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Vagrant Story would be a dope game to get a sequel or even just an HD remake that cleaned up a bunch of janky poo poo, but I realize that isn't going to happen so hell
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Nov 21, 2016 08:28
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For what it's worth my understanding was that the pre-Falcon portion of the world of ruin in FF6 was supposed to last a lot longer than it did, and it was cut for size and complexity reasons. The biggest hint we have of that is after the Falcon takes off and the hopeful Looking for Friends song kicks in, Edgar's immediate comment is "I'm starting to think we might actually pull this off" when he just joined up a second ago basically
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Nov 21, 2016 09:20
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One question I wonder about is did the merger with Enix ruin Square or was it just going to happen anyway? Final Fantasy X from Square was the last okay FF. Since the merger with Square-Enix though I haven't liked a single RPG from them yet. What I'm starting to say now is I loved Squaresoft but I hate Square-Enix.
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Nov 21, 2016 10:27
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Spirits Within is what led to the shakeup of Square. The Enix owned franchises like Dragon Quest are consistently great.
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Nov 21, 2016 10:32
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Things that turn me off of bad Final Fantasies and bad JRPGs in general: -Boring intros. Ask most people what their favorite FF games are, and they'll usually say something like 6,7, or 9. Note that those games' openings had you in a fight or established some kind of conflict at some point within the first 15 minutes or so. There's conflict and tension right from the start that not only gets you playing the game, but giving events to help develop characters. -Bad characters. What the hell is anyone's motivation anymore? Everybody's just 20 or younger and mad. In FF6, you had a human-monster hybrid girl on the run from an evil empire, a well-meaning thief rebel whose actions were always being influenced by his crush on said monster lady or his desire to fight against the Empire, and a king who pretended to play ball with the Empire but secretly opposed them on pure moral grounds who gave up security for what he thought was right. I don't feel any sort of humanity in the characters anymore. They're usually just there because the plot says they are. -Tetsuya Nomura's character designs are bad. FF7 gets poo poo on for this, but I think it's one of the best games to show the problems as it has a share of genuinely good designs and bad designs to compare with one another. Everything in Cid's clothing and appearance have him set up as a washed-out pilot who spends all day working on machinery. Nothing in Sephiroth's clothing seems to say anything about him. He doesn't look like a high-ranking soldier turned drifter/cult leader thing. He's just anime, wears a leather trench coat, and holds a giant sword. Never mind the main character who doesn't even look like he could physically lift his own weapon. Here's a lesson in decent character design:  Now there are some things I'd call problems in the designs (mainly with some of the clothes, but that's been FF for the past 8 games or so), but there is a lot of good here. By looking at nearly any character, you can tell they come from a world inspired by different eras of western civilization (most likely a mix of Middle Ages and Renaissance), and that their game features a world of swords, castles, kings/queens, with possible surprises like magic or emerging technology. You can guess that there will be some kind of powerful evil figure and that these people come from different walks of life to defeat that figure. You can tell all of that just by looking at them. Furthermore, you can look at large muscular characters like Steiner and Amarant and tell that they are probably physically strong fighters, or see Zidane's slim yet muscular physique as a roguish type of fighter. These people form a juxtaposition with other characters with less physically strong-looking builds. The audience having expectations built up about a fantasy video game world, as well as characters like Vivi evoking common images of wizards or witches would lead the average person to assume that these characters use magic or some other means of combat. The character designer understands that appearance is influenced by the character and world, and act as their own story-telling mechanism. Now let's take a look at an image I found when I typed "FF15 characters":  All of these characters look like they were converted from common manga/anime tropes into what would pass as "realistic" for high-fidelity 3d graphics. Everybody's got a slim outline, is roughly in their 20s, wears an outfit that would be considered high-fashion to a handful of people in one country in the modern era, and tells us nothing about them. Who here uses magic, weapons, etc.? How would we peg any of them as fighters, and how would they defeat the giant monsters we've seen in previews?
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Nov 21, 2016 11:16
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A modern Vagrant Story game would probably resemble a more stat heavy Dark Souls nowadays. The atmosphere of exploring Lea Monde felt like a From Software game.
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Nov 21, 2016 11:25
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Eej posted:FF13 was really bad but Hope was pretty cool so I gotta say this: did you miss the part where Hope says he's gonna get revenge on the guy who got his mother killed and then Lightning is like cool, and gives him a knife to stab him with? That's literally the reason why he tags along. Because his mother died in a way he saw that wasn't directly to do with Snow at all. He's a kid and I expect him to not get that but everyone else? Come on.
