Effective Leftism: Practical Organisation and Involvement Thread

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Dr. Arbitrary: Mar 15, 2006; Bleak Gremlin

Crusader posted:

This is Police 3.0, we've gone too far.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 15:41

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 17:52

Star Man: Jun 1, 2008; There's a star maaaaaan
Over the rainbow

I'm from a family of cops and firefighters.

I can never be allowed in.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 23:56

Shame Boy: Mar 2, 2010

Star Man posted:

I'm from a family of cops and firefighters.

I can never be allowed in.

Firefighters are cool, what's wrong with firefighters :colbert:

# ? Aug 30, 2017 23:58

Star Man: Jun 1, 2008; There's a star maaaaaan
Over the rainbow

Nothing.

I dunno. I guess my relatives have desensitized me to the hatred of law enforcement and I'm unwilling to disown my family for their racist views and occupations.

# ? Aug 31, 2017 00:03

coyo7e: Aug 23, 2007; by zen death robot

You don't have to disown anyone, just quit hanging out with them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow-nuHCTA5E

# ? Aug 31, 2017 00:58

Veyrall: Apr 23, 2010; The greatest poet this
side of the cyberpocalypse

Star Man posted:

I guess my relatives have desensitized me to the hatred of law enforcement and I'm unwilling to disown my family for their racist ... occupations.

There's nothing inherently racist about being a cop, it's just that decades of racial insensitivity compounded with a concerted effort by racists and zealots to get their own in has currently tainted an unfortunate amount of police departments.

I can speak from experience that the Biloxi PD is serious about making sure that their officers deeply respect and care for the community, and are zealous about wearing and activating body cams in order to document and curtail possible abuses of power. I know this sounds like #notallcops but if we alienate members of law enforcement this early on, we risk pushing them towards the Regime's philosophies that problems can only be solved by brute force tribalism instead of concerted coordination between the disparate groups.

# ? Aug 31, 2017 01:03

shrike82: Jun 11, 2005

decades?

American police have been a racist institution ever since we've had police

# ? Aug 31, 2017 01:39

Miftan: Mar 31, 2012; Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Veyrall posted:

There's nothing inherently racist about being a cop, it's just that decades of racial insensitivity compounded with a concerted effort by racists and zealots to get their own in has currently tainted an unfortunate amount of police departments.

I can speak from experience that the Biloxi PD is serious about making sure that their officers deeply respect and care for the community, and are zealous about wearing and activating body cams in order to document and curtail possible abuses of power. I know this sounds like #notallcops but if we alienate members of law enforcement this early on, we risk pushing them towards the Regime's philosophies that problems can only be solved by brute force tribalism instead of concerted coordination between the disparate groups.

Cops are the private army of the ruling class and will do anything to uphold the law even if it's wrong. Some may quit, but most probably won't. Those who will quit over this poo poo will be more likely to have already quit over the loving awful things they've been doing so far. This is why ACAB as a group.

# ? Aug 31, 2017 04:34

Mr. Lobe: Feb 23, 2007; ... Dry bones...

shrike82 posted:

decades?

American police have been a racist institution ever since we've had police

Yeah, the origins of the modern police bureaucracy is literally from slave catchers, and there is a whole storied history of racism and labor suppression which primarily characterizes their actions since.

# ? Aug 31, 2017 04:58

Shame Boy: Mar 2, 2010

coyo7e posted:

You don't have to disown anyone, just quit hanging out with them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow-nuHCTA5E

I was feeling nostalgic last week and listened to Flood again and I always forget how loving spot-on that song is, especially "can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

Also I saw them live in concert last year and they were handing out free bernie stickers and you could register to vote there :3:

# ? Aug 31, 2017 13:36

ekuNNN: Nov 27, 2004; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

coyo7e posted:

You don't have to disown anyone, just quit hanging out with them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow-nuHCTA5E

ugh that's a terrible song, this is a much better song with the basically same name:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqH_0LPVoho

# ? Sep 3, 2017 06:07

achillesforever6: Apr 23, 2012; psst you wanna do a communism?

ate all the Oreos posted:

Firefighters are cool, what's wrong with firefighters

They all carry the original sin of having their legacy go back to the days of Crassus, who was in many ways the first capitalist :v:

# ? Sep 5, 2017 03:37

Dr. Arbitrary: Mar 15, 2006; Bleak Gremlin

achillesforever6 posted:

They all carry the original sin of having their legacy go back to the days of Crassus, who was in many ways the first capitalist

Just imagine how effective our fire protection services would be if we went back to those free market models.

