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Bip Roberts posted:Dunno where you're coming from but I don't see making a the connection between crazy pizzagate conspiracy theorists on the internet and people going crazy IRL as a stretch. perhaps, but also nutty people have been lashing out for one crazy idea or another for years. if marc lepine had committed his crimes today he'd be denounced as an MRA with ties to r/redpill. it's not good to automatically assume some causal connection versus just "Crazy people like indulging their crazy ideas with other crazy people" Mulaney Power Move posted:I read up way too much on pizzagate and one real thing I did take away from it is that John Podesta seems to be into really creepy art. I'm not saying that means anything other than Podesta is into really creepy art, though. Who is it? Marina Abramović? Yeah that broad is nuts. she's not, she's extremely talented and well known as good at what she does. 80 years ago you'd be saying salvador dali is a satanist or something. one of her pieces even went viral a few years ago, which is a pretty big coup for artsy fartsy performance pieces https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS0Tg0IjCp4 check out the extremely good comments on this video from the last couple months boner confessor fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 15:27
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BarbarianElephant posted:Unbalanced people definitely take their cues from society's ideas. About half the "lone wolf" Islamic terrorists out there are "inspired" by the likes of ISIS rather than being part of an organized terrorist cell, but somehow the Islamist masterminds never get let off for the fact that their orders were not given directly. uhh i dont think anyone "lets off" ISIS. like all any news outlet needs to do is publish ISIS' declaration of "recent violence? oh yeah, we inspired that, it's all on us" and hundreds of thousands of people flock on social media to denounce islam Polygynous posted:Neat, I didn't realize she was actually well-known or anything. Makes the whole thing even better / worse. i mean she's not well known to most people who for obvious reasons don't follow or care about the art world but within the art world she's massive and well known "it's weird/creepy/evil" is the kind of stuff people say about performance art when they say "my kid could do that" about abstract art, or "it's just grown men chasing a ball" about pro sports, or any number of other reflex "this is beneath my time" dismissals of things people don't care enough to understand boner confessor fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 15:37
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Mulaney Power Move posted:I don't think her art is good, I think it's creepy, and Dali was a weird guy too except I actually like some of his paintings. Just because I don't share your tastes in weird performance art doesn't mean I'm ignorant or "don't get it," unless you simply want to be pretentious. it's hard to be more pretentious then dismissing anything you don't understand as fundamentally flawed rkajdi posted:I think the issue is that it's more middle American ignorati claiming stuff they don't like is Satanist or worthy of a whispers campaign about. These people are walking into a conversation they know nothing about and getting mad that they don't like what is being discussed. Again, ignorance is something to be ashamed of, not a virtue. pretty much. it's the same as people claiming heavy metal was satanist back in the 80's. black sabbath's bassist was a devout christian, all the sabbath songs about satan very clearly talk about him in either a negative or vaguely unsettling neutral context, but that still didn't stop rumors about ozzy biting the head off a bat on stage. when judas priest was accused of using backwards messages to tell children to kill themselves for the devil, their producer said "if that technology existed i'd tell them to buy two copies of our records". people get creeped out if they lack the cultural context to understand an art and that's on them, not on the artist boner confessor fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 18:13
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it's not really "more cynical than thou" to point out that it's trendy to complain about fake news when fake news outlets have been a thing for a long time - drudge has been around since the 90's, drudge spawned breitbart in the late aughts, there have been threads making fun of clickbait for years, and that's just on the internet. tabloids have been around forever, people have made fun of cable news for more than a decade, etc. the onion is nearly thirty years old. it's kind of ironic that fake news is a big problem now that the audiences of real news outlets are fishing around for a reason they lost the election
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Dec 7, 2016 18:30
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Tim Raines IRL posted:I think the word is "obvious", not "ironic". no, i mean, big respectable journalists all writing about how fake news is a problem now because fake news is a topic their audience really wants to read about and everyone's expected to have a hot take on it lest the market leave you behind...
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Dec 7, 2016 18:32
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Potato Salad posted:What precisely is the issue with it now being trendy to scream to the public about fake news, particularly in the shadow of such a disastrous event and with such a wealth of great examples of notorious misinformation available? the big reason fake news exists is because that's what the audience wants to hear. and the reason fake news is a problem right now instead of at any point in the last twenty years or so is because, turns out, that's what people who read respectable journalism want to read about right now. of course there very well could have been journalists talking about fake news in 2014, it just had no appeal to the audience of the time. perhaps there's a larger structural problem in for-profit journalism
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Dec 7, 2016 18:40
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BarbarianElephant posted:It's more "cynical than thou" because it's conflating the establishment press's mistakes and bias with the right-wing nonsense factory's deliberate lies. you're missing my point here - the establishment isn't left, the liars aren't right. there's establishment and fringe outlets on both sides the point is, it's pretty silly for the establishment to decry how the fake news sites cater to their audience's demands when the establishment itself is responding to its audience's demand for reassurances that fake news is bad when making fun of fox news etc. has been a staple of this forum since at least 2005 as just the most local example of people making fun of fake news. it's the same principle as the drug war being a problem once suburban white kids start getting addicted to heroin instead of poor downtown black kids. no, it's always been a problem. the question is why is the conversation happening now when it should have happened sooner. people didn't go on about the fake news ecosystem when john kerry got swiftboated, they talked about that specific example
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Dec 7, 2016 19:56
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BarbarianElephant posted:People didn't talk about the fake news ecosystem back then because it wasn't a thing yet. It needed every right-wing uncle to be on Facebook and Twitter to have enough of an audience. One fake article isn't a trend, but this year it has become a trend. There's a deluge of them. so you're defining fake news as "something which only exists on social media and began in 2016"? tabloid journalism and the half-penny press are over a century old. the john birch society was founded in 1958. fortean times is from 1973. coast to coast am started broadcasting in 1984. drudge report kicked off in 1996. internet hoaxes have been around longer than that. the problem isn't new, mass awareness of and anger towards the problem is new - before 2016 people didn't feel as injured by fake news, it was something to laugh at rather than a potential reason that trump won the election
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Dec 7, 2016 20:35
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Bip Roberts posted:So you're saying that fake news should definitely still be an important issue. sure, but are people really complaining about fake news which has been around forever, or idiots on social media which is impolite so let's talk about lack of truth in journalism. all i'm saying is that fake news isn't new and it's not suddenly a problem now, it's been a problem for a long time that people are suddenly keenly interested in discussing for reasons
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Dec 7, 2016 21:01
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BarbarianElephant posted:I love the Fortean Times. It's a journal of weird stuff, like frog rain and people who woke up at their own funeral. Conflating it with the type of "fake news" that people are het up about now is very... odd. One might think that someone was trying to muddy the waters a little... "this fake media which i understand as satire is both cool and good, unlike the fake media that the simpletons consume to cater to their preferences"
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Dec 7, 2016 21:07
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