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Nov 21, 2016 11:39
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Taear posted:Because his mother died in a way he saw that wasn't directly to do with Snow at all. He's a kid and I expect him to not get that but everyone else? Come on. The only person who knows that Snow is connected with Hope's mom's death aside from Hope himself is Vanille and she keeps trying to get him to talk to him. Everyone else, including Snow, is in the dark about it. In any case, it's mostly resolved with Hope deciding that he should not in fact, shank a dude (who is having a mental breakdown about how worthless he is as a human being) and grows a bit into not a turd.
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Nov 21, 2016 11:58
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Speaking of Sazh, he was in the sequels to XIII but did next to nothing plot wise and was just shoved in the corner so people could say "Oh hey, that guy's here too".
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Nov 21, 2016 12:09
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Plan Z posted:Now let's take a look at an image I found when I typed "FF15 characters": Also, Matsuno is working on another game. It's on Kickstarter. It's...it looks really bad. 
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Nov 21, 2016 12:23
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If you are not playing JRPGs for the genuine anime experience, you are doing it wrong.
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Nov 21, 2016 16:45
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thorsilver posted:It never ceases to amaze me that so many people on this forum actually like FF XII. The story is sleep-inducing and derivative, the main character is pointless, the combat was automated away rather than made actually fun; I hated virtually everything about that game and still consider it one of the biggest disappointments in gaming. To be fair it looks gorgeous though. It has a huge, mostly open world that feels real. There's tons of sidequests and optional content, secret areas, etc. The plot is actually good, even though the main character is kind of lame, the combat is the same as any other Final Fantasy but with the ability to remove the busywork, which is good.
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Nov 21, 2016 16:57
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I think the guy who said the problem with modern Final Fantasy is that the creative leads have extremely narrow interests (anime, fashion, videogames) and thus have a hard time saying anything authentic about actual human beings was on the money 
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Nov 21, 2016 17:08
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FFX-2 was truly the peak of the series and, well, all of video games in general.
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Nov 21, 2016 17:27
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Endorph posted:cloud isn't a big uncaring nobody, he's an awkward goofy hick who's trying way too hard to be cool but winds up saying poo poo like 'let's mosey' Honestly I held the opinion ff7 was terribly written for years but going back and playing through it again it's actually subtly good b/c of poo poo like this. He's literally pretending to be a special forces soldier for the first 2/3s of the game. There's a lot of layers to the writing in FF7, there's a lot more characterization there than people gave it credit for, and a lot of foreshadowing. The big problem with FF7's plot is the heavy handed religious symbolism, which is the same problem with every loving Squaresoft game that came out in the first few years on the playstation. It's like after Evangelion finished everybody needed to find a way to put metaphors for christianity in everything. Sephiroth is dumb but I think a lot of what makes him dumb is how he came to represent the very concept of the edgelord, so, lol. Does he count as a cliche when he's the mold the cliche was cast from? If you want to look at a game with actual terrible writing (that we all thought was totally awesome at the time) go play Xenogears and try not to cringe. Xenosaga's even worse. Mirthless fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Nov 21, 2016 |
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Nov 21, 2016 17:29
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Mirthless posted:If you want to look at a game with actual terrible writing (that we all thought was totally awesome at the time) go play Xenogears and try not to cringe. This might sound a little naive but despite playing a lot of JRPGs as a kid I was never into anime and never watched any. After the first couple hours of Xenosaga Ep. 1 I thought to myself, "aha, so THIS is anime."
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Nov 21, 2016 17:32
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exquisite tea posted:This might sound a little naive but despite playing a lot of JRPGs as a kid I was never into anime and never watched any. After the first couple hours of Xenosaga Ep. 1 I thought to myself, "aha, so THIS is anime." Exactly. Xenosaga is anime, and it's not even good anime. It's bad anime written by people with very weird, very specific fetishes and a love of tortured religious symbolism. Xenogears tries to be good anime, but it's really just Square's attempt to make Fantasy Neon Genesis Evangelion and while they arguably succeeded Neon Genesis Evangelion was not really good anime either (despite what we all thought at the time)
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Nov 21, 2016 17:34
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I'm learning a lot in this thread about how some games that I enjoyed playing were actually bad, poo poo, complete dungus
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Nov 21, 2016 17:49
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I'm glad you're learning. your mother and I were starting to get worried about you
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Nov 21, 2016 18:38
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Control Volume posted:I'm learning a lot in this thread about how some games that I enjoyed playing were actually bad, poo poo, complete dungus the comments about inmates being in control of the asylum at square are hysterical when you consider the situation in this thread
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Nov 21, 2016 18:42
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Nov 21, 2016 18:52
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I understand that Final Fantasy fans are by definition heavily reverential of the mid-late 90s era of JRPGs and will always say FF6 was their favorite, or FF7 or FFT, maybe 4 if they want to be a real contrarian hero. But search your heart, and you will realize that FFX-2 is the best of the series in every single aspect. I know most of you are too embarrassed to admit it, but I know it's true.
