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Chump Farts posted:Would a Sanders Warren ticket have won this? tbh I don't think so. Trump won because of depressed minority turnout and racist hicks voting in droves. Bernie sucked at exciting minorities and whites will always go for the negative populist option over the positive one, 100% of the time
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Nov 9, 2016 12:25
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What really pisses me off is the total cowardice of it. Trump didn't win off the backs of his rabid rally supporters, he won because of all the spineless fucks who stayed silent all year long, even in anonymous polling, and then quietly pulled the lever for Trump. It feels like the end of an Outer Limits episode, where you realize that what you thought was reality was just a cruel lie the whole time.
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Nov 9, 2016 12:56
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The only real hope is that a reverse Obama effect happens and all the whites who showed up for Trump get mad that their lives still suck after 2 years of full GOP control and get disillusioned while Dems get fired up to vote, but Dems are at a huge structural disadvantage for 2018 so prolly not
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Nov 9, 2016 13:24
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Radish posted:Yup. Also it's clear that the populace, while loving assholes that gently caress them over when they are conservative and place the blame on "others", have lost all patience with neoliberal Democrats. Anyone that thinks Cory Booker is still a rising star is crazy. The next two years needs to a frantic search for people that can speak to white voters to get them back on board while also not allowing themselves to go down the dark path of social benefits for whites only. The problem is that these two groups are incompatible. This was not a referendum on neoliberalism, no matter how hard white leftists wished it was.
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Nov 9, 2016 13:30
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https://twitter.com/NPR/status/796328399744733184?s=09 this is so hosed.
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Nov 9, 2016 13:37
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1stGear posted:I sure am glad Clinton conceded early instead of forcing the issue. Demanding the election process actually fully complete instead of yielding the presidency to a fascist pig would have been an awful breach of decorum. No one has ever cared about the popular vote winner and that's not going to change now
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Nov 9, 2016 13:41
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Carlosologist posted:So... what are the odds Trump drops dead while in office? It's obvious the campaign did a number on his mental health and I can't imagine that will get better with the literal weight of the world on his shoulders... Low, but you can bet your rear end that they'll try to impeach Trump to install President Pence
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Nov 9, 2016 13:50
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Fojar38 posted:Impeached by who other Republicans, who really wanted Pence in the driver's seat anyway it's an insane move that would probably backfire, but we live in insane times so hey
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Nov 9, 2016 14:41
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The only slim upside to this is that the Republicans will take full ownership of whatever happens next. People turned on Obama hard after he wasted what they perceived to be total control of the government (it wasn't), and I imagine that people will do the same after Trump fails to make America great again. The ACA is definitely gone but that might backfire on them now that it's actually in effect and people don't hate it.
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Nov 9, 2016 15:05
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I think above all the media is to blame for low turnout. No poo poo one candidate is going to seem more likeable when the media coverage was so consistently one-sided.
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Nov 9, 2016 17:27
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Sylink posted:So how likely is Trump's infrastructure plan? lol if you think trump will spend money on poo poo
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Nov 9, 2016 17:34
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FCKGW posted:Any chance Trump U stuff becomes A Thing and Trumps gets bounced and we at least get Pence as prez? President Pence would be worse, arguably
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Nov 9, 2016 17:48
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hey here's some slightly positive news https://twitter.com/Maggie_Hassan/status/796405629967437824
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Nov 9, 2016 19:08
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chumbler posted:I'm praying they'll finally wake up and do their loving jobs for once. I'd like to believe that the media will go hard on Trump's administration simply because the story is juicier, but lol who knows
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Nov 9, 2016 20:31
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Fojar38 posted:Really think it's weird to be blaming either Bernie or Clinton supporters when a much larger factor in this rout was the news media For real, I think the biggest reason Clinton lost was because of how unending and one-sided the media coverage of the election was. I don't have it on me right now but there are a few graphs that show how totally pervasive the email/investigation stuff was, and how almost all coverage of Hillary involved emails. Trump didn't actually siphon off that many voters from the Dems; the amount of votes he got was consistent with McCain and Romney (even less so). There was a huge enthusiasm gap and I'm not sure if there was anything Hillary could've done to change it by virtue of being Hillary Clinton.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:00
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Guy Goodbody posted:Who are they going to run? In 2004 the economy was hosed, America was in a lovely war, the Republican president was a dumb idiot. Democrats thought, "things are so bad, we can run a cardboard cutout and still win!" I think the big difference here is - Much different electorate in 2020 than 2004 (and no, Trump didn't make significant gains compared to McCain or Romney) - Lessened enthusiasm after poo poo inevitably goes belly-up and Trumpers get mad that America still isn't great yet - The Dems will not be selecting a candidate with 30+ years of baggage Also GWB wasn't that unpopular in 2004, his favorables only began to nosedive after his reelection.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:23
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turn back warren noooooo https://twitter.com/thehill/status/796440244379848708
