NBA Draft 2017: It's not "my pick."

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > NBA Draft 2017: It's not "my pick."

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Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

There's speculation that Fultz agreed to a competitive workout just to show Lonzo up. The the special Lonzo workout was them following him around for four hours and watching his routine. In a year of embarrassment this ranks up there.

Beller posted:

It's going to be really funny if Lonzo turns out to be the best player in this draft.

If miracles are funny, sure.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2017 09:59

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# ¿ May 9, 2024 10:28

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Did they really live stream the workout? Twitter is flooded with "he looked bad" tweets. Is this Celtic Fan Effect?

Lol, also he is saying he won't work out again for Boston so he's even better at Draft Manipulation than Lonzo Ball is.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2017 02:35

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Ammanas posted:

1 to 3 is fine in this draft.

It's not.

From the perspective of the Celtics where they're using these picks to try to bring in Jimmy Butler, the move is totally understandable even a probable rookie superstar is usually not as good as a right-now superstar (E: although reading the G/V thread maybe the deal isn't so good after all).

But no, Jackson isn't remotely as good of a prospect as Fultz, no one else in the draft is. Maybe Markkanen can play enough defense to play, maybe Jackson or Fox get a haircut, maybe Ball gets a first step or a midrange jumper, learns to play pick and roll, gets more athletic, grows to the actual height his dad is pretending he is, or is somehow so good at fast breaks he reverses twenty year NBA trend. If those things happen to those players, (or maybe Fultz's knee blows up) maybe those guys are better than Fultz. But considering what Fultz can do now, and where the league is at now, there just is no one in this class who has an easier path to being good.

Rick fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Jun 18, 2017

# ¿ Jun 18, 2017 09:15

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

The DX dude has seemed pretty in touch with Boston's thinking so far this season.

I guess, if I'm going to rationalize it, it is weird that the Celtics were seemingly so high on Josh Jackson when he so far has not worked out for them (NOT that this usually matters, but I'm pretending it does to rationalize). They have worked Tatum out, and were impressed by him. Tatum at 3 is probably fine (Generic College PF/Pro SF NBA Semi-Ready player), and like it definitely doesn't look like that's a direction the Lakers were going at all. So I guess if Tatum was their dude it doesn't matter if the Lakers pick Jackson or Ball. I dunno, I guess Tatum is a pretty safe pick overall, albeit a boring one.

E: Clearly what is going to happen is that the Celtics are now going to step into whatever deal that the Suns were offering the Lakers for 2, get yet another pick out of this (half joking, although the Celtics are interviewing Markkanen and DSJ today it's not that outlandish) and get their guy Tatum at 4.

---

Man what happened, OG Anuoby has fallen almost 10 spots in a week. Did someone find out his injury was worse?

Rick fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Jun 18, 2017

# ¿ Jun 18, 2017 14:09

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Redgrendel2001 posted:

https://twitter.com/Schultz_Report/status/876558456676913153

Lmao.

ButtWolf posted:

Jordan Bell is a 'film buff', here is his top 5
1. Transformers, the 3rd one
2. The Color Purple
3. Purple Rain
4. Con Air
5. Life

I'm taking him off of my big board.

That is awesome, he's moving UP my big board.

ButtWolf posted:

I really really dont like Tony Bradley. He seems like maybe you might take a chance at 55 or something, but he looks like a nothing to me.

I've never got him at all. Like he was a situational player in college, so now someone's going to draft him with a first round pick? Doesn't make sense. I guess he did have the play of the playoffs with that rebound but that seems like a rough reason to draft someone.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2017 00:21

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Getting a minor in film taught me that people under 25 who have a top 5 list that doesn't contain mostly fun movies are usually not fun to be around.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2017 01:34

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

I might revise this again (especially the second round) before the draft but here is my current mock, more of an attempt at prediction than BPA order. I tried to factor in need and who teams worked out if I had any question about a pick, but am welcome to feedback from people following their teams more closely than me.

code:

