The Power and the Glory: An Artila's Story - A Geneforge SSLP

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > The Power and the Glory: An Artila's Story - A Geneforge SSLP

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mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

Wish this game had a soundtrack, music-less games tend to feel odd to me.

Anyways, been a while since I've played through these games. Maybe I should give it a reinstall and play through again (lord knows I need a break from Overwatch).

# ¿ Nov 25, 2016 12:57

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 17:22

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

Oh, hey. If you're still taking names, name some fodder after me. I'll take a few hits for ya.

Playing agent for the first time. It's surprisingly easy (easier than my Shaper run was). You have use the games equivalent of stealth, but it works pretty well once you get it down.

Though geneforge without the creations backing you up does feel kinda odd. Like not using the secret sauce that turns a great dish into an amazing dish.

mauman fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Nov 26, 2016

# ¿ Nov 26, 2016 06:32

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

wiegieman posted:

The real problem with the Emus was that they would kick down fences and allow rabbits (a very damaging invasive pest in Australia) to run amok. In an act so out of the Shaper playbook it's frightening, the Australian government released targeted germ warfare controls in the form of the myxoma virus, and later supplemented it with calcivirus, which escaped containment during field trials and is currently ravaging invasive populations in dry areas (a benign variant that exists in Australia's colder climes has resulted in a resistance in the population of those areas.)

This is why the Shapers are paranoid.

My cousin in Arizona just got stung by a few killer bees.

Given that Killer bees are a real-life shaper result..... :downs:

# ¿ Nov 27, 2016 04:55

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

So I'm utterly failing to see why Agent is supposed to be "harder" than the other classes. These gals own.

POOL IS CLOSED posted:

I can safely promise you that we, and Solution, will see much worse!

mauman fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Nov 28, 2016

# ¿ Nov 28, 2016 04:53

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

vdate posted:

Presumably due to the relative lack of/ relatively low quality of meatshields to spread the fire so you don't get focused down by turrets or whatever? (I suppose Guardians would have the same problem except they at least get Normal and not Weak costs on Shaping skills).

Eh....

There's enough freebie points in this game you can easily have 7 or so Fyroa taking hits for you in the event that you need meatshields. Sure, they take only one hit, but that's 7 hits worth of shields, and those weak summons are still pretty darn dangerous when buffed up.

It's not even that hard to get freebie fire shaping points early on if you know where to look.

Little note, while it's under shaping skills, Spellcraft does increase healing craft magic.

ashnjack posted:

Is there any option to not ally with any of the groups and wipe them out like the rogue creations they are?

Omnicidal neutral is definitely an option in this game. Not so much in the later games to my annoyance. Of course this hurts you massively due to lack of money from merchants (which is actually very useful in this game, unlike most rpgs) and quests which can get you good gear.

Course you can drain the merchants dry of available funds first and always find gear before slaughter time if you want to have your cake and eat it.

mauman fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Nov 28, 2016

# ¿ Nov 28, 2016 06:30

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

When Vogel does a remake of this game, I fervently hope he puts in a soundtrack.

# ¿ Nov 28, 2016 09:04

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

POOL IS CLOSED posted:

There is in fact a spiderweb mega thread! Perhaps some kind soul can link it. My ancient timphone makes that difficult.

Yeah, sure

# ¿ Nov 28, 2016 13:02

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Yes, you can, and it's super cool, but so far as I'm aware you still need to put a ton of work in if you want to add something like that to your game, and Jeff is nothing if not vicious about his cost/benefit analyses and cutting out things that are more effort than they're (financially) worth.

At the moment, that's the kind of feature you add when you care more about your artistic vision than you do about making a living off of your game. Hopefully someday soon that will change, but we're not there yet.

If his goal is to increase accessibility, I would respectfully disagree with your post. Adding music would increase accessibility for a number of people, myself included, that have issues with silent games. I don't need music in a game, but it really helps sell it to me and I know quite a few people who would agree with that sentiment.

So if it comes down to cost/benefit ratio, I believe that a soundtrack would in the long run be financially beneficial. It doesn't have to be the greatest soundtrack ever, it just has to be something.

