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Jonny 290 posted:just ignore race. talk about class. talk about income brackets, shut up about 'poor whites' and 'poor blacks' because that is dogwhistling anyways i don't think you can put racism not as central to trump's appeal given how much time he spent on the wall and banning muslims and so on but more importantly, a politics that ignores race is going to be completely impossible given the actual politics on the ground. the war over police brutality isn't going to quiet down now donald j. 'execute the central park five' trump is in charge at the head of a unified congress of vote-suppressors. you can't say 'we need a movement of the dispossessed' while ignoring the really existing movements of the dispossessed.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:19 |
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# ? Apr 26, 2024 20:20 |
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anime was right posted:hillary clinton was a greek tragedy waiting to happen.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:18 |
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anime was right posted:obamacare is better than not obamacare, straight up. yeah it was very very flawed and needed loads of work but it was way better than what we had. losing it will not help make healthcare better fast, it will accomplish literally the opposite. going back to square 1 does not benefit anyone.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:20 |
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Adventure Pigeon posted:On another note, why didn't she control outlets that were making GBS threads all over Sanders supporters or at least tell them they weren't helping? Did she think that letting them run the Bernie Bros meme would kill that movement faster while not saying anything herself would protect her from backlash? Or did she genuinely not have any control? It was her surrogates, especially David Brock, that created and pushed the Bernie Bro thing. She didn't try to stop it because it was part of her campaign.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:19 |
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comedyblissoption posted:hillary didnt lose b/c of misogyny of course its pure coincidence that the first female presidential candidate was also "historically unlikeable"
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:20 |
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anime was right posted:its part of the reason she lost and why she made some of the choices she did. and i think it affected her career much more than it did anyone at the voting booth imo.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:20 |
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Jonny 290 posted:just ignore race. talk about class. talk about income brackets, shut up about 'poor whites' and 'poor blacks' because that is dogwhistling anyways Yeah, but Bernie's gently caress up was ignoring the question of race as it pertained to class politics. Blacks automatically assume any ambitious social welfare program will screw them over because to date all ambitious social welfare programs have screwed them over. So when Bernie talked about class all they heard was 'white people'. Plus they had no loving clue who this old white jew from Vermont was making all these big promises, while they all new Clinton as a queen of retail politics. Gotta have specific minority planks in your class remedy platform from the start. Bernie didn't know, and Clinton seized on that poo poo.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:19 |
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Guy DeBorgore posted:
this. my GF's family is hosed now healthcare wise. sure PPACA could have been better, but they got basic healthcare cheaper and couldnt get kicked off. plus i turn 26 this coming January and i have medical poo poo i was born with. I am hosed. As other people have said in the old thread. i also blame the lefts obsession super identity politics(feelings are all that matters, you racist/sexits/homophobo/transphobe/etc).
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:20 |
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if misogyny is your primary takeaway for why clinton has lost you are not loving paying attention some of the criticisms of clinton are actually quite legitimate! stop plugging your ears and screaming la la la whenever someone criticizes your abuela. there's a reason why people loving hate her guts and it's not because she's a woman.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:21 |
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comedyblissoption posted:hillary didnt lose b/c of misogyny there doesn't need to be a single reason she lost its possible that clinton wins in the universe where everything is the same but she's a man, and the universe where american whites are less racist, and the universe where she's an economic populist, and the universe where everything was the same just with more resources in the midwest, and the universe where the pussy tape dropped ten days before the election rather than a month out and tbh i don't want to tell women not to lament misogyny just after the first major female candidate is beaten by a slavering rapist
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:24 |
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Before the Abuela thing was a hilarious meme (I'm guilty of this too) it should've loving terrified everyone. It's was so forced and painful to watch. Even if sexist people exist and your opposition lied about you for 20 loving years, you can't loving govern if you can't make people like you and win a election.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:24 |
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Adventure Pigeon posted:The only democratic revival that would be worth anything would be one that rekindles class consciousness. good old fashioned left wing infighting. im guilty of that to some extent, but my ire was focused on pissing on the ~10% of bernie-or-busters, but realising that it depress the 30% that was sorta-kinda pro-clinton but ended not having the energy to vote because i assumed they would loving vote jfc
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:25 |
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Venom Snake posted:Dude when Obamacare is gone a lot of people are going to die straight up. One of my closest friends is only alive today because of it. Do not poo poo talk it. This is the thing. ACA is literally life or death to some people. At the same time ACA is a massive burden on others (they would elect not to have health insurance at all and not pay the high premiums, any medical emergency is gonna bankrupt em anyways, lovely bronze plan or no, might as well save the $400 a month or whatever) Hillary chose to play up the fears of the life or death people while completely dismissing the concerns of the massive financial burden people. Turns out the financial burden people were a lot of poor rural whites who didn't like being brushed aside. E: Now everyone is probably going to lose ACA because they couldnt acknowledge the ACA was smothering some people and needed a massive overhaul.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:25 |
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Tatsuta Age posted:didn't read the thread but gently caress you venom snake v rude. venom snake has incremented towards leftism, while you refuse to pragmatically embrace the future
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:26 |
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Plank Walker posted:The fact that any polls had trump leading on "the economy" should be the focus Probably because when asked about her economic policy at the debate she just said "Solar" which, I mean, come on. Why would anyone want to emulate Spain?