# ? Sep 5, 2017 08:04

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Dr. Arbitrary posted:

Just imagine how effective our fire protection services would be if we went back to those free market models.

The way things are heading in the west, you might get to find out!

# ? Sep 5, 2017 18:44

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

As far as I can tell, Roman estate capitalism is pretty much the basis for modern capitalism, we just had to route through a few centuries of feudal bric-a-brac to come back around to plantation capitalism. It's why there were all those rich inbreds named Atticus.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 14:38

Mystic Mongol: Jan 5, 2007; Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.; College Slice

Hey.

So some SuperPAC or something got my cell phone number and sent me an automated text asking if I'd like to show up at a town hall tomorrow and ask about Net Neutrality. I replied, "drat, that sounds reasonable," so i got a stock reply with the address, time, and politician (Brendan Boyle). So I'm off.

Problem is, I have no idea what makes a good town hall question. How long should it be? Does it involve an introduction so everyone knows what I'm talking about? Should it have a hook in it, and if so, what does that even mean? What is even a useful thing to ask, when in my heart of hearts my only stance on the issue is, "loving with the world's most powerful tool is a crime on par with blowing up a dam, I WILL BURY YOU AT SEA AAAAAA" which seems inappropriate because I don't actually know this guy's thoughts on the issue.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 22:25

RiotGearEpsilon: Jun 26, 2005; SHAVE ME FROM MY SHELF

Mystic Mongol posted:

I don't actually know this guy's thoughts on the issue.

start by looking up his thoughts on the issue, dingus, for all you know he's cosponsored a net neutrality bill

# ? Sep 6, 2017 22:27

Mystic Mongol: Jan 5, 2007; Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.; College Slice

RiotGearEpsilon posted:

start by looking up his thoughts on the issue, dingus, for all you know he's cosponsored a net neutrality bill

I've tried and failed! I don't think he's spoken on the matter.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 22:30

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Net Neutrality is Short Blurb. What is your position on it?

Optional: insert between the sentences "The President's FCC chair wants to [let ISPs charge fees for your free porn and/or Facebook]"

# ? Sep 6, 2017 22:35

Mystic Mongol: Jan 5, 2007; Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.; College Slice

GreyjoyBastard posted:

Net Neutrality is Short Blurb. What is your position on it?

The internet has profoundly changed the way Americans learn about the world and communicate with one another. The last few decades have been a renaissance of new ideas as the ubiquity of the World Wide Web allow us incredible access, but a few large Internet Service Providers want to restrict, slow, or prevent access to sections of the internet for profit, to control the national dialogue, or both. The chair of the Federal Communications Commission has abandoned his responsibility in this matter, so I want to know what you plan to do to ensure the Internet remains a tool of citizens, not corporations.

Too long? Is leading the response wrong? Also I want a better word than, "Abandoned," but I can't think of one.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 22:44

RiotGearEpsilon: Jun 26, 2005; SHAVE ME FROM MY SHELF

Mystic Mongol posted:

The internet has profoundly changed the way Americans learn about the world and communicate with one another. The last few decades have been a renaissance of new ideas as the ubiquity of the World Wide Web allow us incredible access, but a few large Internet Service Providers want to restrict, slow, or prevent access to sections of the internet for profit, to control the national dialogue, or both. The chair of the Federal Communications Commission has abandoned his responsibility in this matter, so I want to know what you plan to do to ensure the Internet remains a tool of citizens, not corporations.

Too long? Is leading the response wrong? Also I want a better word than, "Abandoned," but I can't think of one.

Too long. One sentence, or two short sentences.

edit: Also, practice saying it until you can spit it out like a bullet without being at all difficult to understand.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 22:48

Mystic Mongol: Jan 5, 2007; Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.; College Slice

Bluh. OK.

