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I think a good start, for everyone interested in the Democratic Party, is to start looking into becoming a precinct committeeperson or whatever your state's equivalent is. Over the last two years, I've seen a bunch of people getting surprised when their cool progressive primary challenger can't get VAN access because the state party is still full of centrists. Getting in at the bottom can help with that, and it's not an enormous amount of effort.
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Jan 18, 2018 15:33
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Tias posted:Statistically speaking, civilian gun owners never really stop spree shooters. I think working on your own health, forming stable networks and helping other people in need is much better advice than getting a gun. i wont go into details but there's been a few occasions where myself and other activists i know have had serious issues with real nazis placing death threats against us until they found out we owned firearms. the right wing has an image of leftists as spineless cowards and visibly owning and using firearms can actually have an effect of scaring off some of them since it shows you're not loving around edit: are there any other wobblies in this thread btw? iww has been a really helpful resource for me to meet up with other leftists in my area
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Jan 18, 2018 18:11
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Kanine posted:edit: are there any other wobblies in this thread btw? iww has been a really helpful resource for me to meet up with other leftists in my area What's IWW? Wobblies is a silly nickname. 
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Jan 19, 2018 02:14
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Industrial Workers of the World.
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Jan 19, 2018 02:17
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*posts link to lmgtfy iww* Industrial Workers of the World
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Jan 19, 2018 02:19
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Plastic Pal posted:What's IWW? haha yeah that's the nickname for members of the industrial workers of the world, it's an international labor union organizing group that was really big back in the first part of the 20th century but isnt nearly as influential right now. it's been picking up some steam in the last 5 years and seems like it's slowly becoming something like a dsa for anarchists in terms of the actual role it fills inside the far left in america (nobody's actually quite sure of the origin of the nickname also)
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Jan 19, 2018 02:40
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oh speaking of wobblies, 129 more of the j20 protestors (people who were who were arrested for organizing and attending the inauguration protests last january who faced many bullshit charges from the trump admin) have had their charges dropped. there are still 59 however and of that number roughly half are iww members.
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Jan 19, 2018 03:20
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Kanine posted:
I joined like a month ago
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Jan 19, 2018 03:23
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Kanine posted:the right wing has an image of leftists as spineless cowards and visibly owning and using firearms can actually have an effect of scaring off some of them since it shows you're not loving around oh i thought u libtards said guns were bad?  EDIT: shitposting aside, what would be an effective method of courting racial minorities over to actual Leftist policies? The image of Socialists that most BornAPoorBlkChild fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Jan 19, 2018 |
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Jan 19, 2018 04:08
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Race Realists posted:oh i thought u libtards said guns were bad? they also cant distinguish between liberals and leftists which is the source of this confusion for them
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Jan 19, 2018 04:12
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Kanine posted:they also cant distinguish between liberals and leftists which is the source of this confusion for them we're all  EVIL MARKSIS to them and have been ever since 9/11
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Jan 19, 2018 04:14
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So it’s coming up on intern season at work and once a week we get a handful of engineering interns who are by default funneled into a union membership orientation that I help facilitate. What’s the best way to educate these younger folks about what a union is and how it benefits them? I’m finding it super difficult to make them care about labor organization and a lot of it stems from the fact that they’re only here for 4-6 months and then they go back to school.
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Apr 6, 2018 18:14
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HEY NONG MAN posted:So it’s coming up on intern season at work and once a week we get a handful of engineering interns who are by default funneled into a union membership orientation that I help facilitate. 
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Apr 6, 2018 18:16
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My go-to so far has been to point out that while other engineering jobs may pay more, the quality of life (re: hours and overtime) is far superior under a union contract.