# ¿ Nov 28, 2016 18:35

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

vdate posted:

Honestly, I found money to be less relevant in this game than the handful of hours I've put into the sequel; barring the canister in Vakkiri, I haven't seen too many places where you can straight buy skill ranks, whereas there's a lot of skill points for sale in the first town in Geneforge 2. Although in fairness I'm not finished either game (though I feel like I might be getting close in Geneforge 1), so maybe I'm just wrong there.

Hmmm.....due to spoilers I'm just going to say that you're only half-right.

Personally, I've managed to use the cash from every merchant in the game.

Honestly, a lot of it comes down to knowing where to look. Either that or blind luck I suppose :downs:

mauman fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Nov 28, 2016

# ¿ Nov 28, 2016 20:16

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

but I am curious: why is it a problem for you that the game has no soundtrack?

Why do we recoil when something feels like slime? Why do our eyes appreciate recognizable graphics? Why do we like things that taste good?

Hearing is one of our primary senses, some people just appreciate it more than you do evidently (and there are a few other posts, in this lp and the megathread that say the exact same thing that I am).

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

And as a second question, what's the issue with just playing your own music?

Ah, the old "why not do it yourself" argument. Where to begin.

May not have music that would fit game, may not like listening to music that stays static when moods shift (combat to non-combat etc), may not want to deal with multiple sources of sound (different programs or pieces of equipment).

Quite frankly, I could go on here. Now, does that answer your question?

Also, I know quite a few people who feel the same way as I do.

mauman fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Nov 29, 2016

# ¿ Nov 29, 2016 10:48

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

MagusofStars posted:

Regarding music, I just think that you need to remember that Spiderweb's entire philosophy is to save money at every turn - so he can be a bottom feeder. He posted a blog several years ago about his budgets - GF4 cost somewhere around $120k total and (back then) had sold something like 4000 copies. The entire model is based around low costs letting him get away with very low sales figures.

In order for his business model to work, he has to be ruthless about cutting costs. Would getting better music make enough money to justify the additional cost, hassle, and so on? If the answer is no, then it's not good business to do so.

You might care enough about music that it matters to you, which is absolutely fine - different strokes and all that. But I suspect you're in the minority here. Especially because Spiderweb's target market is explicitly "people who don't care about our ugly graphics and generic sounds".

That was then, this is now. He also use to charge nearly 30 freaking dollars for each of these games do to how small the market was and how hard it was to get the game itself. Things have radically changed since the late-90's

He has repeatedly mentioned that his current goal is "increase accessibility" considering that he now has (much much) larger markets due to GoG and Steam.

Also he's been slammed in reviews due to sound (and graphics, but that's somewhat understandable) for a long time so I hardly think that I'm in the minority to think it matters. Presentation IS important in this field of work.

I mean, I'm obviously willing to look over these shortcomings since I, you know, play these games. Doesn't change the fact that my points ARE VALID.

mauman fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Nov 29, 2016

# ¿ Nov 29, 2016 13:10

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

PurpleXVI posted:

Well, no, if it's not a big enough issue to keep you from paying for the game... then it's not a big enough issue to matter to Vogel's calculations. So by that exact metric, it's not a valid point.

I can't help but feel you're missing the point.

I guess some people just don't want to look beyond their own noses. There are people who are willing to overlook such things (like me) if the gameplay/writing is strong enough, and there are those who are not. I can't help but feel that this blindingly obvious and I'm disappointed that people are annoyed or confused that there are those who think music would make the game stronger and possibly sell better.

Oh well I suppose.

I think I'm done with this debate, it's my opinion and I will stand by it.

Back to the game itself - Nearing the 3/4 mark I gotta say I've enjoyed my Agent run a lot more than my Shaper run. Just went through a series of areas that reminded me why large parties in this game can really SUCK. Can't wait to see how the LP deals with them.

mauman fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Nov 29, 2016

# ¿ Nov 29, 2016 13:24

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Yes, it does, and thank you for writing the post. I wasn't trying to argue you down, just understand your position. Anyway, onwards!

And I apologize if my words were a little bitter sounding, I had a bad day yesterday and that might have been guiding my hand a bit.

I still feel though that I'm tapped out on the conversation, which is a good thing I think.

Anyways, agreed, onwards!

