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Venom Snake
Feb 19, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo
How to get involved with fixing the DNC: http://www.glyphgryph.com/index.html

For your own personal crusade to fix this mess here are some good ways to help:

-Local. Local. Local. Change starts with your county party and state party. Be the guy who always shows up to everything. Make them depend on you. Put a loving clown hat on and be the next Robert Marrow. Whatever it takes.
-Join advocacy groups. These people need your help now more than ever.
-Do not be afraid to speak out. Many people in America's minority communities are terrified right now. Do not let them think that they are alone. Do not down play their concerns.
-When reaching out to people who got burned by the Clintons give them a chance. There are lots of people like me who got their lives blown up when the Clintons went down in flames and ran off into the woods.
-Be prepared to argue. Do not just walk out if someone disagrees with you. That's what killed us this last go round. Don't shut down dissent.
-Seriously I am not joking when I say local. It might hurt that you can't directly change the top. But the top is built on a base. Be that base.

https://twitter.com/backspace/status/800375658891378688?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

tower time posted:

So I was thinking about potential steps steps for the Democratic party to take, and I remembered the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populist_Caucus which was formed in 2008 and effectively went defunct went Bruce Braley was left to pursue a Senate seat in 2014. Keith Ellison was a member, and though the group was small, it was progressive and centered around the needs of working people and rural areas. My representative is Dave Loebsack, who was a member, so I plan to call his office and ask about a potential revival of the house populist caucus. If your representative is listed as a former member, I would urge you to call and express your desire for them to brush off the cobwebs and make it active again and try to expand it. Or if your representative was not, maybe call and ask them about contacting former representatives active with the caucus to join and represent your district because the issues they represent are important to you.

There is a lot of overlap with the house progressive caucus, but the populist caucus has some genuine room to work with any honest republicans out there on issues concerning workers.

Excellent article on how Dems lost rural America: http://www.dailyyonder.com/analysis-democrats-turn-their-backs-on-rural-america/2016/11/14/16208/


I'll post more stuff here later. Thank you for your patience.



============================================================

Hello and welcome to the Venom "Punished" Snake autopsy thread were I attempt to lay out what went wrong. I make this post by popular request. I am 100% aware I am going to get brutally owned shortly after making this post

To set the tone: Bernie and the Progressive wing of the party are in a Germany circa 1944 situation were operation Valkyrie was successful except but the Allies have refused any offers of peace. What do we do next? We have to do something or were hosed and our ability to hold them back is being lessened by the hour. It's 1942 and Stalingrad has fallen. The enemy is inside the gates. Stalin has fled the county and Germany has no interest in peace with what remains the USSR. Whats the plan now Marshal Zhukov?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoQxqi6XkGM

Clinton was defeated because the campaign was operating in another world were the democrats were winners, not losers. Obama won right? If we do what he did we will win right? The campaigns were almost entirely the same people. Except America is not the America of 2008, or 2012. How good the economy was doing did not matter. Obama's approval rating did not matter. All the progress made these past 8 years did not matter. Why did these not matter? Because for lower to middle class white American things didn't get better and to the rest of America Trump was a bad joke that could never ACTUALLY be elected RIGHT? Time and time again I (and others) dismissed incompetence within the Dem party as growing pains. Turns out those growing pains were actually late stage cancer.

The Clinton Campaign put to much trust in polls and far, far to much trust in older data experts/theory crafters who were looking to build an optimized spreadsheet instead of a movement. Ultimately Clinton herself is a smart, good women but she is hamstrung by outdated loyalty to people who hate her. She was scared of being overtly left wing and turned off voters and it crippled her attempt to build a message. They say If your explaining then your losing and 2016 was one giant explanation of EMAILS!. The Campaign tried to disenfranchise Republicans and forgot in the process that they think she is the devil. Just because old failed Neocons flipped to our side means that the GOP was as split as we thought it to be. Meanwhile the democratic party is weaker than it has ever been before and not at all prepared to offer any resistance to the GOP.

Another huge problem was overreaching. Instead of defending strongholds the democratic party over extended itself and got annihilated. If we would have kept the firewall we would have won by a slim margin but we would have won. Instead we chased idiotic dreams of blue Georgia/North Carolina and Arizona. Everyone in the campaign wanted to believe that dem strong holds would remain so no matter what. Resources were not allocated properly. My camp often fought to push resources towards Florida but the National campaign pushed back hard. Nobody actually took the idea that traditionally dem states could be in play seriously for a second. The Obama team brought on to give us another 2012 or 2008 gave the dems a 2000 instead. Right now from the little I still hear they are in a state of disbelief or have just given up. 8 years of hell and Obama will be handing the keys to a man who thinks he's a kenyan muslim traitor.

Disconnection between the National campaign and local campaigns was also a problem looking back on it. Many local offices went underfunded as more and more money was diverted to winning the ad and communication war.

