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Condiv
May 7, 2008

Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod


The Kingfish posted:

I just realized that Bernie and Warren are the leaders of the party now.

E: And bernie more so than warren I would expect.

it's time to rebuild :dance:

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The Kingfish
Oct 21, 2015


Zikan posted:

Since the party is effectively broken and leaderless, could a Jeremy Corbyn style takeover with the progressive caucus leading the charge with someone like Keith Ellison or Tulsi Gabbard succeed? Someone who just stands up and gives people someone to rally to by complete repudating CLintonism, who isn't perceived as from the Clintonite camp as Tim Kaine and the NoVa Dems? Or would there be too much backlash from the remaining Clintonites

Things literally can't get any lower for the party, now is the perfect time for a civil war. The left wing needs to act quickly before the moderates can come up with some sort of coherent narrative about how this is secretly the left's fault.

FizFashizzle
Mar 30, 2005







Venom Snake posted:

A. There probably was no video. All I ever heard was rumors.

B. Warren has given up. Bernie is also on the verge of throwing in the the towel. The only person I know willing to present opposition/unification right now is the Tim Kaine crowd/NOVA dems who believe we should rally around Bernie's primary message. Even if he himself won't do it.

A. WELL WHAT WERE THE loving RUMORS

B. lol thats it? A white guy with a harmonica preaching liberalization and gay rights?

christ the DNC is hosed if true. Two weeks ago we were talking about the end of the RNC, and here we loving are.

Grondoth
Feb 18, 2011


White people didn't vote for Trump. He did worse with whites than Romney.

People didn't vote for Clinton. Cause she was a terrible candidate that somehow managed to run a campaign that seemed more like a vanity project than someone who's a reality TV star.

If we want to make a goddamn difference, it starts with this: we can't hate the people we're trying to help. The country didn't fail the democrats. The democrats failed the country.

The Kingfish
Oct 21, 2015


Condiv posted:

it's time to rebuild :dance:

the battle has just begun, actually. :(

Cyron
Mar 10, 2014

by zen death robot
People said Hillary was Cersei Lannister, she turn out to be Catelyn Stark. and yesterday was the red wedding.

Oh Snapple!
Dec 27, 2005

Venom Snake posted:




Warren doesn't want the Party reigns. It remains to be seen if Bernie wants them. I wouldn't blame him for giving up.

Do you think Democrats want Bernie to have the reigns and would actually allow him to take them if he himself actually wanted to?

slave to my cravings
Mar 1, 2007

Got my mind on doritos and doritos on my mind.
Are there any decent dem governors that aren't real old?

Venom Snake
Feb 19, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo

Zikan posted:

Since the party is effectively broken and leaderless, could a Jeremy Corbyn style takeover with the progressive caucus leading the charge with someone like Keith Ellison or Tulsi Gabbard succeed? Someone who just stands up and gives people someone to rally to by complete repudating CLintonism, who isn't perceived as from the Clintonite camp as Tim Kaine and the NoVa Dems? Or would there be too much backlash from the remaining Clintonites

"Clintonites" are not a thing anymore. Everyone just wants to move on. Tim Kaine and the NoVa dems want to give the reigns to the progressive wing and present an actual challenge to the GOP. The problem is the Progressives might have just given up.


Raskolnikov38 posted:

the 2020 primaries are going to be hilarious when Tim Kaine shows up in them thinking he has a snowball's chance in hell

He is not going to run for president. I know him personally. He's tired. But he knows if everyone gives up now were hosed.


FizFashizzle posted:

B. lol thats it? A white guy with a harmonica preaching liberalization and gay rights?

They are 100% willing to hand over everything to the left right now. Again I'm not saying they want control; all they want is the ship to not go under.

