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Sorry this could probably fold in to some other threads but I really wanted to ask this because it's bugged me for months and I feel like with the post-election analysis going the way it is, it's worth asking for honest responses. At some point- and I don't remember if this was something that I noticed first on facebook or if it was some Daily Show/Jon Oliver thing- there became a big push against the MAGA slogan with the idea of questioning "Oh, when was America great?" and then going to gotcha moments. Since I felt most people were answering somewhere around the 50s-60s, the gotcha was "OH, so when blacks had no rights?" But I'm sure there were variations on it. But to me, the answer was obviously the 50s-60s, because that's the golden age of labor relations- the government had a vested interest in 100% employment, capital couldn't run out of the country (or town for that matter) whenever things got tough, and labor was at its most equal footing with ownership. And to me, this is like liberalism (or leftism or whatever) 101. Understanding that there was a time pre-Reagan where workers had more power, and that that was a thing people want to get back to, was something you'd know if you even did the most cursory reading in to leftest thinking in college. So hearing and reading ostensibly left people reacting to MAGA like they had no idea what anyone could want from the past really amazed me. Look- I'm sure for a group of voters 'MAGA' was all about setting race/sex/gender/etc rights back to the stone age. But that's been the goal of a segment of the Republican base for years. Decades even. Did people not get that MAGA was resonating with more than just that little group? Honestly?
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Nov 13, 2016 04:42
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| # ? May 13, 2024 15:44 |
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The 80s, when coked up visionaries controlled pop culture aesthetics.
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Nov 13, 2016 04:52
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The 50s and 60s were awesome if you were white but sucked if you were a woman or minority. Why would anyone want to go back to that.
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Nov 13, 2016 05:22
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Vladimir Putin posted:The 50s and 60s were awesome if you were white but sucked if you were a woman or minority. Why would anyone want to go back to that. Because we can have the best of both worlds now? We can have increased workers' power and less wealth inequality and also not hate black people and let them and women vote. I know it's nuts, but it's true. The two issues aren't really related.
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Nov 13, 2016 05:25
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:But to me, the answer was obviously the 50s-60s, because that's the golden age of labor relations- the government had a vested interest in 100% employment, capital couldn't run out of the country (or town for that matter) whenever things got tough, and labor was at its most equal footing with ownership. It's pretty crazy how much trumpers and actual communists/socialists have in common sometimes. But ya know, we just know the jobs aren't going to come back no matter what a businessman or a politician says. (Unless people actually organize and threaten socialist revolution 30s style of course). Deimus has issued a correction as of 05:37 on Nov 13, 2016 |
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Nov 13, 2016 05:27
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Deimus posted:It's pretty crazy how much trumpers and actual communists/socialists have in common sometimes. But ya know, we just know the jobs aren't going to come back no matter what a businessman or a politician says. (Unless people actually organize 30s style of course._ There's a reason Marx said workers of the WORLD unite.
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Nov 13, 2016 05:30
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It has to do with a whole lotta people trying to sound smart by countering a simple slogan with a 'simple' counter slogan that then has to explained and qualified by paragraphs and paragraphs of detail and minutia op. turns out people have limited time these days!
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Nov 13, 2016 05:36
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People not understanding was the entire point. As was often pointed out, MAGA was a dogwhistle. Coupled with his racism, it totally implied rolling back equality for minorities. But it was also a blank canvas for protection. It reminded you of the glory days of the U.S. Economy and worker's power. We all thought it was a dumb rear end slogan with no impact, but turns out it was more effective than the "Stronger Together" or "I'm with her".
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Nov 13, 2016 05:46
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:Sorry this could probably fold in to some other threads but I really wanted to ask this because it's bugged me for months and I feel like with the post-election analysis going the way it is, it's worth asking for honest responses. this is like the difference between denotation and connotation: you could interpret in a way that MAGA means make america strong by having a strong middle class and all the positive stuff you talked about, but trump has no policy proposals that are in line with that really (i mean, for starters the top marginal tax rate was in the 90s during that era and he wants it to be 33%) so obviously it means the while "man it sucks to be anything but white, straight and male"
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Nov 13, 2016 06:16
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Karl Sharks posted:this is like the difference between denotation and connotation: you could interpret in a way that MAGA means make america strong by having a strong middle class and all the positive stuff you talked about, but trump has no policy proposals that are in line with that really (i mean, for starters the top marginal tax rate was in the 90s during that era and he wants it to be 33%) so obviously it means the while "man it sucks to be anything but white, straight and male" Except nobody really had that middle part of the conversation.
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Nov 13, 2016 06:29
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easy now on the p-word thx  🍻
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Nov 13, 2016 06:33
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I don't think Donald Trump ever had some big, smart plan for the election. I think he just liked the attention. He went where people would give him more attention. Turned out enough voters liked the attention, too. I don't see why it has to be more complicated than that.
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Nov 13, 2016 08:16
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Vladimir Putin posted:The 50s and 60s were awesome if you were white but sucked if you were a woman or minority. Why would anyone want to go back to that. Why can't we say we want to bring back the awesome 50s-60s experience, but for everyone this time?
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Nov 13, 2016 08:31
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Because the genie's out of the lamp. We're never going back to the level of protectionism that made that possible. Nor can our job market roll back to the point where a guy who dropped out in 8th grade can get a job for life doing a single process in a factory. Things change too fast for that now, and our level of basic education to take advantage of the changing job market has to be higher.
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Nov 13, 2016 08:47
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ArgumentatumE.C.T. posted:I don't think Donald Trump ever had some big, smart plan for the election. I think he just liked the attention. He went where people would give him more attention. Turned out enough voters liked the attention, too. Assuming everyone who voted for Trump was retarded already lost you the election. I can see you're gearing up to lose the next one nice and early!