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:25 |
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anime was right posted:hillary clinton was a greek tragedy waiting to happen.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:27 |
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:27 |
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Cubey posted:yeah it was very very flawed and needed loads of work but it was way better than what we had. losing it will not help make healthcare better fast, it will accomplish literally the opposite. going back to square 1 does not benefit anyone. Fortunately it can't just be repealed since the health industry requires it to function. It has to be replaced with something comprehensive. My guess is the republicans won't bother with that, so in the end it will be tweaked.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:27 |
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Not a Step posted:Yeah, but Bernie's gently caress up was ignoring the question of race as it pertained to class politics. Blacks automatically assume any ambitious social welfare program will screw them over because to date all ambitious social welfare programs have screwed them over. So when Bernie talked about class all they heard was 'white people'. Plus they had no loving clue who this old white jew from Vermont was making all these big promises, while they all new Clinton as a queen of retail politics. OK after thinking, i'm with this. One size does not fit all and a single mom of 3 in the bronx has a vastly different set of challenges than a family in Erie with a breadwinner that's on disability from the plant. i guess it's a thin line to walk between listening and patronizing/assuming
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:28 |
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Peel posted:there doesn't need to be a single reason she lost yup, this is my argument. i think it affected many of the (in hindsight, bad) choices she made because people were more antagonistic against her because she was a woman. it affected how she could and could not act, or at least forced her to make assumptions about how she could or could not act, and limited her ability to take risks. but she was still buddies with wall street, she still marketed herself poorly, she was still boring, and she was still the status quo when millions of people now have a lower quality of life than they did ten-twenty years ago and nothing changed under the new guy with the new ideas.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:29 |
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comedyblissoption posted:if misogyny is your primary takeaway for why clinton has lost you are not loving paying attention P much this. My ultra-conservative younger brother (at least compared to me; I've loved Bernie since before he ran) posted this after her concession speech:
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:30 |
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Not a Step posted:Yeah, but Bernie's gently caress up was ignoring the question of race as it pertained to class politics. Blacks automatically assume any ambitious social welfare program will screw them over because to date all ambitious social welfare programs have screwed them over. So when Bernie talked about class all they heard was 'white people'. Plus they had no loving clue who this old white jew from Vermont was making all these big promises, while they all new Clinton as a queen of retail politics. strictly speaking yes, this is why he lost the primary. it would not have lost him the general. bernie did make missteps (i still really hate jeff weaver) but he was right from day 1 and he would have won this poo poo. LegoPirateNinja posted:Fortunately it can't just be repealed since the health industry requires it to function. It has to be replaced with something comprehensive. My guess is the republicans won't bother with that, so in the end it will be tweaked. i really fuckin hope you are right.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:29 |
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Condiv posted:v rude. venom snake has incremented towards leftism, while you refuse to pragmatically embrace the future I voted for bernie in the primary so
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:34 |
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The Kingfish posted:I just realized that Bernie and Warren are the leaders of the party now. What about Obama??