The Internet has improved the lives of Americans in more ways than we could have imagined, but a few large Internet Service Providers want to restrict access to parts of the internet to earn higher profits for inferior service, or to control the national conversation. With the FCC abdicating its responsibility, what will you do to ensure net neutrality survives in the years to come?

# ? Sep 6, 2017 22:56

Internet Explorer: Jun 1, 2005

Sold! I'd vote for you.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 23:01

Dr. Arbitrary: Mar 15, 2006; Bleak Gremlin

Mystic Mongol posted:

Bluh. OK.

The Internet has improved the lives of Americans in more ways than we could have imagined, but a few large Internet Service Providers want to restrict access to parts of the internet to earn higher profits for inferior service, or to control the national conversation. With the FCC abdicating its responsibility, what will you do to ensure net neutrality survives in the years to come?

Very good.
Practice it a bit, and speak with passion, you'll do fine!

# ? Sep 6, 2017 23:26

RiotGearEpsilon: Jun 26, 2005; SHAVE ME FROM MY SHELF

Much better. I read that one by accident, which is how I know it's short enough.

# ? Sep 7, 2017 07:17

fermun: Nov 4, 2009

Mystic Mongol posted:

The Internet has improved the lives of Americans in more ways than we could have imagined, but a few large Internet Service Providers want to restrict access to parts of the internet to earn higher profits for inferior service, or to control the national conversation. With the FCC abdicating its responsibility, what will you do to ensure net neutrality survives in the years to come?

This is a very good and effective short question for a townhall.

# ? Sep 7, 2017 07:42

MikeCrotch: Nov 5, 2011; I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese

Does the US have anything like the Peelian Principles with regards to the formation of law enforcement organisation? I know that there is a whole lot going on that has led to US police executing people in the street and getting away with it, but i'm still curious because the Peelian Principles actually seem like a pretty good set of ground rules for law enforcement compared to forming police organisations from slave catchers (assuming of course that LEOs follow them, which is a whole other story):

Robert Peel posted:

The nine principles were as follows:

1. To prevent crime and disorder, as an alternative to their repression by military force and severity of legal punishment.
2. To recognise always that the power of the police to fulfil their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behaviour, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect.
3. To recognise always that to secure and maintain the respect and approval of the public means also the securing of the willing co-operation of the public in the task of securing observance of laws.
4. To recognise always that the extent to which the co-operation of the public can be secured diminishes proportionately the necessity of the use of physical force and compulsion for achieving police objectives.
5. To seek and preserve public favour, not by pandering to public opinion, but by constantly demonstrating absolutely impartial service to law, in complete independence of policy, and without regard to the justice or injustice of the substance of individual laws, by ready offering of individual service and friendship to all members of the public without regard to their wealth or social standing, by ready exercise of courtesy and friendly good humour, and by ready offering of individual sacrifice in protecting and preserving life.
6/ To use physical force only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient to obtain public co-operation to an extent necessary to secure observance of law or to restore order, and to use only the minimum degree of physical force which is necessary on any particular occasion for achieving a police objective.
7. To maintain at all times a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and that the public are the police, the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.
8. To recognise always the need for strict adherence to police-executive functions, and to refrain from even seeming to usurp the powers of the judiciary, of avenging individuals or the State, and of authoritatively judging guilt and punishing the guilty.
9. To recognise always that the test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, and not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with them.

# ? Sep 7, 2017 15:16

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

I've taken some police history, and FWIW Peels approach to policing( policing by consent) is considered rather unique in the world.

# ? Sep 7, 2017 15:24

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

It also isn't necessarily upheld by the metropolitan police of today..

But yes for a Tory, Peel set out some remarkably good policing rules that in theory still form some of the basis of British policing but in practice have rather faded. But it's probably where you get the stereotype of the village bobby in old british dramas from.

Also worth noting that part of the reason the metropolitan police was formed was because previously the government's response to organized protest was to send the army in to run people down with horses and stab them.

This was judged, eventually, to be unsustainable in the long term (though not really in the short term) and thus the creation of a proper police force was considered necessary.

# ? Sep 7, 2017 19:59

DR FRASIER KRANG: Feb 4, 2005; "Are you forgetting that just this afternoon I was punched in the face by a turtle now dead?

