|
One of the big problems with progressive or left organizing is that its such a broad category. Before this election I had mainly focused my efforts in Socialist Alternative because they were the most active in my area, but now I'm going to try to be involved in as many left groups as I can because its stupid how fractious the community is. I think my main goal will be trying to get these various groups to just. loving. work. together. because thats been a huge problem in the past. Anyways I've found that even just keeping on eye on anarchist and antifa groups is helpful because despite their portrayal as simply teenagers breaking stuff in the media they actually really care a lot and tend to pay close attention to what is going on locally. I'm also of the opinion that even when they're causing property damage its at least getting some protests in the news that might not get a mention which is super important because the media's most effective tactic against movements is simply ignoring them, see the past few months of BLM for a good example.
|
#
¿
Nov 15, 2016 02:59
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 16, 2024 22:42 |
|
|
Doorknob Slobber posted:One of the big problems with progressive or left organizing is that its such a broad category. ... but now I'm going to try to be involved in as many left groups as I can because its stupid how fractious the community is. I think my main goal will be trying to get these various groups to just. loving. work. together. Quoting myself, but never has this been more relevant in the thread and in politics in general. Take your left politics as far as you're willing or comfortable, let others take theirs as far as they are willing.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 15, 2016 18:48
|
|
|
What would the punishment be for helping and housing a refugee coming to the USA illegally? Is there any kind of underground railroad poo poo going on?
|
|
#
¿
Nov 15, 2016 19:25
|
|
|
Stockholm Syndrome posted:You know, that Trump isn't advocating for anything the Ku Klux Klan is representing right? It just happens to be that the Ku Klux Klan might also oppose (illegal) immigration which Trump is also opposing. Trump probably hates them just as much as you or me. Trump isn't a fascist. Except for that time when he was asked to denounce his endorsement from the KKK and he wouldn't. Also Trump hasn't just been endorsed by the KKK, nearly every white nationalist group domestically and around the world has either endorsed or celebrated Trump's victory. Doorknob Slobber fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Nov 15, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Nov 15, 2016 19:31
|
|
|
On the subject of good books on organizing things, has anyone read Bill Ayers book Demand the Impossible: A Radical Manifesto?
|
|
#
¿
Nov 16, 2016 17:56
|
|
|
Geostomp posted:The fact that we've reached the point where this kind of poo poo gets no attention should be horrifying to anyone with even the slightest grasp of history. Its getting a reasonable amount of attention among left and progressive peeps in WA. Its been in the local news and our state democratic party sent out an email asking for money to 'fight' it or whatever. Democrats useless. There's talk of occupying the capitol building when the bill is heard or whatever. The media in general doesn't report on this stuff, I think because it goes against the narrative that "everything will be ok". Doorknob Slobber fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Nov 19, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Nov 19, 2016 06:35
|
|
|
corporations are good?
|
|
#
¿
Nov 20, 2016 18:12
|
|
|
Did anyone else join up with Our Revolution? I went to a meeting last night and it was very informative about a ton of stuff in my area and also what they're planning on focusing on.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 25, 2017 19:56
|
|
|
TwoQuestions posted:Before buying Rules for Radicals, I decided to read reviews just in case, and holy poo poo people loving HATE Alinsky. I don't think its outdated. Alisnky's personal feelings on certain things might be outdated, but the book is broad enough in providing ideas that it still provides lots of useful information. To go into it more I think that the book itself is a tool box, it contains all sorts of helpful information on organizing resistance. Is a hammer ever outdated?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 26, 2017 21:10
|
|
|
Is anyone here organizing with any of these Indivisible groups that have sprung up? I'm wondering if like my local group they're all not planning on running or supporting alternative candidates if their reps don't listen?