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:33 |
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obama's going to leave washington DC for a silicon valley VC and never look back
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:34 |
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Venom Snake posted:Dude when Obamacare is gone a lot of people are going to die straight up. One of my closest friends is only alive today because of it. Do not poo poo talk it. That post is entirely within the context of what Not a Step essentially mentioned: the fight between Shills and Bernie folks in here over it, in which Bernie and his supporters were painted as heartless fucks who just wanted it gone, period. One of the exchanges that has always stuck with me was fishmech telling a dude whose wife actually ended up losing her insurance due to the ACA that not only did he not "give a poo poo" about the wife's "weird edge case" which had left her in constant pain (because more people have insurance, and that's all that matters), but that the poster was probably lying to begin with. That's loving horrible. How the gently caress does anyone who tries to identify as a progressive say something like that (besides "fishmech")? And yet it was said, and it was an attitude that was not limited just to him. All because Bernie ran with the ACA's issues as something in desperate need of fixing to make it a system that was good instead of simply having a few good things attached.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:35 |
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zen death robot posted:Al Franken 2020 How about we try someone other than a washed up unfunny has-been firmly planted in the establishment?
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:35 |
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:P much this. My ultra-conservative younger brother (at least compared to me; I've loved Bernie since before he ran) posted this after her concession speech: wikileaks
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:37 |
slave to my cravings posted:Socialism wasn't going to sell but any sort of populist anti-establishment message would have been a lot better than none. People vote for "gently caress the rich elite assholes who are loving us!" without reading too deep in the how. Ergo Trump. Socialism would sell just fine if wrapped appropriately.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:36 |
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Flubby posted:I know this is off-topic and probably inflammatory, but I think you have to give credit to Venom. He was around last night, through all that poo poo. Where is Epic High Five and A Winner Is Jew and about five other turd burglars that laughed down at anyone that called out Hillary as being a weak candidate? Rats off a sinking ship, gone before the waters had even gotten rough, and probably trying to duck their ban. poo poo on and ridicule anyone not in their group think bubble and when the poo poo hits the fan, poof. Gone. i hope they gently caress off forever because the Hill Gang were collectively the most awful and insufferable posters here e: to clarify VS is cool and i hope he sticks around
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:37 |
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Vox Nihili posted:What about Obama?? Thanks, Obama.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:37 |
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Cubey posted:strictly speaking yes, this is why he lost the primary. it would not have lost him the general. Oh yeah, Im 100% on the Bernie Bus and was from the start. Bernie would have been extremely competitive and could have delivered the Rust Belt on par with Obama (if not more), although probably at the cost of turnout in the coastal cities which who the gently caress even cares they always go blue anyways. But Bernie got dismantled by a more experienced opponent labeling his supporters as sexists and racists, his policies as neglecting blacks and impossible (while providing jack poo poo of her own), and his record as fake and stolen (lol Bruce Rappaport was a loving thing this election, just lol forever at what Hillary won't stoop to). He also made plenty of his own mistakes out of inexperience that Hillary capitalized on, and ultimately nobody knew who he was because he started his national campaign way too late and the media was not on his side. If there had been a DNC dedicated to helping all candidates succeed and if Clinton hadnt been, well, Clinton I think we could have avoided this darkest timeline.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:38 |
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Oh Snapple! posted:That post is entirely within the context of what Not a Step essentially mentioned: the fight between Shills and Bernie folks in here over it, in which Bernie and his supporters were painted as heartless fucks who just wanted it gone, period. One of the exchanges that has always stuck with me was fishmech telling a dude whose wife actually ended up losing her insurance due to the ACA that not only did he not "give a poo poo" about the wife's "weird edge case" which had left her in constant pain (because more people have insurance, and that's all that matters), but that the poster was probably lying to begin with. That's loving horrible. How the gently caress does anyone who tries to identify as a progressive say something like that (besides "fishmech")? And yet it was said, and it was an attitude that was not limited just to him. All because Bernie ran with the ACA's issues as something in desperate need of fixing to make it a system that was good instead of simply having a few good things attached. a lot of the bernie supporters were openly being accelerationist assholes after he lost, hence why they were known for wanting to tear everything down because they didn't get 100% of what they wanted immediately