How worth it is it for me to learn any amount of Roberts Rules of Order? My union uses it but do other orgs use it too?

I'm ignorant as hell about organized movements

# ? Sep 16, 2017 01:49

Dr. Arbitrary: Mar 15, 2006; Bleak Gremlin

I think it's useful to know the basics.

If you're interested in learning how to run a meeting, maybe try out Toastmasters.

The big things that are useful with parliamentary process is that they offer useful techniques for keeping a meeting on the rails.

Suppose a club wants to buy shirts.
They have a design, and they're ready to buy.

Someone proposes that the wording be changed, someone else wants a different color. You've been here, this is gonna be rough.

Parliamentary process time:
"I motion that the current design be approved without changes"

If anyone at all in the body agrees, they should say "I second." (If everyone else wants a change, they should all stay silent unless they have a good reason.)

The motion is put to a vote.

If the majority doesn't want a change, you've just skipped the debate.

If it fails, then you can make a motion to limit debate to two minutes per speaker, with two speakers for and two speakers against maximum. (This requires a second, you can't interrupt, and needs a 2/3 vote).

If the changes proposed are complex, you can motion for the division of the question (which is different than division of the assembly.)

So if someone proposes that we change the color to blue, move the text to the front and change the material to polyester, you can have it split into three separate votes.

If debate goes on too long, you can motion for the division of the assembly, which means you're demanding a vote now.

It's all useful, but please use your powers for good, to keep meetings moving, not to monkey wrench.

# ? Sep 16, 2017 02:12

DR FRASIER KRANG: Feb 4, 2005; "Are you forgetting that just this afternoon I was punched in the face by a turtle now dead?

Ok. The union offers a basics course and then an advanced course as well. I'm not sure if I want to put the effort into being a council rep but if it's helpful know it for other applications I will give it a shot.

# ? Sep 16, 2017 03:09

Bel Shazar: Sep 14, 2012

HEY NONG MAN posted:

Ok. The union offers a basics course and then an advanced course as well. I'm not sure if I want to put the effort into being a council rep but if it's helpful know it for other applications I will give it a shot.

Oh yeah, definitely helpful. Heck, we use Roberts Rules when we hold Boy Scout Troop committee meetings.

# ? Sep 16, 2017 03:27

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

PTA meetings also use it.

# ? Sep 16, 2017 16:38

Kekekela: Oct 28, 2004

Good news, we've actually got some local candidates to get behind her in Red County, FL.
I ~~was coerced~~volunteered to go door to door collecting signatures but I'm a little apprehensive, my de-escalation fu is probably not up to a serious FloGrown confrontation but supposedly we only go to registered Dems.

# ? Sep 22, 2017 13:18

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Mystic Mongol posted:

Bluh. OK.

The Internet has improved the lives of Americans in more ways than we could have imagined, but a few large Internet Service Providers want to restrict access to parts of the internet to earn higher profits for inferior service, or to control the national conversation. With the FCC abdicating its responsibility, what will you do to ensure net neutrality survives in the years to come?

Much better.

# ? Sep 22, 2017 13:53

Shame Boy: Mar 2, 2010

Kekekela posted:

Good news, we've actually got some local candidates to get behind her in Red County, FL.
I ~~was coerced~~volunteered to go door to door collecting signatures but I'm a little apprehensive, my de-escalation fu is probably not up to a serious FloGrown confrontation but supposedly we only go to registered Dems.

Wait did I miss who you're talking about? Who's "her"?

# ? Sep 22, 2017 14:04

Quorum: Sep 24, 2014; REMIND ME AGAIN HOW THE LITTLE HORSE-SHAPED ONES MOVE?

ate all the Oreos posted:

Wait did I miss who you're talking about? Who's "her"?

"Here in central Florida" I assume

# ? Sep 22, 2017 15:19

Shame Boy: Mar 2, 2010

Quorum posted:

"Here in central Florida" I assume

Oh duh, that makes more sense :v:

# ? Sep 22, 2017 15:56

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 17:52

Shame Boy: Mar 2, 2010

Happy new year thread! How do we make sure the primaries and midterms go well? What should I start doing right now to help, and what should I look out for as the date approaches?

# ? Jan 18, 2018 15:28

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