Condiv
May 7, 2008

Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod


Oh Snapple! posted:

Do you think Democrats want Bernie to have the reigns and would actually allow him to take them if he himself actually wanted to?

they better if they want to continue to exist

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Oh Snapple! posted:

Do you think Democrats want Bernie to have the reigns and would actually allow him to take them if he himself actually wanted to?

who loving else is there? the clintons spent 30 years making the democrats their personal machine and it got trump elected

slave to my cravings
Mar 1, 2007

Got my mind on doritos and doritos on my mind.
It's gonna be Cory booker and dems will never learn their lesson

Harald
Jul 10, 2009

LINKIN PARK


Cyron posted:

People said Hillary was Cersei Lannister, she turn out to be Catelyn Stark. and yesterday was the red wedding.

ill never understand anime

anime was right
Jun 27, 2008

death is certain
keep yr cool

Oh Snapple! posted:

Do you think Democrats want Bernie to have the reigns and would actually allow him to take them if he himself actually wanted to?

the democrats are loving done if they do not find a new direction right goddamn now lol

Venom Snake
Feb 19, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo

Oh Snapple! posted:

Do you think Democrats want Bernie to have the reigns and would actually allow him to take them if he himself actually wanted to?

There is nobody left to oppose him.

FizFashizzle
Mar 30, 2005







Venom Snake posted:


They are 100% willing to hand over everything to the left right now. Again I'm not saying they want control; all they want is the ship to not go under.

well poo poo in one hand and wish in the other

Mayor Dave
Feb 20, 2009

Bernie the Snow Clown

The Kingfish posted:

Things literally can't get any lower for the party, now is the perfect time for a civil war. The left wing needs to act quickly before the moderates can come up with some sort of coherent narrative about how this is secretly the left's fault.

the number of posts i've seen both here and on facebook blaming johnson/stein voters (lol) for this outcome would indicate that they've already settled on one

Oh Snapple!
Dec 27, 2005

Condiv posted:

they better if they want to continue to exist



Raskolnikov38 posted:

who loving else is there? the clintons spent 30 years making the democrats their personal machine and it got trump elected


My general perception is that the party politicians don't care for Bernie because they's affluent and comfortable capitalists and Bernie is A Threat to that lifestyle.

the bitcoin of weed
Nov 1, 2014

Oh Snapple! posted:

Do you think Democrats want Bernie to have the reigns and would actually allow him to take them if he himself actually wanted to?

look at the UK Labour party and ask yourself this again

(the answer is no, the fake-leftist shills would rather suicide bomb their own party than see actual leftist policy ever implemented)

Venom Snake
Feb 19, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo

slave to my cravings posted:

It's gonna be Cory booker and dems will never learn their lesson

There is no "dems" left to learn dude. We have the least amount of control in the history of the entire party lol

The Kingfish
Oct 21, 2015


Mayor Dave posted:

the number of posts i've seen both here and on facebook blaming johnson/stein voters (lol) for this outcome would indicate that they've already settled on one

The point is that the progressive wing needs to attack now, or else they will be swept up and carried away by the narrative like they were during the primary.

Main Paineframe
Oct 27, 2010

Oh Snapple! posted:

My general perception is that the party politicians don't care for Bernie because they's affluent and comfortable capitalists and Bernie is A Threat to that lifestyle.

There are no more "party politicians"

the Dems are dead, because apparently no one realized a professional fraudster and con artist could be an effective politician, and people thought that literally anything mattered

Beachcomber
May 21, 2007

Another day in paradise.


Slippery Tilde

anime was right posted:

the democrats are loving done if they do not find a new direction right goddamn now lol

Are you still going to do your effort post? I was looking forward to it.

Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3
Nov 15, 2003
https://usuncut.com/politics/bernie-sanders-vows-stop-donald-trump/

quote:

In a viral Facebook post, Senator Bernie Sanders (I-Vermont) has vowed to do everything in his power to block President-elect Trump’s agenda.

Sanders acknowledged that Trump’s narrow victory came about as a result of a wave of anti-establishment anger directed at Washington insiders like Hillary Clinton, and that Democrats failed to predict the wave of populist outrage that gave the GOP nominee a game-changing advantage.

However, the Vermont senator is rejecting President Obama’s and Clinton’s calls for unity behind the new president, saying he’ll only promise to work with Trump if the president-elect is serious about implementing progressive policies. Simultaneously, Sanders, who is the ranking member on the Senate Budget Committee, pledged to block any and all legislation Trump proposes that seeks to ensconce what he referred to as “racist, sexist, xenophobic and anti-environment policies.”

“We will vigorously oppose him,” Sanders said at the end of the post.

Sanders’ status update has gone viral, accumulating over 30,000 shares in less than 30 minutes as of this writing.