Clinton had supporters. Trump had followers. Clinton was careful about what she said. Trump was willing to say anything to anyone. Clinton had the support the Dems who held a minority in both the senate and congress with less than 30% of governors and state legislators. Trump had the support of majority's in both the house and senate as well as governorship's of several blue states. Clinton said she was going to raise taxes. Trump said he would cut the most taxes of anyone ever bigly.

Diagnoses: Trump and Obama had a movement. We had fear. Fear of Trump was never going to be enough to win. We needed a candidate who energized the base and appealed to what people want not don't. Would Bernie have won? It isn't my right to say. After all I was wrong all along lol

To people who supported Hillary like me: We blew it. We can't give up though because the party needs a new direction and it would be wrong to give up now. Whoever steps up to lead in the aftermath should have our support.
To people who supported Bernie: It's your show now if you want it. Unite people behind your banner. Alienating them like we did will get you the same fate that befell us.
To Dems in general: We either unite now and try and rebuild or were hosed.

Ill answer any and all questions to the best of my ability. Ill write more as it comes to me.





IK Note: Please no excessive slapfighting about the primaries. No coulda, woulda, shoulda talk over it. You can analyze what should have been improved on for future primary fields.

Venom Snake has issued a correction as of 22:57 on Nov 20, 2016

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That DICK!
Sep 28, 2010

Autopsy report: candidate suffered from a severe case of sucking rear end before succumbing to stinky poo poo syndrome

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold
pick a goddamn year, is it 1942 or 1944 ffs

Zoq-Fot-Pik
Jun 27, 2008

Frungy!
*sics the "SKULLS" Parasite Unit on the OP*

logikv9
Mar 5, 2009


Ham Wrangler
I don't envy the campaign manager in 2020 trying to figure out whether to blanket America in ads, throw it all into rallies, or both.

Grondoth
Feb 18, 2011
I can't believe how bad of a candidate Clinton was.

It's unbelievable.

slave to my cravings
Mar 1, 2007

Got my mind on doritos and doritos on my mind.

That DICK! posted:

Autopsy report: candidate suffered from a severe case of sucking rear end before succumbing to stinky poo poo syndrome

FizFashizzle
Mar 30, 2005







a. you're unemployed now. what was the kill video you claimed existed?

b. who does the dnc unite around? what figure can they base 2018 around and expect any success? is it the bernie/warren wing? surely it's not the booker (black male hillary) side of things

the bitcoin of weed
Nov 1, 2014

turns out when your entire campaign is actually explaining how bad the other person is instead of giving anyone a reason to vote for you instead, lots of people just won't vote

Thoguh
Nov 8, 2002

College Slice

Fullhouse posted:

turns out when your entire campaign is actually explaining how bad the other person is instead of giving anyone a reason to vote for you instead, lots of people just won't vote

Also make sure to tell everyone that doesn't like you that its only because you're a woman.

slave to my cravings
Mar 1, 2007

Got my mind on doritos and doritos on my mind.
Autopsy report: Kelly Anne Conway, reince priebus, newt Gingrich, Rudy giuliani, bill Mitchell, dilbro all had more insight into the electorate than all the democrats combined - fix that

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

Amazing that the OP assumes rural poverty is a myth, and that the Obama recovery was somehow a boon to agricultural workers.

Go gently caress yourself.

the bitcoin of weed
Nov 1, 2014

and you can say that the economy is doing fine all you want, but there are many areas in the US where this absolutely isn't the case. We have lots of jobs now, but most of those jobs offer terrible pay with terrible hours and zero benefits. People cannot afford to survive

Hillary took Bernie's economic populist message and threw it in the garbage for "We spoke to a pageant contestant from 20 years ago and she says she isn't voting for you"


e:

slave to my cravings posted:

Autopsy report: Kelly Anne Conway, reince priebus, newt Gingrich, Rudy giuliani, bill Mitchell, dilbro all had more insight into the electorate than all the democrats combined - fix that

I am honestly more mad about Bill Mitchell's stupid rear end being retroactively right than anything else in this election. Who allowed that to happen? How was every single poll so wrong?

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002

Norris'es are back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (fox Howl)

FizFashizzle posted:

a. you're unemployed now. what was the kill video you claimed existed?

b. who does the dnc unite around? what figure can they base 2018 around and expect any success? is it the bernie/warren wing? surely it's not the booker (black male hillary) side of things

B. It's Bernie and Bernie alone. Warren has already bent the knee. Assuming he doesn't and I don't think he will.

He's not going to run again but hopefully he plays the part of party elder and uses his newfound fame to promote someone. Best guess is Gabbard but who knows who will emerge. gently caress Booker.