|
|
#
¿
Feb 6, 2017 18:46
|
|
|
ate all the Oreos posted:Seems like the name "indivisible" would imply they wouldn't want to run alternative candidates but who knows but their whole spiel is that they're emulating the tea party and running or supporting candidates seemed like a big part of the tea party
|
|
#
¿
Feb 6, 2017 23:26
|
|
|
Baby Babbeh posted:I mean the problem with indivisible is it was put together by congressional staffers, who have a vested interest in not upsetting the apple cart. I didn't know that and interestingly enough from listening to what people were saying about it I was starting to get the notion that it was written by democrats with no real intention of providing advice for actually getting anything done. Go figure.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 7, 2017 01:49
|
|
|
joepinetree posted:Marketplace, which is technically APM but is broadcast on NPR, went completely out of its way to bash minimum wage increases at any chance they got. This is what made me stop listening to NPR. Marketplace.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 7, 2017 23:13
|
|
|
Keeshhound posted:It feels like a young earth creationist trying to explain away any evidence that they disagree with by saying "well, god made it that way." Nonviolent resistance achieved political gains? "No, it was really the violent groups that made it possible, you just didn't see them because the media always focuses on the nonviolent movements." What evidence is there that non-violent parades accomplish policy change? enki42 posted:It's easier for a state to repress violence, because almost without exception, they have more resources to conduct violence against the movement than the movement has to use against the state. The actions of the police in the US say otherwise. Police will often use violence broadly even if only one or two members of a protest do something even remotely 'violent'. Doorknob Slobber fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Feb 9, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Feb 9, 2017 18:10
|
|
|
enki42 posted:That's a strawman, the argument isn't between "parades" and violent protest, it's between non-violent resistance (which includes direct action and civil disobedience) and violent resistance. a graph that says things with no reference
|
|
#
¿
Feb 9, 2017 18:24
|
|
|
Evidence violence works. I'm willing to settle on that there has never, ever been a completely non-violent struggle so any claims that it works or doesn't work are stupid
|
|
#
¿
Feb 9, 2017 18:28
|
|
|
enki42 posted:I posted the article that the graph is based on immediately above the graph, the book written by the article of the author on the same subject, and a scholarly article with the methodology behind the study. I don't think I'm the one arguing in bad faith here. Look you're the one making the claim that non violence is the one true way, but I'm not reading a whole book, an article behind a paywall or a login or a scholarly article. That graph makes a claim, pick out specifically which struggles were peaceful and then we can start talking about whether or not it works. I personally don't even buy the notion that there has ever been a peaceful resistance to anything. Even in the most mainstream of white washed struggles there are always fringe elements blowing poo poo up.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 9, 2017 18:31
|
|
|
enki42 posted:The first article I linked isn't beyond a paywall, and includes many examples (but not every single one) After reading the article the biggest problem with it is that it isn't making an argument for non-violent struggle so much as against violent struggle. It claims that: quote:In South Africa, boycotts against white businesses and international divestments from South African businesses were decisive in ending the apartheid regime. But its easy to also forget that the struggle in South Africa was extremely loving violent. Nelson Mandela, one of the key figures of the struggle in South Africa was responsible for hundreds of violent attacks and he never, ever apologized or renounced violence. It even brings up one of the biggest non-violent struggles in recent memory, the arab spring and I think we can safely say that it accomplished very little, and what has risen out of the ashes of that is an extremely violent struggle. Just look at Rojava in Syria. There is not a single successful non-violent struggle referenced in the entire article, unless I missed it.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 9, 2017 18:45
|
|
|
I think to me it boils down to two key points, there has never been non-violent struggle and violence and non-violence are tools to be used and the decision to use them rests on those in the streets making those decisions. I wrote this long thing in response to an article in the atlantic because I was so tired of this conversation on the left, its long but I'll share it here because it feels pretty relevent.quote:I'm seeing a lot of opinion pieces in news outlets about how the left should protest and organize. Most of these articles misunderstand what protest should be and also seem to come from a place of privilege. Especially when I see articles that say things like "You want to scare Trump? Be orderly, polite, and visibly patriotic."(The Atlantic) Privilege that is obvious when police show up to Black Lives Matter and labor marches and anti-trump marches in riot gear with batons and rubber bullets, but show up to the women's march to shake hands. This cowed orderly, polite patriotism is exactly what the 'establishment' would like. Doorknob Slobber fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Feb 9, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Feb 9, 2017 18:51