Bernie posted:

Donald Trump tapped into the anger of a declining middle class that is sick and tired of establishment economics, establishment politics and the establishment media. People are tired of working longer hours for lower wages, of seeing decent paying jobs go to China and other low-wage countries, of billionaires not paying any federal income taxes and of not being able to afford a college education for their kids - all while the very rich become much richer.

To the degree that Mr. Trump is serious about pursuing policies that improve the lives of working families in this country, I and other progressives are prepared to work with him. To the degree that he pursues racist, sexist, xenophobic and anti-environment policies, we will vigorously oppose him.

Venom Snake
Feb 19, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo

Oh Snapple! posted:

My general perception is that the party politicians don't care for Bernie because they's affluent and comfortable capitalists and Bernie is A Threat to that lifestyle.

They have either bent the knee or vacated the premises.

slave to my cravings
Mar 1, 2007

Got my mind on doritos and doritos on my mind.
I don't even know that a progressive platform beats trump in 2020 if that's the goal. If he has any kind of success I think he proves his entire campaign right. He is going to get off to a good start by taking credit for getting rid of ISIS in Iraq in early 2017.

CalvinCoolidge
Dec 27, 2008

I honestly believe that the slogan "America is great because America is good" is what single handedly killed her campaign.

Probably the worst call to action I've ever heard and whichever idiot on her staff came up with it should never be allowed to work in any marketing oriented job ever again.

Crazyweasel
Oct 29, 2006
lazy

I get we are in la la land over here in SA, but you have to be nuts to try to find a magical fairy progressive scion to get behind and win in 2020. A hell of a lot more Americans than anyone expected just made clear the 100 things they want from Government, it is time to maybe listen and adopt and adapt a few over time

logikv9
Mar 5, 2009


Ham Wrangler
I'm concerned that Trump is post-reality and his voters will will themselves into a placebo-type effect where they believe things are getting better while nothing changes / gets worse

Peel
Dec 3, 2007

so i'm british and something akin to this happened recently with us, as you may have heard

no not brexit. 2015 general election

the tories were stupid and incompetent and we had a milquetoast nonentity in charge of labour but it looked like they'd scrape it out anyway. but then the polls were wrong and the tories got a majority and 18 months later the country is imploding and labour is still in disarray.

so the sanders talk is similar to our corbyn talk. the old party establishment just wasn't working at all so we tried something new. and we've had a year of corbyn now so i can say some things about the experience

1. if you make a serious push to make the party go left (not just nonbinding platforms, but credible left policy) there will likely be deep deep resistance. the idea is anathema to a lot of wealthy liberals (not leftists) with entrenched power. you'll also face a hostile press which will make its peace with trump, or just with congressional republicans, or with leadership figures of the democratic right given permanent platforms to undermine you in the name of Seriousness.

2. corbyn genuinely isn't a very good politician but we have no alternative because our dnc-equivalent could slam down the door to any replacement if they were able to force him out. we're obligated to keep him due to the party civil war. try to make sure you don't get stuck in the same position.


but there's some good signs too. corbyn's rise was met with sheer panic and total resistance, sanders seems to have better relations with the dnc wing at least in public. and you can make a credible claim that the democratic coalition is the genuine majority of the country, just hobbled by suppression, gerrymandering, etc. it's harder to make that claim in the uk for labour.

Peel has issued a correction as of 01:52 on Nov 10, 2016

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

Zikan posted:

Since the party is effectively broken and leaderless, could a Jeremy Corbyn style takeover with the progressive caucus leading the charge with someone like Keith Ellison or Tulsi Gabbard succeed? Someone who just stands up and gives people someone to rally to by complete repudating CLintonism, who isn't perceived as from the Clintonite camp as Tim Kaine and the NoVa Dems? Or would there be too much backlash from the remaining Clintonites

Is it too late to draft Kshama Sawant?