# ¿ Nov 29, 2016 22:48

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

vdate posted:

One wonders what the Shapers of Sucia were doing when they made them, then! No, but seriously, if that were the reason the Shapers were all 'PULL THE PLUG NOW NOW NOW' you'd think they would have ordered all the canisters destroyed.

edit: Or it could have been the Geneforge I guess. I may have already forgotten what we learned last episode apart from Solution's brief foray into Evil Overlord territory.

I'm just going to say that Shapers (even the reasonable ones) are a proud people.

Anyways, Absorb these creatures are tools, nothing more. If you can provide better than you should do so.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2016 16:42

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

vdate posted:

Even if Maintain gets voted, this game is lethal enough that there are probably going to be more creation casualties before Solution's job is done.

This. People who are voting maintain are just delaying the inevitable, so it doesn't really matter which one wins out*.

*Other than making Solution's life harder I suppose :v:

# ¿ Dec 1, 2016 01:49

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

vdate posted:

That said, POOL IS CLOSED also did say that the choice would be reflected in Solution's attitude and choice of associates, so it's not meaningless, it's more like we're voting for what happens in the LP. Er, that is to say, what happens to the narrative.

True enough I suppose.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2016 02:29

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

Glazius posted:

Can you get poisoned by that canister as many times as you want, or do you sensibly hold back from trying again?

You sensibly back off. Though your character DOES contemplate it before logic kicks in. Addiction is one heluva thing. :okpos:

mauman fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Dec 2, 2016

# ¿ Dec 2, 2016 10:18

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

Syros' trade for abilities is rubbish....unless you're playing an agent.

Getting what he has earlier than normal is a great way to speed up breaking the game in two.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2016 04:44

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

What does Syros take from you? Does he permanently reduce your max essence or something?

skill points.

5 for the gear (not worth it)

5 for the skills (worth it for the agent IMO, not anybody else)

1 for the info (definitely not worth it).

# ¿ Dec 4, 2016 05:00

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

Xander77 posted:

?
What kind of skills that don't get purchased via skill points?

That one I'm afraid of answering. Does that constitute a spoiler Pool?

I mean, explaining the mechanics behind the trade is one thing. I guess it depends if Pool plans on coming back to take the deal at some point (I would guess not, but I don't know).

MagusofStars posted:

It's isn't skills like stats, it's a point in four different spells.

However, with the way the mechanics work in this game, additional levels in an existing spell aren't particularly useful. Spell strength is essentially the sum of (Spell Level + Relevant Magic Skill + Spellcraft). So the choice basically boils down to:
1.) Spend ~5 skill points on raising Spellcraft by 1, making every single spell in the game better by one level.
2.) Spell 5 skill points on learning four individual spells, making only those four spells better by 1 level.

Pretty obvious why this is generally a really dumb idea. The only reason that the Agent can benefit is because this is the earliest possible place to get two very good spells (probably the best two spells in the game honestly). So you're basically trading 5 skill points for early access to better magic. This reason, however, doesn't apply to Shapers (who let their creations do the heavy lifting) or Guardians (who won't have the essence/mana to use either spell effectively for a while anyways).

Also, it's more complicated then "spellcraft vs everything else". Remember, individual skills have (massive) diminishing returns. In the long run, a spell bonus + spellcraft + specific magic type is better than just spellcraft + specific magic type, at least to the specific spells in question.

mauman fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Dec 4, 2016

# ¿ Dec 4, 2016 16:05

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

POOL IS CLOSED posted:

Go ahead and talk about it -- I can add the discussion as a sidebar if I get to archive the lp. We won't be taking Syros' deal, though I will show the missed info in an AU outtake.

We can add dealing with Syros to our unfinished business.

Ok, groovy. Without getting too spoilery, the spells in question are the best battle magic, the "best" blessing magic (which in an agents hands == game broken), a point in heal (never a bad thing), and one point in a battle creation :downs:

.

Of course the creation point is utterly useless, but the rest are either good (like heal) or amazing (like the other two). All of this only applies to the agent of course as the bonuses are much less worthwhile to the other classes.

Once Pool finds the spells in question, I'll edit this so he can add it to a sidebar later (if he wants to).