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Apr 6, 2018 18:17
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HEY NONG MAN posted:So it’s coming up on intern season at work and once a week we get a handful of engineering interns who are by default funneled into a union membership orientation that I help facilitate. You need to do a quick history of unions (why the hell have these at all anyway where did this come from) point out how with declining union power comes poo poo being hosed up and bullshit (stagnating wages, increases in on the job accidents due to weakened/unenforced regulation (Coal mines are a wonderful very recent example of this) and how hours worked are going up without compensation. Make sure you point out the bullshit salaried employee expected to do unlimited overtime for no extra comp cuz that hits them where they live generally (any math you might be able to do to show what they'd be getting if they were legally obligated to be paid time and a half OT would be helpful here too). Also inoculating them against anti-union propaganda by showing them the bullshit corps like Walmart put out so they know what to look for with a point by point rebuttal would also be helpful.
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Apr 6, 2018 18:26
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Plastic Pal posted:What's IWW? https://twitter.com/RealTankieHours/status/981856292464558080
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Apr 6, 2018 18:31
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HEY NONG MAN posted:My go-to so far has been to point out that while other engineering jobs may pay more, the quality of life (re: hours and overtime) is far superior under a union contract. Do you live in the US? Because the whole "not being able to be instantly fired for any (or no) reason" thing really appeals to me, someone who works in a basically union-free profession in the wonderful labor-hostile state of Florida at an ~at-will~ employer. Even if you're sure you'll follow all the rules, what if your boss (or your boss's boss, or anyone up the chain) is a jerk and just decides one day they don't like your face? You really want to leave your career and life up to chance? And definitely emphasize the quality of life thing like you're doing, you don't really realize just how valuable being able to do poo poo other than work 60 hour weeks is until you've lost that option. Sure, you might make 10% more or something at another job, but (assuming they're salaried) at the expense of putting in 20 extra (unpaid!) hours each week. Maybe work this in somehow  https://local.theonion.com/all-of-area-mans-hard-work-finally-pays-off-for-employe-1819573184I'm sure you're already doing this, but a lot of people don't really "get" that the union is there to basically get your back any time anything happens, from big to minor. A lot of people I know think the union is just there to take more money from your paycheck and do nothing but negotiate contracts or other "invisible" things. I'd definitely emphasize the parts other than that - try to make it crystal clear that if they ever have a problem at work, big or small, they can come right to their rep and get help, almost like having an on-call company lawyer dedicated to making sure you're treated fair and advocating for you all the time. The company has entire teams of people doing this for them, do you really want to go up against that alone in order to save a few bucks in union dues? Shame Boy fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Apr 6, 2018 |
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Apr 6, 2018 18:44
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ate all the Oreos posted:Maybe work this in somehow I like what they did with the url: "all-of-area-mans-hard-work-finally-pays-off-for-employe-"
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Apr 6, 2018 18:48
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One anecdote I trot out regarding the union being there to help you is that one time I had an accident using a company vehicle and they wanted me to take a drug test the next day but the union informed me that if it had been 8 hours or more, they aren’t allowed to do poo poo.
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Apr 6, 2018 18:50
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HEY NONG MAN posted:One anecdote I trot out regarding the union being there to help you is that one time I had an accident using a company vehicle and they wanted me to take a drug test the next day but the union informed me that if it had been 8 hours or more, they aren’t allowed to do poo poo.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:15
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Your HR department works for your boss. It's really that simple. My dad could get a union rep to attend any meeting he had with his supervisor, which is really good if you have a boss who distorts what you say (intentionally or not) or makes empty promises.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:18
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HEY NONG MAN posted:One anecdote I trot out regarding the union being there to help you is that one time I had an accident using a company vehicle and they wanted me to take a drug test the next day but the union informed me that if it had been 8 hours or more, they aren’t allowed to do poo poo. Yeah that's a real good one lol I know I've already basically said this but I want to emphasize it: it blows my mind how many people my age don't really get what a union does for them. I've talked to lots of peeps, both irl and on this forum, who complained about unions doing nothing but taking money out of their paycheck. Most of them were left-leaning, too, and just thought that they had a "bad" union or that modern unions were something completely different from the old ones. Pretty much all of them never bothered to go to the union rep with any issues, or get involved in anything the union was doing, or hell even bothered to vote most of the time - It was basically just "another tax" as far as they were concerned, doing weird nebulous things at a large scale that they never see any direct result from. I think just getting it into people's heads that the union operates all the way down to an individual level for them personally, and not just as some large organization pushing general policy, would go a long way towards selling them on the idea.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:27
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Your HR department works for your boss. It's really that simple. Yeah I think that's a real good angle - nearly everyone can relate to having a crappy boss / supervisor / manager / whatever at one point in their lives. Well guess what, now you have someone on your side, working for you and not your rear end in a top hat boss, backed up by an entire huge organization with wide-reaching influence.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:38
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I actually explained this (drew circles in the air with my hands) but instead of taxes it was dues. I think it worked super well.