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:38 |
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Venom Snake, I hope you're right the DNC will bend the knee to Sanders. I was basically a establishment backer (New York Yuppie liberal that donated every four years) my entire life, and holy poo poo, I want to run the Clinton's out of the country right now. In all honesty, I mocked Sander's chances during the primaries, but he was absolutely right about everything so gently caress me. I'm not really alone either. There's just a complete collapse in faith in the DNC amongst the liberal professionals I know, and they backed Clinton 100% until the moment everyone realized they were taken for a ride. If the Sanders faction makes a play for New York, DO NOT loving block him. You're risking open war with your ur-base.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:38 |
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Nuclearmonkee posted:People vote for "gently caress the rich elite assholes who are loving us!" without reading too deep in the how. Ergo Trump. Call it Americanism. No seriously. Call it Americanism.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:38 |
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Not a Step posted:If there had been a DNC dedicated to helping all candidates succeed and if Clinton hadnt been, well, Clinton I think we could have avoided this darkest timeline. The DNC's idiotic "clearing the bench" operation for Clinton is gonna go down as one of the worst mistakes in American political history. The only credible opponent to Hillary was Sanders; the rest of them were mediocrities and unknowns like O'Malley and Chafee. I can't imagine that a competitive primary between Clinton, Biden, Sanders, maybe Warren or Klobuchar or Gilibrand or whoever else, would not have produced a stronger general election candidate. Wasserman-Schulz was beyond incompetent and Obama should have fired her when he had the chance, costs be damned.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:41 |
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Yinlock posted:a lot of the bernie supporters were openly being accelerationist assholes after he lost, hence why they were known for wanting to tear everything down because they didn't get 100% of what they wanted immediately see i was an accelerationist rear end in a top hat before he lost after it was clear that bernie was gonna lose and trump was gonna be the gop cadnidate i every quickly switched my tune and supported hillary because the actual reality of a trump accelerationist universe was too terrifying well here we are now
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:40 |
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Yinlock posted:a lot of the bernie supporters were openly being accelerationist assholes after he lost, hence why they were known for wanting to tear everything down because they didn't get 100% of what they wanted immediately oh loving please. this was well before he lost
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:40 |
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Yinlock posted:a lot of the bernie supporters were openly being accelerationist assholes after he lost, hence why they were known for wanting to tear everything down because they didn't get 100% of what they wanted immediately They were going to get 0% of what they wanted at all. I wonder if that ever became a pattern...
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:41 |
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# ? Apr 26, 2024 20:20 |
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KiteAuraan posted:present a unified populist vision to people moving forward. highlight that it is the forces of global capitalism that have failed them, that the jobs they want, high paying manufacturing jobs, are never coming back, that unless they accept a hellfucked environment and $1.00 a day wages they will never have a textile factory in south carolina again. highlight how Trump is a loving liar, how he promised them something he can't deliver, how he is NOT their voice, he just lies to them for power and prestige. hammer hard on how he and the republicans are failing them. use the mass support for minimum wage increases (an increase to $12 an hour passed in loving arizona, goddamn) to highlight how the republicans want to take that away from them, and they'll have to fight with vote and union to stop them. show them that Trump is the very jetsetting global elite that is loving them and that it is not the workers of the developing world who are ruining them, those are just poor souls even more hosed by the elite than they. give them data and info in a digestible form about the Koch brothers, the capitalists, the bankers and multinational global elites, who live in the united states, but are not their saviors or their allies. tell them that coal is dead globally, the price is never going to rise, that you may have work but it will be for below-poverty wages with little to no safety. offer them hope from that in government programs to retrain, and if they can't retrain, a GMI to let them live comfortably. sell it as coming from higher taxes on the us-based global capitalist that is ruining them. do that and you'll get back the people who split for Trump, you'll wide the wave and gently caress it, you will goddamn try. The question was, did you want some straws for your soda cup? (try to use less words in C-SPAM to make your points, thanks.)
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:42 |