Also, on a somewhat related note, just finished my Torment Agent run and boy howdy was it MUCH easier than my Torment Shaper run (as in, I didn't finish it because holy gently caress does it get hard/annoying). Being able to literally go "no turns for everyone but you" for most combats just makes the game hilariously easy.

Of course if I ever got cornered I was insta-gibbed but all classes must have weaknesses.

mauman fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Dec 4, 2016

# ¿ Dec 4, 2016 18:25

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

3B makes the game MUCH more interesting and doesn't alienate you from a faction.

It's win win.

Alternatively, Join the Obeyers, then the Awakened, and finally the Takers so you can enjoy ALL of the sweet sweet bonuses. :getin:

I guess that would be 5 now that I think about it.

mauman fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Dec 6, 2016

# ¿ Dec 6, 2016 02:23

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

I don't think it's possible to get an ending in this game that conforms to the canon ending. You can get close though.

POOL IS CLOSED posted:

This is what will happen if the thread votes for pitting all the sects against each other.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2016 02:49

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

PoptartsNinja posted:

Aaand that's why we should've chosen to absorb, that was hard to watch. At least if we'd approached with the best creations possible we might've endured that a bit better.

But nope, better they die in excruciating pain after they've outlived their immediate usefulness

YES. This is why voting for keep made me laugh a bit.

Also, voted :five:

cuz this thread is awesome.

POOL IS CLOSED posted:

The AI is kind of weird and I'm just spitballing, so take this with a grain of salt, but I'm pretty sure the main reason the fyoras attract so little hate is because at this point, they're reaching a no-better-than-chance hitrate, and their damage per successful hit is mediocre. The artilas are still competitive enough w/r/t damage. Obviously there was absolutely nothing ideal about my creations' positioning during that battle, so the poor guys were completely outmatched and ganged up on. The roamer PurpleXVI was one-rounded by one alpha IIRC (again, low HP pool coming into play).

On the other hand, summoning as many 2 int fyoras as you can (but with enough essence left to cast necessary spells) is a good way to distract high threat targets while you take them down if you're an agent (hi Syros :downs:

)

# ¿ Dec 8, 2016 01:11

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

Captain Oblivious posted:

Remember, a lot of us voted Maintain for narrative reasons because POOL told us it would affect narration/choices down the road. Game mechanics were a distant consideration in that context for me I know.

And I'm aware of that, thank you.

I still think a cessation of existence would have been a kinder fate than a cruel and painful death.

mauman fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Dec 8, 2016

# ¿ Dec 8, 2016 05:40

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

Looks good to me :downs:

# ¿ Dec 8, 2016 23:33

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

POOL IS CLOSED posted:

Whatup fellow inventory hoarder? I started this game by hoarding all the "tools" items because I thought I needed them for a turn-in quest. NO. Now there are piles of them around one of the Pentil gatehouses.

Hoarding is a time honored tradition in this game series.

In my recent playthrough, the tutorial area exit is littered with items, tools, and equipment that I just can't get myself to get rid of.

Also, it doesn't really count as Fanfic unless you change the nature of events/characters. What you got fits, so you're just filling the holes.

mauman fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Dec 15, 2016

# ¿ Dec 15, 2016 01:29

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

PurpleXVI posted:

Just echoing here that while I generally don't like LP's that add too much original writing(outside of character dialogue), i.e. "fanfic," I'm really digging yourself. Nothing you've written's felt out of place with the setting or Vogel's own writing. So if you feel you're writing a fanfic, please continue writing a fanfic.

Yeah, this ain't really a fanfic.

You want a LP that turned into a Fanfic? Look at Bobbin Threadbare's QfG 4 LP. THAT was a fanfic.

# ¿ Dec 15, 2016 01:38

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

PurpleXVI posted:

Bobbin Threadbare's QfG LP was also fantastic in all ways.

I would agree with that statement except for QfG 4.

But that would be an opinion and I'm sure some people would disagree. I don't think many would argue that the QfG 4 lp counted as more than your average narrative lp though (changed story, changed characters, changed everything).