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Apr 6, 2018 20:10
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ate all the Oreos posted:Yeah that's a real good one lol I had a union represented employee tell me this morning that she thought unions literally only still exist in Washington state and everywhere else they’re banned.
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Apr 6, 2018 20:11
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ate all the Oreos posted:Yeah that's a real good one lol My dad is a Boomer and teacher and constantly bitched that his union did jack poo poo for his 120 bucks per year while he enjoyed tenure and a bunch of other poo poo I could only dream about. Anecdotally, it's not just young people.
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Apr 6, 2018 21:12
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I got a layoff notice six months after I got hired into the company and was pretty sour on the union over that from the get go but now I realize that a non union person just gets told “bye whore” without the 90 days to find another role. Now I’m both feet into union activities and am trying to actually contribute.
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Apr 6, 2018 21:16
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Also: another great talking point for new members is explaining that our monthly dues are 85% of the avg hourly rate across the whole unit. Our dues are ~$47 
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Apr 6, 2018 21:18
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A big problem with people's perception of unions is that they believe life is already fair, that the system pays people what they deserve, the whole american just-world fallacy. They basically so utterly take for granted the labour rights people literally had to die for that they can't imagine things any other way. It's like when people say we should stop vaccinations because no one gets sick from those illnesses anymore like they used to back in the day. They don't get that labour rights are an ongoing thing that have to be fought for a defended every single day because they are under constant attack.
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Apr 6, 2018 21:49
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HEY NONG MAN posted:I got a layoff notice six months after I got hired into the company and was pretty sour on the union over that from the get go but now I realize that a non union person just gets told “bye whore” without the 90 days to find another role. When my company did layoffs they didn't tell anyone in advance, waited for everyone to come to work on the day they were going to do it, called them all in a meeting an hour after they arrived to tell them they're fired, and while they were in the meeting went to their desk and confiscated their laptops and all the company property just in case they tried to steal it. We were then told which half of our team members were gone sporadically, by word of mouth, and I thought this one guy still worked there for a full 3 days afterwards and kept sending him emails 
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Apr 6, 2018 21:50
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Baronjutter posted:A big problem with people's perception of unions is that they believe life is already fair, that the system pays people what they deserve, the whole american just-world fallacy. They basically so utterly take for granted the labour rights people literally had to die for that they can't imagine things any other way. Yeah, that's why I think the "lovely boss" angle is pretty good - even if you're sure you're a good person who will prove how great you are through hard work and merit or w/e, you still probably have had an experience with a lovely boss that can demonstrate how even you can use the help of a union. e: Basically put it in as personal terms as you can, since people simultaneously have this idea that the world is just overall yet can point to several specific cases in their own lives where they've been treated unfairly. It stops being this large thing that doesn't matter because "the world is just", and becomes a personal thing that's part of the mechanisms that make the world just for you, if that makes sense. Shame Boy fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Apr 6, 2018 |
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Apr 6, 2018 21:53
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The other hard part is that we don’t want to give the impression to brand new folks that the company is out to gently caress them (even though it’s true) because that tends to turn people off. Typically during these orientations I start going off about how the company isn’t your friend and all that then the old timer I work with jumps in like “HA HA ALRIGHT BUT SERIOUSLY IT WILL BE OK”
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Apr 6, 2018 22:06
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ate all the Oreos posted:When my company did layoffs they didn't tell anyone in advance, waited for everyone to come to work on the day they were going to do it, called them all in a meeting an hour after they arrived to tell them they're fired, and while they were in the meeting went to their desk and confiscated their laptops and all the company property just in case they tried to steal it. This exact thing happened at my workplace recently right down to not telling anyone who got laid off, along with cutting my hours down to 27/week from 35 not two weeks after promising me a bump to 40, and it was the thing that prompted me to reach out to a few organizations to see about introducing the idea of unionizing to my workplace. I work for an NPO though so I'm not sure how differently it works and I know the second the idea gets momentum I will almost certainly be fired, which is kind of scary.
