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blue squares posted:Here's how you fix things: You gently caress with their money. Striking and rioting aren't necessarily opposites. quote:I think Zizek is right. It would be better for the left if protesters stopped protesting and thought about what should actually be done. We'll reach a point where the options are either nazis or liquidating nazis and their enablers in the capitalist class (hint: it will be most of it if it comes to that, bottom line trumps social justice) . Agnosticnixie fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 22:57
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The Kingfish posted:Actually neolibs love protesting. It makes their constituency feel busy while nothing gets done and the political pressure gets transferred to local governments and police. Now is the time for planning, and strategy, for figuring out what the left's next step is. Neolibs only love protesting when it's not against them. Clinton went down hard at the anti-globalization protests, and we also got the incredibly tepid reaction to BLM until they became politically expedient to support, and the additional "lol gently caress occupy" before that. The problem is that a lot of these protests are going to end up like the anti-war movement.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:18
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DeusExMachinima posted:Protesting is one thing, even if I'm skeptical of its effectiveness. But please, please don't engage in "direct action." You're just going to make life harder for small business owners and their employees who are trying to get by, possibly discredit yourselves (including the protestors who didn't burn anything down) in observers' eyes, and stand a somewhat elevated chance of gobbling lead from someone defending their livelihood. Don't do it. Small business owners are only very rarely better employers and generaly tend to act like petty tyrants because their employees have less recourse, they're not, on the whole, that much more deserving of respect than major CEOs. Also I would surmise that a lot of the angriest are people who work for small businesses.
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Nov 13, 2016 22:09
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:Escalade things slowly until you get the federal government involved or police starts asking for OT they'll never get. Also, the main worry with that is that it could lead to what happened in the 30s with the first serious electoral of the nazis came from the fact that germany looked like it was on the verge of civil war (admittedly the nazis had a lot to do with that but yeah). I do sincerely worry more about people getting shot by both cops and fascist vigilantes than about loving tear gas (but then again my city is getting used to getting blanketed in Tear gas every may 1st)
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Nov 13, 2016 22:14
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DeusExMachinima posted:Finally, an edge sharp enough to end capitalism. Destroying someone's livelihood isn't justified just because you made a sweeping judgment based on someone else's wrongdoings. And if you think it does, understand that winding up to throw a molly into a building that someone's inside constitutes a grievous threat to life and limb and makes you a valid target. They're 100% justified in firing every bullet they have if that's what it takes to kill you and anyone participating in what you're doing. Hanging around after you threw it and/or generally doing anything besides immediately running the gently caress away will continue to make you a valid target because you've already demonstrated a willingness to try to kill them with a thrown incendiary device once, you may do it again. You call that edge, I call that a position that's been the standard line about the petty bourgeoisie in communism since the 1850s and that small businesses have rarely given any reason to change. Small business owners, on the whole, are probably more likely to have voted Trump.
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Nov 13, 2016 22:48
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DeusExMachinima posted:Congrats on your deader-than-dead ideology. If you throw flammable poo poo into an occupied building, you're the threat and they're in the right to kill you. And even if you don't care about my bougie conceptions of property, you should care about people's lives, so be aware that you can never be sure in many cases whether or not a building is empty. "My" deader than dead ideology (I'm not a marxist) didn't just get owned as it proclaimed eternal victory forever and the end of history just at the beginning of a new fascist wave. You're not going to convince the angry to not be angry just because it's a small business in the way rather than a big one. Riots are what happens when popular anger needs an outlet and doesn't have one. And purely putting the blame on outside anarchists isn't going to make the people who are rioting give a gently caress. Media will always find people to scapegoat, will always find reasons to claim a protest is violent, the moment it goes against what they want which is stability more than social progress. I've been in protests with 0 arrests and maybe one window broken that were either minimized or turned into ultra-violent shitshows in the media's descriptions of it.
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Nov 13, 2016 23:06
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Aesop Poprock posted:Claiming you can do whatever you want because you assume the person whose livelihood you're harming voted for Trump is the dumbest thing imaginable and you're a terrible loving idiot if you think you can justify it Look, I'm glad your dad is "a good one" but on the whole as a broad cultural thing we put small business owners on a loving pedestal that most of them do not deserve anymore than any wall-street CEOs. My personal opinion on that doesn't even matter though because ultimately you're not going to be doing anything but ride on a high horse once the MSM falls in line and starts making sure not a single drat protest gets described as anything but an angry anarchistic bloodbath. Anarchists agitators are the liberal version of crisis actors.
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Nov 14, 2016 01:00
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DeusExMachinima posted:If that ain't making excuses while leaving yourself an easy out if anyone tries to call you on it, I dunno what is. I'm not saying people should do it nor that I plan on doing it, I'm saying that it's a bullshit thing to cry about hypothetical windows when actual people are getting shot in the streets. quote:If you really want to strike fear into the hearts of the ruling class (and, I suspect, if you want to convince more people to join your cause), show up in a tie or at least business casual, march in an orderly fashion, stick to a few slogans, then go home. CNN posted:One hundred people marched for god knows what reason, now our human interest segment for the night Protests either get ignored or villified, there is only extremely rarely a middle point to that unless they don't threaten the status quo.
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Nov 14, 2016 02:33
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None of this poo poo about marching in business suits is new and I can say I've heard it about literally every movement since I've been politically aware, which goes back to my teens, so like early Bush II years. People dressing seemingly nicer at MLK marches was easier when that's what fashion was at the time, and when it wasn't actually an expensive outlay for clothes you won't wear more than a handful of times every year. It's not the reason people listened to them.
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Nov 14, 2016 03:43
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apropos to nothing posted:Hmm ok let's just wait until he does something horrible...and done. He has used disparaging language towards women, latin peoples, and immigrants. He has called for a religious ban on all people of the Muslim faith. He has promised to forcibly and violently remove millions of people from our country based on their immigration status. He has just yesterday appointed a white supremacist one of his senior aides. I think that's more than enough to get angry and organize over. I think you mean a former Goldman Sachs executive  Media normalizing this poo poo is bad enough at this point.
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Nov 14, 2016 13:09
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