1	Sixers	Markelle Fultz
2	Lakers	Josh Jackson
3	Boston	Jayson Tatum
4	Suns	Lonzo Ball
5	Kings	De'Aron Fox
6	Magic	Johnathan Issac
7	Timberwolves	Malik Monk
8	Knicks	Frank Ntilikina
9	Mavs	Dennis Smith Jr.
10	Kings	Lauri Markkanen
11	Hornets	Luke Kennard
12	Pistons	Donovan Mitchell
13	Nuggets	Zach Collins
14	Heat	Jarret Allen
15	Blazers	Terrance Ferguson
16	Bulls	Tyler Lydon
17	Bucks	Bam Adebayo
18	Pacers	Justin Jackson
19	Hawks	Rodions Kurucs
20	Blazers	Justin Patton
21	Thunder	Jawun Evans
22	Nets	Ike Anibogu
23	Raptors	Ivan Rabb
24	Jazz	Semi Ojeleye
25	Magic	Og Anunoby
26	Blazers	Isiah Hartenstein
27	Nets	DJ Wilison
28	Lakers	Josh Hart
29	Spurs	Jordan Bell
30	Jazz	Harry Giles
31	Hawks	Wesley Iwundu
32	Suns	PJ Dozier
33	Magic	Jonathan Motley
34	Kings	Azejs Pasecniks
35	Magic	Tony Bradley
36	Sixers	Mathias Lessort
37	Celtics	Alec Peters
38	Bulls	Frank Mason
39	Sixers	Jaron Blossomgame
40	Pelicans	Edmond Sumner
41	Hornets	Caleb Swanigan
42	Jazz	DIllon Brooks
43	Rockets	Monte Morris
44	Knicks	Sterling Brown
45	Rockets	Kadeem Allen
46	Sixers	Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk
47	Pacers	Tyler Dorsey
48	Bucks	Alberto Abalde
49	Nuggets	Jonah Bolden
50	Sixers	Vlatko Cancar
51	Nuggets	Omer Yurtseven
52	Wizards	Sindarius Thornwell
53	Celtics	Aleksander Venzenkov
54	Suns	Laurynas Birutis
55	Jazz	Damyean Dotson
56	Celtics	Alpha Kaba
57	Nets	Thomas Bryant
58	Knicks	Isaac Hamilton
59	Spurs	Amile Jefferson
60	Hawks	LJ Peak

# ¿ Jun 19, 2017 08:09

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Bush Did Outer Heaven posted:

Kurucs withdrew from the draft, Hawks U will have to find another amorphous wing to be their next enrollee.

Ah that makes sense.

Adun posted:

I feel like you forgot about Frank Jackson

I did.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2017 21:39

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

He got Byron Scott disease but no, nothing wrong with him, he's on a relatively affordable contract too: that makes him the Lakers best tradeable asset. Throw in that that his value probably won't ever be higher considering it looks like the Lakers are going to draft someone who's going to eat into his minutes.

# ¿ Jun 20, 2017 01:01

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Dejan Bimble posted:

Kennard for D'angelo Russel would be such a loving steal both in raw talent terms and team construction.
They don't have to worry about Reggie and his destroyed knees, Ish can take his natural place as a dynamic third pg who cannot make a shot, and they have their long term pg, who makes shots off the dribble, and opens up everything for Drummond, for Pope, for Jonny Leueur in the corner. He might be a bit slow and a snitch but oh my gorsh it takes pistons from ehh maybe playoff team to a hey this team might have some upside team.

It's an even worse deal if that dude is Collins since he's major project that they don't have the minutes to develop. I've seen a lot floating around the past 24 hours that he's KAT 2.0 and I'm just laughing. Where do people get these ideas from?

El Gallinero Gros posted:

Is Jackson basically a better Gerald Wallace? From how you guys talk about him it sounds like it.

He's the best slasher and finisher prospect in like a good ten years. The problem is those players have never been more out of favor or struggled more. The question is, can a player who has a bigger toolbox of moves in the paint than guys Winslow or Stanley Johnson

If it was the 00s he would be the first pick without any hesitation.

Dutchy posted:

now that the process works apparently it's time for 50 win teams to start emulating it

Well, the fact that half the second round is basically five teams this year might be a sign that teams are trying to, but just kind of missing the point.

# ¿ Jun 20, 2017 07:08

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Wight Howard definitely still counts.

# ¿ Jun 21, 2017 02:11

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

kiimo posted:

What started with the Jerry West thing might have been the first sign that the Lakers are in big trouble letting someone run the place with such little experience.

This is the problem: he doesn't have little experience. He has a lot of experience being bad at basketball at a management level.

# ¿ Jun 21, 2017 05:41

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

kiimo posted:

Chad Ford‏Verified account @chadfordinsider 31m 31 minutes ago
More

Chad Ford Retweeted Chuck M.

This is a disagreement between his agent and Celtics. Don't pin it on Jackson. He's the most competitive/fearless player in the draft

I do enjoy when something that I joked about is apparently true.

# ¿ Jun 21, 2017 21:10

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Bush Did Outer Heaven posted:

My understanding is that Magic and Rob (a budget software title from the 1990s) are looking to pair George with an all star in the summer of 2018. Trying to sign both George and another 30-35% max FA simultaneously would be extraordinarily difficult because of the sheer amount of space required. If the Lakers did nothing right now except make their draft selections, they would need upwards of 65 million in space to offer George or LeBron their max deals. To get there they would need to renounce everyone they can, and shed every salary except perhaps Lonzo, Zubac, and maybe their rookies. Even then they might be short. To the extent that this is possible (maybe tacking Ingram or future picks to Deng or Clarkson to move them), it would still not be desirable in terms of building a good team.