The Kingfish
Oct 21, 2015


Crazyweasel posted:

I get we are in la la land over here in SA, but you have to be nuts to try to find a magical fairy progressive scion to get behind and win in 2020. A hell of a lot more Americans than anyone expected just made clear the 100 things they want from Government, it is time to maybe listen and adopt and adapt a few over time

We won't win in 2020, we'll be lucky to have reorganized by 2024.

feller
Jul 5, 2006


Venom Snake posted:

"Clintonites" are not a thing anymore. Everyone just wants to move on. Tim Kaine and the NoVa dems want to give the reigns to the progressive wing and present an actual challenge to the GOP. The problem is the Progressives might have just given up.


He is not going to run for president. I know him personally. He's tired. But he knows if everyone gives up now were hosed.


They are 100% willing to hand over everything to the left right now. Again I'm not saying they want control; all they want is the ship to not go under.

It hasn't been that long since Trump was declared the victor. How do you know all this about their new positions? How do they have these new positions already even? Has this been brewing for a while or is it a position made while in shock that can easily be changed later?

radical meme
Apr 17, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
Welp, that poo poo happened.

I finally recovered from my hangover and wanted to post in the Baloogan thread but it's already gone.

My two cents is that the people saying the Democrats lost touch with too many middle class white males is probably correct. Also, peepaw Bernie was not the answer. Socialism does not sell in the U.S., never has and never will in our lifetimes.

I'm glad C-SPAM is sticking around. Can't wait for the novels written about this.

Peel
Dec 3, 2007

Venom Snake posted:

There is nobody left to oppose him.

seriously: they'll appear, and rally, if a left wing seems to be seriously taking over

Lawman 0
Aug 17, 2010

I got two words for you folks: Basic income.

americong
May 29, 2013


Peel posted:

so i'm british and something akin to this happened recently with us, as you may have heard

no not brexit. 2015 general election

the tories were stupid and incompetent and we had a milquetoast nonentity in charge of labour but it looked like they'd scrape it out anyway. but then the polls were wrong and the tories got a majority and 18 months later the country is imploding and labour is still in disarray.

so the sanders talk is similar to our corbyn talk. the old party establishment just wasn't working at all so we tried something new. and we've had a year of corbyn now so i can say some things about the experience

1. if you make a serious push to make the party go left (not just nonbinding platforms, but credible left policy) there will likely be deep deep resistance. the idea is anathema to a lot of wealthy liberals (not leftists) with entrenched power. you'll also face a hostile press which will make its peace with trump, or just with congressional republicans, or with leadership figures of the democratic right given permanent platforms to undermine you in the name of Seriousness.

2. corbyn genuinely isn't a very good politician but we have no alternative because our dnc-equivalent could slam down the door to any replacement if they were able to force him out. we're obligated to keep him due to the party civil war. try to make sure you don't get stuck in the same position.


but there's some good signs too. corbyn's rise was met with sheer panic and total resistance, sanders seems to have better relations with the dnc wing at least in public. and you can make a credible claim that the democratic coalition is the genuine majority of the country, just hobbled by suppression, gerrymandering, etc. it's harder to make that claim in the uk for labour.

I get the vibe that sanders is genuinely just less of a dingus than corbyn

sanders is plainly too old to be the leader of the party anymore though imo

if only we had some genuinely talented politicians who also loved commie poo poo

slave to my cravings
Mar 1, 2007

Got my mind on doritos and doritos on my mind.

radical meme posted:

Welp, that poo poo happened.

I finally recovered from my hangover and wanted to post in the Baloogan thread but it's already gone.

My two cents is that the people saying the Democrats lost touch with too many middle class white males is probably correct. Also, peepaw Bernie was not the answer. Socialism does not sell in the U.S., never has and never will in our lifetimes.

I'm glad C-SPAM is sticking around. Can't wait for the novels written about this.

Socialism wasn't going to sell but any sort of populist anti-establishment message would have been a lot better than none.

The Kingfish
Oct 21, 2015


Venom Snake posted:

They are 100% willing to hand over everything to the left right now. Again I'm not saying they want control; all they want is the ship to not go under.

No way, that's not how this actually works. They don't have a plan right now, but I can guarantee they are not "100% willing to hand everything over to the left"

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Main Paineframe
Oct 27, 2010

logikv9 posted:

I'm concerned that Trump is post-reality and his voters will will themselves into a placebo-type effect where they believe things are getting better while nothing changes / gets worse

Worked for Obama and Bush, and they didn't even have the whole anti-establishment message as an excuse to fall back on

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