Colosmicon
Jan 5, 2013
I, for one, regret not taking every opportunity to scream at the Hillary campaign to vocally push moderate-to-radical leftist economic policy.

anime was right
Jun 27, 2008

death is certain
keep yr cool

Fullhouse posted:

turns out when your entire campaign is actually explaining how bad the other person is instead of giving anyone a reason to vote for you instead, lots of people just won't vote

i, a person knee loving deep in politics, could not articulate in three bullet points why hillary clinton wanted to run for president other than

she wanted to run for president
more obama, maybe

her messaging was trash. i dont think she was as bad of a candidate people think, but her campaign, overall, was not good.

Lastgirl
Sep 7, 1997


Good Morning!
Sunday Morning!


When you are a fiddle and the DNC plays you.

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

Venom Snake and every other liberal idiot are those villagers from The Dying Earth who perceive everything through the idealized lens of the Overworld, when in reality they're wallowing in their own filth while putting on aristocratic airs.

Grondoth
Feb 18, 2011
Mr Snake, I want you to consider maybe this idea: That for lots of people things didn't get much better over the past 8 years

Also:

quote:

Everyone in the campaign wanted to believe that dem strong holds would remain so no matter what. Resources were not allocated properly. My camp often fought to push resources towards Florida but the National campaign pushed back hard. Nobody actually took the idea that traditionally dem states could be in play seriously for a second.

Holy poo poo whoever worked in that campaign should be banished from politics forever. That's incredible arrogance from a campaign that MUST'VE KNEW they were running a candidate that could in no way guarantee the turnout Obama did.

Venom Snake
Feb 19, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo

FizFashizzle posted:

a. you're unemployed now. what was the kill video you claimed existed?

b. who does the dnc unite around? what figure can they base 2018 around and expect any success? is it the bernie/warren wing? surely it's not the booker (black male hillary) side of things

A. There probably was no video. All I ever heard was rumors.

B. Warren has given up. Bernie is also on the verge of throwing in the the towel. The only person I know willing to present opposition/unification right now is the Tim Kaine crowd/NOVA dems who believe we should rally around Bernie's primary message. Even if he himself won't do it.


Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Amazing that the OP assumes rural poverty is a myth, and that the Obama recovery was somehow a boon to agricultural workers.

Go gently caress yourself.

Rural poverty is not a myth and the Obama recovery did not fix America's economic divide. Even still it's worth pointing out that all the normal factors that would contribute to a less did not exist in this election.


Fullhouse posted:

turns out when your entire campaign is actually explaining how bad the other person is instead of giving anyone a reason to vote for you instead, lots of people just won't vote

This

whenimmashoo
Jun 12, 2013



Fullhouse posted:

How was every single poll so wrong?

I want to know this too. How the gently caress?

Thoguh
Nov 8, 2002

College Slice

Venom Snake posted:

Because lower to middle class white America perceived things to be worse and getting worse

Or just maybe things are actually getting worse for lower to middle class America, especially for people outside a handful of cities. And touting job creation numbers doesn't do anything if you can't find a job because nobody is hiring within a 50 mile radius. If the democratic party won't accept that people voted for Trump for reasons other than racism they are doomed to continued failure.

The Kingfish
Oct 21, 2015


I just realized that Bernie and Warren are the leaders of the party now.

E: And bernie more so than warren I would expect.

The Kingfish has issued a correction as of 01:27 on Nov 10, 2016

Peel
Dec 3, 2007

the trump campaign was real bad but 'make america great again' and the hats were real good

not sure what clinton's slogan actually was. 'stronger together' was okay i guess but mostly i remember 'i'm with her' which wasn't

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

The Kingfish posted:

I just realized that Bernie and Warren are the leaders of the party now.

:unsmith:

Venom Snake
Feb 19, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo

Grondoth posted:

Holy poo poo whoever worked in that campaign should be banished from politics forever. That's incredible arrogance from a campaign that MUST'VE KNEW they were running a candidate that could in no way guarantee the turnout Obama did.

Well. The people running the campaign WERE Obama people. The problem was there was no message to couple with GOTV. Obama had a message and GOTV, we had......not that.


Grondoth posted:

Mr Snake, I want you to consider maybe this idea: That for lots of people things didn't get much better over the past 8 years

I know.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"

anime was right posted:

i, a person knee loving deep in politics, could not articulate in three bullet points why hillary clinton wanted to run for president other than

she wanted to run for president
more obama, maybe

her messaging was trash. i dont think she was as bad of a candidate people think, but her campaign, overall, was not good.

Despite the fact that Hillary had a very favorable media presence she never managed to get a sound bite that had any policy proposal on it. Even trump had his talk about building a wall and changing the deals in soundbites. Hillary had nothing, because every time she had an opportunity, she basically said "read my website".

Harlock
Jan 15, 2006

Tap "A" to drink!!!