The less destructive strategy would involve giving up some assets now (but maybe not Ingram and multiple future picks) to acquire George. The path to a single max slot in the summer of 18, even with George's big ole cap hold, won't include stripping the entire roster bare and will be more palatable for that reason. That path could include more moderate steps, like renouncing Lopez and stretching Deng. Off the top of my head I don't know if it's possible to get to two 35% max spots with only George's cap hold and empty roster charge spots on the books.

The Lakers had 46 million in 2018 committed salary that is Ingram, Zubac, Mosgov, Deng and Clarkson. In additional to that 46 million, you had salary slots for this year's #2 pick and the 28 that was committed. Everything else was cap holds, mainly for Russell & Nance's options, and Randle's RFA (although the Lakers have several other expiring contracts for that season that one can assume they are renouncing the bird rights for). This plus stretching/paying someone to take Deng or Mosgov is two max contracts. They could have stretched Deng/Mosgov or Clarkson to create a single max roster spot (Stretching Clarkson actually would've been a pretty good idea, since he almost for sure would've signed a deal large enough to offset most of the stretch). Ingram and the guys who are picked this year never were going to need to be moved.

As it stands now, to create the second max they are still going to have to get rid of Randle. It does open up the option of them stretching Deng to keep Nance.

If they trade for George before that point, their cap hold for him is going to be 5% higher although I don't know if it makes the difference between keeping Nance or not.

I dunno, I think I would've rather had a year to see if Russell makes the typical 3rd year surge and to see Lonzo has an actual NBA skill, and feeling the climate out a bit on George and Lebron to know if they're actually moving. I mean in theory Rob Pelinka was supposed to be the dishonest GM who would tamper to find stuff out where Mitch Kupchak wouldn't, that was his literal selling point.

Rick fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Jun 22, 2017

# ¿ Jun 22, 2017 00:26

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Tatum has less upside than Jackson, but also less risk, at least on offense. Tatum is a pretty nothing defender, but there are a few people who strongly think Jackson's defense won't translate, and while it's contrary to what most people think, and what I think, honestly I've seen enough good college defenders not translate to die on that hill.

I would say a player like Tatum gets drafted every draft, and 3 out of 5 turn out to be okay.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2017 02:16

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

xbilkis posted:

Are people starting to suggest Boston should take Isaac at #3 because he's actually worth it, or just because his flaws are more subtle (and less broadly discussed) than Jackson/Tatum

I think you're on to something, although I think it's important that people remember Florida State basically was the perfect situation for Issac, he was usually playing next to veteran (for college) bigs who did all the dirty work, and they ran an offense where any sort of contribution from him was a bonus, so they didn't really have to test him much.

I think taking Issac as what he actually is, there's a significant larger amount of risk, he's very raw. Both Tatum and Jackson had bigger expectations, and met those expectations for the most part, and have more defined roles going into the NBA. But drat that length is impressive. And sometimes that shot goes in.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2017 02:42

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Dejan Bimble posted:

Porzingis is a hit, and, mm do you want to say yes to Harrison Barnes? For his spot, sure.

Then you have a lot of guys drafted after the lottery or in the second round who developed a shot along with good defense. Otherwise you have college threes who were shifted up a position.

Yeah definitely. I think a lot of it is sample size. Most of the guys touted as stretch bigs spent very little time doing that in college, so people are basically trying to turn a guy who was a traditional PF in college, who hit a three a few times a game, into full time stretch bigs and it just isn't happening (to beat an old drum again, this is partly why Markkanen is so interesting because he basically actually played a very NBA-style big-that-sometimes-stretches role in college). I'm also nervous of guys like Collins and Issac who were heavily protected on their teams from doing stuff to make them look bad. You almost need to see what a guy looks like when it's not easy, especially for bigs.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2017 02:59

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Lmao Ball as McGreggor is wonderful on many levels. The fans in LA are so disconnected in the same way some UFC fans are. I just don't understand how we have come this far with most people not examining Ball at all. For the posts about people being too hard on him for his dad my it actually looks like it gave him perfect cover.

I think the Spurs and Mavs have demonstrated that if your big really really tries, you can end up having a good defense even if he is not a great defender. I think Lauri at the very least is going to try.

Ojeleye is interesting to me, too. I am hoping the Lakers take him if he is still there, but I toyed with mocking him fairly high because the wings after Kennard are all risks.

Love your description of Fultz as basically the Megazord/Voltron of good offensive players.

