2016 02:27
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I remember. It's part of why she lost, after all. Her campaign (which is just an extension of her) seemed to believe that them colored folk don't nowise know how to vote but downticket D.
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Dec 1, 2016 02:31
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phasmid posted:I remember. It's part of why she lost, after all. Her campaign (which is just an extension of her) seemed to believe that them colored folk don't nowise know how to vote but downticket D. The fact that Trump gained Latino share versus Romney is something that I don't think anybody saw in any polling service.
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Dec 1, 2016 02:33
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Party Plane Jones posted:The fact that Trump gained Latino share versus Romney is something that I don't think anybody saw in any polling service.
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Dec 1, 2016 02:34
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