Democrats are hosed in 2018, good luck in 2020.

Peel
Dec 3, 2007

Venom Snake posted:

B. Warren has given up. Bernie is also on the verge of throwing in the the towel. The only person I know willing to present opposition/unification right now is the Tim Kaine crowd/NOVA dems who believe we should rally around Bernie's primary message. Even if he himself won't do it.

comparing this to the rapid republican transition to defence and entrenchment after 2008 is remarkable

i gotta think they'll get over it once the shock wears off

slave to my cravings
Mar 1, 2007

Got my mind on doritos and doritos on my mind.

Venom Snake posted:

A. There probably was no video. All I ever heard was rumors.

B. Warren has given up. Bernie is also on the verge of throwing in the the towel. The only person I know willing to present opposition/unification right now is the Tim Kaine crowd/NOVA dems who believe we should rally around Bernie's primary message. Even if he himself won't do it.


Rural poverty is not a myth and the Obama recovery did not fix America's economic divide. Even still it's worth pointing out that all the normal factors that would contribute to a less did not exist in this election.


This

The Tim kaine nova crowd is the same a Clinton as far as I'm concerned. Any attempt to follow bernies primary message will be viewed as entirely disingenuous and reactionary and completely ignored.

The Kingfish
Oct 21, 2015



Everybody knows this. But when Hillary talked about it, she spoke as if she was conceding the point to Trump. That doesn't come across well if you are actually suffering.

Digiwizzard
Dec 23, 2003


Pork Pro

FizFashizzle posted:


b. who does the dnc unite around? what figure can they base 2018 around and expect any success? is it the bernie/warren wing? surely it's not the booker (black male hillary) side of things

dont worry, the DNC has been working on a failsafe backup plan in situations like this.

the 2020 candidate will be chelsea. the optics will be very good and oppo won't know what hit them

Venom Snake
Feb 19, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo

Thoguh posted:

Or just maybe things are actually getting worse for lower to middle class America, especially for people outside a handful of cities. And touting job creation numbers doesn't do anything if you can't find a job because nobody is hiring within a 50 mile radius. If the democratic party won't accept that people voted for Trump for reasons other than racism they are doomed to continued failure.

I am not specifically talking about economics. White America was very concerned about a lot more than just economics in this election. You are correct that jobs and growth were not distributed equally!


The Kingfish posted:

I just realized that Bernie and Warren are the leaders of the party now.

E: And bernie more so than warren I would expect.

Warren doesn't want the Party reigns. It remains to be seen if Bernie wants them. I wouldn't blame him for giving up.

whenimmashoo
Jun 12, 2013



The Kingfish posted:

I just realized that Bernie and Warren are the leaders of the party now.

E: And bernie more so than warren I would expect.

I feel like this is way too optimistic. At least this early.

Is there any sign that normal people are abandoning the DNC and pals? It seems like everyone is just grieving over this election.

Lastgirl
Sep 7, 1997


Good Morning!
Sunday Morning!
my favorite Aesop's fable is where the Democrats discover hubris and it backfires on them big league :o:

ofc the other one is slow and steady, thanks jeb!

BATH TUB
Jun 27, 2003

Thoguh posted:

Or just maybe things are actually getting worse for lower to middle class America, especially for people outside a handful of cities. And touting job creation numbers doesn't do anything if you can't find a job because nobody is hiring within a 50 mile radius. If the democratic party won't accept that people voted for Trump for reasons other than racism they are doomed to continued failure.

white people weren't racist, they had valid economic concerns which drove them to secure the existence of their people and a future for white children

Zikan
Feb 29, 2004

Since the party is effectively broken and leaderless, could a Jeremy Corbyn style takeover with the progressive caucus leading the charge with someone like Keith Ellison or Tulsi Gabbard succeed? Someone who just stands up and gives people someone to rally to by complete repudating CLintonism, who isn't perceived as from the Clintonite camp as Tim Kaine and the NoVa Dems? Or would there be too much backlash from the remaining Clintonites

Venom Snake
Feb 19, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo

The Kingfish posted:

Everybody knows this. But when Hillary talked about it, she spoke as if she was conceding the point to Trump. That doesn't come across well if you are actually suffering.

Agreed.


slave to my cravings posted:

The Tim kaine nova crowd is the same a Clinton as far as I'm concerned. Any attempt to follow bernies primary message will be viewed as entirely disingenuous and reactionary and completely ignored.

Then were doomed I guess.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold
the 2020 primaries are going to be hilarious when Tim Kaine shows up in them thinking he has a snowball's chance in hell

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Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3
Nov 15, 2003

The Kingfish posted:

I just realized that Bernie and Warren are the leaders of the party now.

E: And bernie more so than warren I would expect.

it ought to be the case but who knows if it is. im not seeing any emails. i think bernie might be grouching by the lake

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