But yeah, outside of QfG 4, I agree his QfG lps were pretty good.

mauman fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Dec 15, 2016

# ¿ Dec 15, 2016 02:03

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

Yikes

I didn't say that I didn't like his LPs in general. I just said that I didn't like one of his lps because he did some rather radical (in my opinion) changes to the characters and background of the game, and it would qualify as fan fiction way before yours does (since you don't actually change anything, you just fill the holes).

Back on topic: I have a lot of things that I want to talk about when it comes Trajkov. Sadly I can't yet, but we'll get there someday.

mauman fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Dec 16, 2016

# ¿ Dec 16, 2016 01:37

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

The only thing I'll say about the geneforge is to point out something we already have.

Notice that the geneforge has the word gene in it. This might be obvious really, but that could tell you that despite the trappings, this game in not really a fantasy genre but a sci-fi genre.

If you think about it that way, then anything with the word "gene" and "forge" put together would be a rather scary thing indeed.

# ¿ Dec 18, 2016 07:40

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

Night10194 posted:

It always felt this way, with how much more the Shapers seem like scientists who merely use magic as their medium rather than mystics. Magic seems really 'technologized' here, with predictable results, the ability to do large scale manufacture, etc.

Considering what the "magic" actually is, I find this to be a very fitting post.

I looked back a few pages and found out the "scrolls of life" aka genes had already been mentioned, Shapers have been doing genetic mutation for a while and not actually realizing it. Definitely a sci-fi thing :downs:

I don't know if it had been mentioned yet, but Geneforge was supposed to be straight up sci-fi at some point with ray-guns and everything. But Vogel wasn't sure how well balanced new tech (like guns) would match up with old tech (swords and magic) so he changed the guns to the batons (among other things). Honestly, I think it was a good change. I always liked the concept of living projectile weapons, it's unique and interesting.

mauman fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Dec 18, 2016

# ¿ Dec 18, 2016 20:47

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

Like Clockwork posted:

They also throw fireballs with their minds and create creatures from nothing (since I doubt Solution is carrying around several pounds of life goop). There is clearly magic in the setting, it just has a firm stance on being very science-y in how it handles it. It's more science fantasy than pure scifi.

I'm really glad that we have the batons and living doors and the like instead of typical scifi rayguns and stuff. It makes it stand out in the mire of aesthetically identical sci-fi games, in addition to just being more interesting and better fitting the setting.

Oh I agree. It's an interesting take on fantasy and sci-fi genres which really stuck with me. Most of Vogel's games aren't really my thing (and I've tried them all), but geneforge definitely stuck out for me and kept me interested all the way through the series.

Also, while standard magic is just that in this setting, shaper magic has more of a commonality with something very real and VERY sci-fi when used in a fantastic manner. Of course, there are (huge) liberties taken like it can't be summoned out of nowhere in real life like the shapers can or create giant battle-creatures (or at least not yet, certain sci-fi flicks would disagree), but there are details that make me think that it's an intentional parallel.

And yeah, science fantasy would be a good term for it I suppose. And I definitely agree that the bio-engineering aspect of tools and such is better than bog-standard tech. Makes the setting much more interesting. All things being equal though, once you get through the fantasy-like surface, I would say that this series leans more towards sci-fi.

mauman fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Dec 19, 2016

# ¿ Dec 19, 2016 00:45

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

POOL IS CLOSED posted:

searing orbs

Searing orbs ANYTHING is terrifying when playing a shaper :negative:

# ¿ Dec 19, 2016 04:27

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

PurpleXVI posted:

I'd say the reason Geneforge is more like sci-fi than fantasy is because of its focus on social issues. The central aspect of Geneforge is essentially: "You've got unlimited bio-engineering power, what will it gently caress up and change if you use it? How will it affect society? What is the status of creations? How should they be treated? How will it change the mindsets of their owners?" And so on. That all smacks to me much more of what would be central points in a sci-fi story than what would be central points in a fantasy story.

Never thought of it that way. I like it.

# ¿ Dec 19, 2016 11:42

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

So your underlying thesis is that in sci-fi, the setting drives the story (i.e. the story flows out from the implications of the setting), while in fantasy, the story determines the setting (i.e. the story demands X event happen; that requires a setting that can justify it). Is that accurate?

Partially.