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Nov 9, 2016 21:37
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PKJC posted:Yeah problem being we don't have another Obama in the wings at the moment. I would gladly welcome being proven wrong by it literally being Michelle in 2020 though. As excellent an orator as Barack has been, I have to agree with the man, I love hearing her speak. Cory Booker is probably the most charismatic guy they have waiting in the wings. His economic policies will piss the left off but let's be real here, Trump didn't win because people loved his actual policies
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Nov 9, 2016 21:44
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https://twitter.com/jtemple/status/796450691661185024
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Nov 9, 2016 21:51
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Sir Tonk posted:I wonder how sustainable these swings in Congress will be now that we're at the point of one party abolishing the minimum wage and then the other pushing it to $15/hr when they take over. The business community is going to lose their minds if this starts to happen every 4-12 years. yeah, for all the doomsaying about the dems being done forever trump's victory was almost entirely on the back of low dem turnout, not some massive realignment in the electorate. if dems can figure out how to get their people to actually vote then they're golden. i'd like to believe that the sheer awfulness of the trump administration will finally cause dem voters to give a poo poo but who knows
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Nov 10, 2016 07:11
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this election has reaffirmed how much i hate white people, on both sides of the political spectrum
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Nov 10, 2016 10:02
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Kilroy posted:Okay fair enough. I agree and said something to this effect upthread. For all the talk about minority turnout, Clinton still crushed it with AA and Hispanics. White liberals would have handed this election to Clinton but they didn't show up to the polls, and that is a terrible thing. As I also mentioned upthread I agree that fixing that is something that will largely fall on white liberals who do take racial issues seriously. For myself I've got a few people in my social circle who fit this to a T and while I was already trying to explain to them why they're idiots, I will redouble efforts there and as it turns out I've got some pretty loving strong evidence of same in the form of this week. I don't think Congress can be taken back in 2018 (maaaaybe the House if there's a big enough wave), but state legislatures are way more important and we're going to need as many of them as possible by 2020 or risk losing the House for another decade. I think the biggest factor, beyond Dem restructuring, will be how people react to the Trump administration once it becomes a concrete thing and not some vague idea in peoples' heads. The GOP will have more power than ever, but total control puts them in a new and potentially damaging situation. They've been able to spend the last eight years as the opposition party that can blame everything on Obama without having to do anything, and they reaped the rewards of people turning on Obama for not solving their problems with what they perceived to be a public mandate and control of the government. Everything that happens now will be fully on them; there's literally no Dems in control of government to scapegoat and now they have to be on the defensive to keep that control like the Dems have been since 2010. The GOP's policies (stuff like the bathroom bills and gutting healthcare without a suitable replacement a la KyNect) aren't actually that popular, or at least not as popular as the policies people have projected on the GOP. That's the big problem for Trump; he won the election because he was a blank slate that his supporters could project whatever they wanted on, and he would just agree with whatever got the crowd going. People could believe that he was an extremist or a secret moderate, or that he would solve a problem in a certain way because he never actually had a platform, or outlined plans, or even previous political convictions (beyond "more money for me" and "gently caress browns"). Just like how everyone projected their hopes and dreams on Obama in 08 and then got disappointed in the real deal, there's going to be a serious disillusionment between campaign Trump and President Trump when people realize that they didn't get the president they thought they were getting. But while people didn't like Obama because it seemed like he couldn't get anything done, Trump is in an inverse situation where he's going to get a lot done but people aren't going to be happy with it. Ironically, Trump would probably be in a better position had the Dems won the Senate, because then he could have a target to blame and continue to make vague empty promises about how awesome things would be if it weren't for damned gridlock in Congress. I'm not a believer in accelerationism and a lot of bad poo poo is about to happen that will probably directly affect me, but longterm I think this situation was inevitable and needed to fully restructure and reenergize the Democrats. I don't necessarily think the Dems' current platform is wrong, but they need to excite their voters and they need to promote candidates that can provide that excitement. Dems have a chronic turnout problem and if two years of Trump can't fix that then I don't know what will.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:31
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also we're probably not getting single-payer in America, ever https://twitter.com/bshor/status/796746604363575296
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Nov 10, 2016 17:33
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Kilroy posted:For what it's worth the way things were going I think progressives and leftists were going to slowly take over the party anyway. Hillary was the candidate but she wasn't the future of the party and the writing was kind of on the wall with that even before she lost. I think the good part is that the Sanders campaign and the party platform that resulted from it has given Dems a good head-start in that direction. The next few years are going to be awful but I think the Dems relied too much on having a President that could block GOP legislation like hockey pucks and let downticket efforts atrophy as a result, and realized far too late that Dem voters were only excited about Obama and not the party as a whole. It's gonna be an uphill battle but I'd like to believe that Dems can come out of this a stronger party in the longterm. The GOP is going to pull all sorts of nasty poo poo to suppress the vote but none of that matters if the Dems can just figure out how to drive turnout. For all the talk about how voter suppression won Trump the election, the state margins he won by were small and could have been overcome by even half of Obama's turnout level.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:53