I totally agree on Fox but man his personality is really infectious. I'm starting to really root for his haircut. If the Lakers chose him instead of Ball I'd wish I could backflip.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2017 05:33

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

It is really a contrast watching Kentucky switch Bam onto Ball and Ball is unable to get by him, and then watch Fox get past both the first and second line in the next cut.

Man if teams can switch the big onto Ball the Lakers are in trouble. People clown on D'Angelo's athleticism but at least in situations like that which the guard generally wins he can get to the rim.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2017 06:18

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Cool Buff Man posted:

Yeah, I just mean I'm pretty sure Magic is going to run everything through him. I absolutely think he'll probably bust or be underwhelming because of his limitations (sorry Rick)

I've become numb.

Kibner posted:

I don't think I would say Lonzo is a better athlete than Rubio. Ricky was actually a good defender overseas against guys that are just as quick and stronger than the guys that constantly get past Ball. Rubio is also actually able to get into the paint with his dribble. Ball had a great 2pt% because most of his shots were assisted since he is a fantastic off-ball cutter and UCLA had at least three other guys who demanded heavy defensive attention at all times. He very rarely got to the rim on his own. He also only had 24 shots out of the pick and roll his entire time at UCLA. That's less than one per game he played.

Ball looks more like a wing that needs others to create for him while he serves as a cutter, outlet, and fulcrum of a passing attack than the ball-dominant, pass-first, good defensive PG that was Rubio.

Thank you, I've just ran out of energy to keep pointing this out to people.

At one point in Simmons latest podcast he goes on for like 20 minutes about how sad he is that the Celtics passed on Ball and that he is driving around fearing a future where he regrets that they didn't pick him (even though he got personally insulting with Josh Jackson earlier for not working out for the Celtics) and hearing the things he thinks about him, I just don't know where people got the ideas they do.

Lunsku posted:

For a Finn whose teenage sport was basketball, seeing Markkanen hopefully drafted within first ten tonight is pretty big. The country has had a decent basketball boom at the national team level the past few years, and pretty certainly the country's biggest NBA prospect ever will just help things.

I apologize for what all the people who don't watch college basketball that takes place later than 4:00 PM Pacific Time have done to Markkanen's stock the past two months.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2017 21:22

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# ¿ May 9, 2024 10:28

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Here is my final mock. It is funny that it was noticed I forgot Frank Jackson in 2.0 but not TJ Leaf, lol.

code:

1	Sixers	Markelle Fultz
2	Lakers	Lonzo Ball
3	Boston	Johnathan Issac
4	Suns	Jayson Tatum
5	Kings	De'Aron Fox
6	Magic	Josh Jackson
7	Timberwolves	Malik Monk
8	Knicks	Frank Ntilikina
9	Mavs	Dennis Smith Jr.
10	Kings	Lauri Markkanen
11	Hornets	Luke Kennard
12	Pistons	Donovan Mitchell
13	Nuggets	OG Anunoby
14	Heat	Zach Collins
15	Blazers	Terrance Ferguson
16	Bulls	Tyler Lydon
17	Bucks	Bam Adebayo
18	Pacers	Justin Jackson
19	Hawks	Isiah Hartenstein
20	Blazers	Justin Patton
21	Thunder	Jawun Evans
22	Nets	Ike Anibogu
23	Raptors	Ivan Rabb
24	Jazz	Semi Ojeleye
25	Magic	Jarret Allen
26	Blazers	John Collins
27	Lakers	TJ Leaf
28	Lakers	Josh Hart
29	Spurs	Jordan Bell
30	Jazz	Harry Giles
31	Hawks	DJ Wilison
32	Suns	Frank Jackson
33	Magic	Jonathan Motley
34	Kings	Azejs Pasecniks
35	Magic	Wesley Iwundu
36	Sixers	Mathias Lessort
37	Celtics	Alec Peters
38	Bulls	Frank Mason
39	Sixers	PJ Dozier
40	Pelicans	Edmond Sumner
41	Hornets	Caleb Swanigan
42	Jazz	DIllon Brooks
43	Rockets	Monte Morris
44	Knicks	Sterling Brown
45	Rockets	Kadeem Allen
46	Sixers	Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk
47	Pacers	Tyler Dorsey
48	Bucks	Alberto Abalde
49	Nuggets	Jonah Bolden
50	Sixers	Vlatko Cancar
51	Nuggets	Omer Yurtseven
52	Wizards	Sindarius Thornwell
53	Celtics	Aleksander Venzenkov
54	Suns	Laurynas Birutis
55	Jazz	Damyean Dotson
56	Celtics	Alpha Kaba
57	Nets	Thomas Bryant
58	Knicks	Isaac Hamilton
59	Spurs	Amile Jefferson
60	Hawks	Jarron Blossomgame

# ¿ Jun 22, 2017 23:19

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > NBA Draft 2017: It's not "my pick."

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