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Apr 6, 2018 22:18
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ate all the Oreos posted:Yeah, that's why I think the "lovely boss" angle is pretty good - even if you're sure you're a good person who will prove how great you are through hard work and merit or w/e, you still probably have had an experience with a lovely boss that can demonstrate how even you can use the help of a union. A lot of modern bosses are really good at doing horribly lovely things while making workers doubt them selves. They basically take notes from abusers and use very similar tactics to always leave the worker feeling like maybe it was their fault, maybe they just needed to perform better, maybe that unpaid overtime is needed to make up for their past poor performance, maybe they really didn't deserve those extra promised hours and so on.
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Apr 6, 2018 22:19
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HEY NONG MAN posted:The other hard part is that we don’t want to give the impression to brand new folks that the company is out to gently caress them (even though it’s true) because that tends to turn people off. Just put it in terms they can understand: its just business. "What is the company for? What is it purpose?" Wait for them to answer obvious poo poo like 'make widgets' or whatever the hell company produces. "No. This company exists to make money. The more money they make, the happier they are. So anything that costs them money they are going to not like and seek to reduce that cost. Only makes sense, right?" "Because they exist to first and foremost make money, you are a number on a balance sheet. Its nothing personal. And the instant you start costing them more than they want to pay they're going to look for ways to reduce that cost. Which is why you need a union. Because you can do absolutely everything right and still get dicked over because they want to save money so they make more money. And the union doesn't think you're a number on a balance sheet. They don't think anyone should be treated like that. That's why we exist; to make sure you are treated like you deserve. To make sure you get a fair shake. And since there's strength in numbers we band together to make sure we have the power to get you that fair shake. For them, its business. For us, its personal." Make sure you also stress that if they DO gently caress up it doesn't mean you can save their job, it just means you can make the company cough up proof that you hosed up instead of just them going 'because we said so.' One of the other myths people commonly believe about unions is that they make it impossible for people to get fired and it makes everyone in said union look bad when one schmuck who sucks at his job stays around forever because its too hard to fire him. If by 'too hard' you mean management actually has to do their loving job and document instances of incompetence and gather evidence to back up their claims and give you warnings, then sure, its hard. A good manager keeps track of performance so they can weed out bad apples. A bad one blames the union because they don't want to do the paperwork.
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Apr 6, 2018 22:27
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Oracle posted:Just put it in terms they can understand: its just business. 
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Apr 6, 2018 22:33
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For every time you hear about a manager who is frustrated by being unable to fire their incompetent subordinates, ask yourself, how many incompetent managers have you seen? What if the real problem is that with a Union, an incompetent manager can't fire their competitent subordinates.
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Apr 6, 2018 23:08
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:For every time you hear about a manager who is frustrated by being unable to fire their incompetent subordinates, ask yourself, how many incompetent managers have you seen? What if the real problem is that with a Union, an incompetent manager can't fire their competitent subordinates. Or alternately, keeping incompetent subordinates around while blaming the union makes the union look bad AND you can do so without having to actually do any work! Win/win!
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Apr 6, 2018 23:51
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"Unions let incompetent workers stay employed" well buddy I got some news for you - every single business has a protected class of workers that get to be incompetent and keep their jobs. It's called "friends and family of management".
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Apr 7, 2018 00:20
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:"Unions let incompetent workers stay employed" well buddy I got some news for you - every single business has a protected class of workers that get to be incompetent and keep their jobs. It's called "friends and family of management". also cops even in places that aren't law enforcement fuckers do that brotherhood poo poo everywhere like some porcine sacred band of thebes
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Apr 7, 2018 00:27
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