|
|
|
ate all the Oreos posted:With nonviolent protests you can get pictures like this that will spread through the media and make a lot more people aware of what you're doing and how bullshit the other side is: and look how successful occupy wall street was. Doorknob Slobber fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Feb 9, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Feb 9, 2017 19:37
|
|
|
ate all the Oreos posted:They rerouted it on Dec. 5th in response to protests so... not... bad? Like I know it's all gone to poo poo since then but it's not like they had no effect. I think that (so far at least) DAPL is a good example of why peaceful protest by itself doesn't really work (especially) if there isn't a sympathetic power willing to step in and intervene. There was that quote thats floating around that peaceful protest doesn't do anything if the people you're protesting against don't give a poo poo about you that applies pretty well in this case. One of the the arguments for peaceful only protest that I've seen so far here is that it you can garner sympathy and draw people to support your cause. But if the media is mostly silent when the police/security use attack dogs and put people in cardiac arrest by spraying you with water in freezing temperatures and throw concussion grenades or whatever it turned out they were using and blow off peoples' arms then its going to be very hard to draw people to your cause because no one knows that these things are happening. Especially in a world where facts no longer matter, and the state just says "No we didn't do that!" even though there is video evidence of it and people (including the media) just accept that answer without really digging deeper into whats going on. Doorknob Slobber fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Feb 9, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Feb 9, 2017 20:30
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:So, has this article been posted here, yet? This is a bit long, but its a great read. If you read this and you don't want to bash some heads in, you might not be a human being.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 10, 2017 17:10
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:We had a rather enormous Planned Parenthood rally in my Republican town this morning. Sadly my kids had hockey but our local NPR affiliate came through with pictures. Here's my personal favorite. thats awesome. Where I live there were about six anti-pp protesters and about 200 pro-pp protesters some of the signs were pretty good 
Doorknob Slobber fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Feb 12, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Feb 12, 2017 01:27
|
|
|
or find out where he lives and get enough people to make noise outside his house
|
|
#
¿
Feb 19, 2017 18:11
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:They haven't even done anything yet, and it's Perez and Ellison working together. 'working together' like the party 'worked together' on the 'most progressive platform ever' loving lol. Purge perez, purge Pelosi, hell if Ellison helps these loving idiots purge him too.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 1, 2017 17:49
|
|
|
truavatar posted:indivisible stuff How do you(and I guess people in general) feel about your local Indivisible group in terms of lasting action? The one in my area is a bunch old white lady liberals who scoff at counter-protesters and shout you down if you call them hypocrites when they talk poo poo about counter-protests is counter productive and off message for the whole "We are Indivisible!" slogan. I was like, "maybe looking at what we can do to plan court support for those arrested would be more productive?" I decided they're a bunch of centrists looking for some feel goods by dunking on Trump and to not waste my time beyond trolling their Facebook page.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 7, 2017 23:37
|
|
|
Dr. Fishopolis posted:You have a vision for the future. You can't shout at people to get them to see what you see. You have to show it to them in terms they can understand. probably true, but shouting at people who can only spout liberal media talking points is just as fun as shouting at people who can only repeat right wing ones
|
|
#
¿
Mar 8, 2017 00:35
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 16, 2024 22:42 |
|
|
FAUXTON posted:This is a distinct possibility, for a solid week after the US election a lot of nominally leftist people were doing the same thing in ignoring the blatant stoking of racial hatred. a lot of peeps ignoring that poo poo before the election too and suddenly democrats care about millions being deported and stuffed into concrete boxes with space blankets
|
|
#
¿
Mar 17, 2017 02:25
|
|