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Lemming posted:Dude, Hillary won the popular vote and lost in states by razor thin margins. Acting like all is lost forever is stupid. This wasn't a landslide or anything. The Republicans are going to be in power and when awful things happen economically it'll be their fault. This is an important point and people need to remember this. Don't let these assholes bully the country into thinking they own the place with sub-Romney levels of support. 2016 was a lesson that enthusiasm is everything, and we're only going to make a comeback if we're energized to fight back instead of hopelessly moping around like the GOP wants us to be.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:13
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VH4Ever posted:This is the one interesting wrinkle about all this. He's just so easily convinced to change course by an audience, by a charismatic person, etc. Part of what makes him so unpredictable, potentially for good and for bad. yeah, the one good thing about Trump in comparison to a boilerplate Republican is that he gives zero shits about what the party wants and is super easy to manipulate on a personal level
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Nov 10, 2016 19:40
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Shadokin posted:Ive seen a lot of people saying that white people are too blame for Trump and its not what did it. Democrats or people who vote Democrat didnt show up at the polls. She got over 5 million less votes then Obama on 2012 and over 9 million less then Obama in 2008. alternatively, the problem might be that Dem voters only care about Obama and not the party as a whole which is a much worse problem to solve
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Nov 10, 2016 20:28
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Shadokin posted:I voted for Hillary. 9 million less democrat votes then 2008. 5 million less then 2012. Trump got less votes then John god drat McCain and people are trying to blame a whole race of people for his winning instead of the real problem that Democrat voters did not show up too the pole. I'm way angrier towards white Dems than I am towards Trump voters. At least the Trump voters got what they wanted, white Dems sold me down the river for loving nothing. thanks assholes
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Nov 10, 2016 20:41
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sit on my Facebook posted:The democratic party from top to bottom is responsible for this. They're bad at winning elections, the only reason we've had the presidency for these eight years is 1) Bush was Bush and 2) Obama's generationally unique charisma and savvy. The first step in fixing the problems we just elected is a complete shake down of the DNC gently caress this. don't pretend like white dem voters had no agency in any of this. they knew what was at stake and what would happen to minorities if trump got elected, and they just didn't care. that's it.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:51
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sit on my Facebook posted:You misunderstand me, I'm including the voters in that blanket condemnation. my point is that eventually the buck has to stop with the voters. you can blame the DNC all you want but at the end of the day, a majority of white Dem voters saw what was coming and who would be affected, and decided they didn't care enough to fill out a single bubble on a sheet of paper. the most devastating thing about this election to me is the feeling that truly no one gives a poo poo about me, not even so-called "allies" who are so wishy-washy with their support that they can let white supremacy take over the country and not even bat an eye
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Nov 10, 2016 21:03
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again, I think rabid Trump supporters are going to be a bit less rabid and supportive of Trump when his presidency actually begins
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Nov 10, 2016 21:25
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Polygynous posted:Add to them the millions of people who apparently couldn't vote for Hillary because she got paid to tell some bankers what they wanted to hear. it doesn't matter if they come back if the dems get their poo poo together (lol). the trump base is not some sort of paradigm-shifting unstoppable mass of voters, they barely even won the first time
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Nov 10, 2016 21:37
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Scent of Worf posted:https://twitter.com/time/status/796805891475570688 lol trump is just flat-out trolling with these picks now
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Nov 10, 2016 21:46
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:I really don't think a wall of that size can be built in four years, or at least not built in a way that's structurally sound. And then after it's up it would require lots of repairs and maintenance and all that jazz. Trump, building something structurally sound?
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Nov 10, 2016 23:00
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Fojar38 posted:Boehner didn't resign last year because the GOP is a unified bloc that's easy to direct wherever the establishment wants, guys. The GOP was barely united when they had Obama to focus all their hatred on, I have no idea what's going to happen now that all the various factions of the GOP have to actually decide on what to pass together
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Nov 10, 2016 23:12
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Too Shy Guy posted:Trump is being ridiculously magnanimous and McConnell is signalling hard that he's not going to kill the filibuster. lol, I think Mitch smartly realized that they still need gridlock to blame Dems for something
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Nov 11, 2016 00:03
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drat, leonard cohen died. guess he saw the election results and was like "gently caress it, i'm outta here"
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Nov 11, 2016 02:47
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The next president of the United States, everyone
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Nov 11, 2016 03:30
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Fojar38 posted:On the plus side it'll give us a front seat to the inevitable meltdown when he realizes that being president is hard. I'm legit scared that Trump is going to have a total psychotic breakdown as President. Dude could barely keep it together running a campaign, he has no idea how unendingly stressful the real job is going to be.
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Nov 11, 2016 04:09
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Here's some positive news for y'all: Maine is no longer FPTP https://twitter.com/democracynow/status/796919153353486336
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Nov 11, 2016 05:22
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