The problem with Science Fantasy is that many people disagree what exactly qualifies. It would be closer to say that in Sci-fi, some sort of (real) science is what's driving the story or at the very least provides the foundation (space exploration, psychology, etc...) while in fantasy it's driven by factors that probably aren't even remotely real (dragons, magic). That's an oversimplification but for our purposes that explanation will work.

Some are rather obvious, like star wars, but others are not quite as obvious. Fallout, Star Trek, and many more are argued to be science fantasy due to the impossibility of the science behind them. In fact most books/games that you might consider science-fiction could be considered science fantasy. This also means that certain books/games/movies that you might not think are science fiction actually are.

This is why it's not used in a general sense, nor will you find a science fantasy section in most libraries. For instance, Pern is considered science fiction in quite a few reading lists, book shops, reviews, etc even though it would definitely qualify as science fantasy :shrug:

It's why I tend to avoid using the term, and I would still describe it as sci-fi with fantasy elements to people to avoid confusion . But yes, this game is definitely science fantasy.

Note - you might hear the term "soft" science fiction and think that refers to looser science (like star trek). The term actually has nothing to do with that. "Soft" science fiction refers to books driven by soft sciences like psychology, while "hard" science fiction refer to hard sciences like math and what not.

mauman fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Dec 19, 2016

# ¿ Dec 19, 2016 21:54

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

To be honest your entire post reeks of the old clash between prescriptivists ("This term has this meaning and nobody uses it correctly!") and descriptivists ("When we look at how people use this term, they are using it with this meaning.").

Especially the hard vs. soft sci-fi thing. I literally have never heard your definition of it before; it's always been a measurement of how plausible the science is.

I took a literature class in college

I wasn't trying to say anything really I was just listing what I know. If you don't believe me about the soft science thing, look it up.

edit: I literally googled "soft science fiction" and my definition was the first thing that popped up. :shrug:

mauman fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Dec 19, 2016

# ¿ Dec 19, 2016 22:12

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

Captain Oblivious posted:

They told us not to cross the streams but we didn't listen

Speaking of which, that's another one that would definitely qualify as science fantasy in more than a few literature* circles :downs:

*yes, I know it's a movie series not a book series.

mauman fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Dec 19, 2016

# ¿ Dec 19, 2016 22:41

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Yeah, and that's super weird to me because like I said, you're the first time I've ever heard anyone use that definition. Wikipedia allows for both definitions, and I can definitely see how the drift happened: initially defined in terms of "hard science" (engineering, math, physics, etc.) and "soft science" (psychology, sociology, etc.), but the former would also tend to have more rigorous / less fuzzy science in the books, so people tended to associate "hard sci fi" with "accurate science" and therefore "soft sci fi" with "inaccurate science". Which amusingly ends up lumping, say, an accurate sociological sci-fi in as "hard sci fi".

Hmmmm, interesting. Never read that Wikipedia article, I was going off what my proff said back in the day.

He said that it was a misnomer to think of it in the terms of looser science, but maybe he just personally disagrees with it being used like that :shrug:

Regardless, the use of the term "science fantasy" is not officially used most of the time due to how many people disagree with what qualifies.

edit: got curious and dug up my old notes - this is paraphrasing what I had written down.

2 definitions to "soft science fiction"

1. Soft science (psychology, sociology, political science) is either the driving force or a really important background device, science is mostly dead-on.

2. Science is just a background device/excuse for the plot (and generally not very accurate) and the human interaction is more important (like star trek).

note - in a roundabout/lateral-thinking sort of way, this is a another way of saying definition 1 as soft sciences generally cover human and social interaction, for the purposes of this class just think of Soft Science fiction as referencing "soft" sciences.

So yes, he was simplifying it a bit for the class for purposes of homework and tests, but I see where he was coming from.

mauman fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Dec 20, 2016

# ¿ Dec 19, 2016 22:50

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 17:22

mauman: Jul 30, 2014; Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.

POOL IS CLOSED posted:

Thanks! I hope to do all the Geneforge games, but I admit I'll be satisfied to finish this first one.

awwww yeah :getin:

# ¿ Dec 21, 2016 03:18

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > The Power and the Glory: An Artila's Story - A Geneforge SSLP

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