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Nov 13, 2016 11:20
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Sun Wu Kampf posted:Assuming everyone who voted for Trump was retarded already lost you the election. I can see you're gearing up to lose the next one nice and early! if cspam has showed us anything in the last few days it's that most democrats don't want to learn from the past year
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Nov 13, 2016 11:25
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Sun Wu Kampf posted:Assuming everyone who voted for Trump was retarded already lost you the election. I can see you're gearing up to lose the next one nice and early! calm your tits, weiner man. Both major parties were down millions of voters. I get to make fun of everyone.
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Nov 13, 2016 11:27
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ArgumentatumE.C.T. why did you have to lose the election like that? Why?
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Nov 13, 2016 11:40
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Oh poo poo and your gonna lose the mext one too? Mand no, somebody stop them
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Nov 13, 2016 11:42
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the simple fact is that Make America Great Again is such a perfect slogan because it appeals to (white) people for a large number of reasons. Yes, it appeals to racists who prefer the good old days when their neighborhood was entirely white, yes it appeals to people who got a well paying secure job right out of high school and see it no longer possible, and yes it appeals to people who saw their town destroyed when the factory moved to China or Mexico. For some racism is integral to MAGA, for others not. To anyone who thinks there is something wrong with America that didn't used to be, it fits.
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Nov 13, 2016 11:45
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Sun Wu Kampf posted:Assuming everyone who voted for Trump was retarded already lost you the election. I can see you're gearing up to lose the next one nice and early! they'll never get it. watch this, they won't believe me: MAGA was Reagan, and anyone over 40 who remembers how Reagan got elected by nabbing pretty much the majority of the Democratic party base. Trump's former Democrat-ness was an asset, not a hindrance. All he cares about is making sure his base (independents, working class Democrats, and Republicans) get what they want, and he'll negotiate wherever necessary to make sure that happens.
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Nov 13, 2016 12:32
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Wyld Thang posted:they'll never get it. watch this, they won't believe me: lol at you thinking he has any loyalty except to himself he's already walking back what his base wants and turning over domestic policy to the FRC he's less reagan and more max bialystock the dog who caught the car
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Nov 13, 2016 12:36
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Dick Milhous Rock! posted:lol at you thinking he has any loyalty except to himself tyvm for proving my point. speaking of loyalty, the democratic party made card check a priority.
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Nov 13, 2016 12:47
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Wyld Thang posted:tyvm for proving my point. sorry, you were preemptively writing trump fanfic good luck with that in the future, look forwards to your pence/christie BDSM fic, I really want to know who tops
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Nov 13, 2016 12:51
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i'd guess christie but really pence does look like he'd go for being railed by a bear
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Nov 13, 2016 12:53
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Dick Milhous Rock! posted:lol at you thinking he has any loyalty except to himself Just because you knew that doesn't mean the general public did. You're getting owned by Wyld Thang.
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Nov 13, 2016 12:54
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Stronger together didn't make any sense as a slogan since Trump wasn't running for independence and pr sure that was the slogan of the losing side in brexit. Also also appeals to strength are fascist courting.
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Nov 13, 2016 12:58
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Just because you knew that doesn't mean the general public did. Wyld Thang thinks Trump is going to negotiate for his base we're all owned here, to various degrees
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Nov 13, 2016 12:58
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People who experience the world through reality television thought Trump was a great businessman, a man of action, somebody with the vision and will to move the country forward into a better future. People who watch tv, and don't read long forgotten hit pieces from the long dead Spy Magazine (which nobody in the MSM researched, either) Big loving surprise that they thought "Make America Great Again" sounded better than "America is Already Great." And before you start to berate these people for being morons who process reality through fiction - look at all the gross Hillarymen who can't stop alluding to Harry Potter and Game of Thrones. The whole country is living in a fantasy land, and the side with the better narrative won.
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Nov 13, 2016 12:58
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nopantsjack posted:Stronger together didn't make any sense as a slogan since Trump wasn't running for independence and pr sure that was the slogan of the losing side in brexit. lol i totally forgot the remain camp used "Stronger In" as their slogan. hahaha
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Nov 13, 2016 13:03
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:lol i totally forgot the remain camp used "Stronger In" as their slogan. hahaha  they were right, but it's been demonstrated that being right is unexciting and kind of boring
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Nov 13, 2016 13:05
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Dick Milhous Rock! posted:
Uh I think you'll find they actually lost the vote????
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Nov 13, 2016 13:10
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nopantsjack posted:Uh I think you'll find they actually lost the vote???? but they won the boring and being right vote, voters just think that's silly they need excitment
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Nov 13, 2016 13:16
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Dick Milhous Rock! posted:
They were so drat right they got it all wrong, because politics are a social game not a fact checking committee.
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Nov 13, 2016 13:19
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fact checking is boring, who's giving out hats
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Nov 13, 2016 13:20
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Dick Milhous Rock! posted:fact checking is boring, who's giving out hats 
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Nov 13, 2016 13:24
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Just because you knew that doesn't mean the general public did. tyvm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD-E-LDc384
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Nov 13, 2016 13:29
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Dick Milhous Rock! posted:Wyld Thang thinks Trump is going to negotiate for his base negotiations pretty much done. that's how politics and the world works. also helps when you listen to and work with people instead of screaming 'you racist shitbirds.'
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Nov 13, 2016 13:53
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Wyld Thang posted:negotiations pretty much done. that's how politics and the world works.  please share more of your fanfic where Trump has negotiated everything his base wants
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Nov 13, 2016 14:09
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just avoid the creepy parts with ivanka because whoa that's not okay
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Nov 13, 2016 14:12
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