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Nov 21, 2016 19:02
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Mirthless posted:Xenogears tries to be good anime, but it's really just Square's attempt to make Fantasy Neon Genesis Evangelion and while they arguably succeeded Neon Genesis Evangelion was not really good anime either (despite what we all thought at the time) I haven't seen eva but the director's godzilla movie was great so I bet it's good too
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Nov 21, 2016 19:05
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Gas this thread, close Games and ban all Games posters
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Nov 21, 2016 19:36
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Motto posted:I haven't seen eva but the director's godzilla movie was great so I bet it's good too Mirthless is a known troll
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Nov 21, 2016 19:52
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frank.club posted:Mirthless is a known troll yep you got me, Xenogears is a totally good game you guys you should check it out  if you don't get it, it's just too deep for you 
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Nov 21, 2016 20:15
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Xenogears is win yeah, you sure you're alright?
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Nov 21, 2016 21:07
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I dunno that looks pretty good
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Nov 21, 2016 21:08
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exquisite tea posted:I understand that Final Fantasy fans are by definition heavily reverential of the mid-late 90s era of JRPGs and will always say FF6 was their favorite, or FF7 or FFT, maybe 4 if they want to be a real contrarian hero. But search your heart, and you will realize that FFX-2 is the best of the series in every single aspect. I know most of you are too embarrassed to admit it, but I know it's true. Lightning Returns is actually the best FF game. 14 is a close second. 15 looks like it'll be great though, especially if it has boys kissing boys.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:10
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lets hang out posted:I dunno that looks pretty good It's one of the best reviewed jrpgs ever and a classic
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Nov 21, 2016 21:15
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:This isn't what these characters look like anymore, and they haven't looked like this for several years. Prompto (blondie in the back) in particular is completely different. Did you word it like that as a coincidence, or were you being intentionally misleading? I didn't know that, but from what I see the design switch isn't really enough for me to abandon my point. They all just look like bad fashion models.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:18
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exquisite tea posted:I understand that Final Fantasy fans are by definition heavily reverential of the mid-late 90s era of JRPGs and will always say FF6 was their favorite, or FF7 or FFT, maybe 4 if they want to be a real contrarian hero. But search your heart, and you will realize that FFX-2 is the best of the series in every single aspect. I know most of you are too embarrassed to admit it, but I know it's true. I will agree with this in that it probably has the best battle and job system in the series. But that story. And the annoying way it expects New Game +. Ugh.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:21
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frank.club posted:It's one of the best reviewed jrpgs ever and a classic Was the bar really all that high in 1998? The main villain of Xenogears is the manifestation of the main character's trauma that he experienced when he was four years old Somehow this manifestation is also superhuman and can like throw buildings and poo poo, don't worry about it kid he's like "The Chosen One" or something, now let's go down the sephiroth to the tree of light and ahura mazda the revelations The gameplay of Xenogears was really good but good god that story, lol Mirthless fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Nov 21, 2016 |
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Nov 21, 2016 21:22
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Mirthless posted:Was the bar really all that high in 1998? It was actually the serially reincarnated OS of a haywire terraforming robot that came to be worshipped as God, plus Bishie Mengele.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:26
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ATB is boring and bad in a way that had a very niche thing before turn based made interesting combat again
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Nov 21, 2016 21:28
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evangelion and atb are both good, actually final fantasy 4 is one of those games that seems really rudimentary and simple to modern people playing it for like the tenth time but relative to nes/famicom jrpgs that poo poo was loving nuts, the way bosses changed forms in real-time and all the gimmicks going on with stuff like the fiends and baigan and asura
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Nov 21, 2016 21:32
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Mirthless posted:Was the bar really all that high in 1998? Totally dude the bar hit all time lows with mostly forgotten JRPG title from 1997 Final FantasyVII
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Nov 21, 2016 21:31
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Oxxidation posted:It was actually the serially reincarnated OS of a haywire terraforming robot that came to be worshipped as God, plus Bishie Mengele. I didn't finish the novel that came with the game so I didn't get that far frank.club posted:Totally dude the bar hit all time lows with mostly forgotten JRPG title from 2006 Final FantasyVII Wasn't making a commentary on the quality of RPGs of the time, I'm saying, "It was 1998". In 1998 reviewers would, for example, forgive a game developer for putting over 200,000 lines of dialogue and almost no gameplay on the second disc. There was not a wide array of things to compare it to and the genre hadn't been attempted on this scale prior to CD media. I don't think the same game would be as well received today. Mirthless fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Nov 21, 2016 |
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Nov 21, 2016 21:32
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I think you just don't like games
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Nov 21, 2016 21:36
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I'm willing to bet very few contemporary/pre-launch reviewers got to the 2nd disc of Xenogears before writing their review
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Nov 21, 2016 21:37
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