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Tei
Feb 19, 2011

NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:

That's kind of depressing, really. I know a fair amount of people who used their creativity to lever themselves to a better life, usually through writing or art. Some of them just make a few hundred dollars a month, but if you're grinding along in this economy, a few hundred bucks a month can make a real difference.

Good luck making a buck through writing when AI authors take off.

Meh, art.

Art is the propaganda machine of the power. Artist can't feed themselves, so they get paid by who have money.

Walk trough some museum, is all kings and queens and gods. Stuff ordered by the powerful.

gently caress that. gently caress art. Lets try something else, maybe is better.


Edit:
actually art is awesome, is also a slave of power and a instrument of control

Tei fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Dec 22, 2017

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Tei
Feb 19, 2011

I have a problem here.

You guys talk like owning a robot is all would take for a poor to be at the same level a rich guy that owns a robot.

Heres something for you:
https://www.cnet.com/news/facebook-closes-19-billion-deal-for-whatsapp/

Facebook paid 19 billion dollars for a IRC client. Writting a IRC client is not very hard, all it takes is about 2 hours of programming.

http://archive.oreilly.com/pub/h/1968

So whats going on here? Why Facebook paid 19 billions for a "robot" that is really cheap? It seems that you don't care about the code itself (the robot) you care about the captured customers base.

Poors can own robots, the means of production, but thats useless to them. They will still be poors. Theres more here in play that owning the means of productions. Theres also something to say about having a contact with the people that provide raw materials, having bargaining power, having a marketing muscle, and so on.


Lets not be naive. A university student can own a printer, and that will not save him from paying 300$ for a crappy book his teacher wrote. Just owning a means of production don't make people peers from the people with power.

Tei
Feb 19, 2011

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

Hey, someone write a scifi story where in the future instead of netflix streaming a video file it just streams some 3D assets and a general script outline for a movie and then your personal filter bubble AI renders a realistic 3D movie out of it on the fly personalized to you the way like google news mostly only shows you news it already knows you'd like. So like, your own personal copy of Juno II does or doesn't go more into the anti-abortion angle depending on what it knows you'd want and you can only really intelligibly talk about movies with people that exist in your own personal sphere, the same way news now basically might as well be from an alternate universe if you talk to people from another political "tribe" and the news they consume.

If you want this, I can do this for you using 1981 technology. Movies are filmed with more assets than necessary, sometimes with multiple endings. And the publisher / director decide how to cut and mount the parts. This is because they decide what would be more fun / better received.

But we can review every section they filmed, then label it, "optimist/pessimist" , "bland/controversial", and build some sort of connected three "this scene can follow scene A, C, and J" "you can put scene K, L, N after this one".

The algorithm would be a simple filter based on preferences, or maybe a random number generator when it have to navigate over equally valid options.

Then you would have a special version called "Directors Movie" that would be the preselected one by the director, the canonical one.

Tei
Feb 19, 2011

Let me use this space to whine about human memory. Is like a lovely compression algorithm.

Tei
Feb 19, 2011

Teal posted:

The critical difference between human memory and an autoencoder is that we build the representation on basis of abstract yet meaningful parallels and there's no proof this will ever work by feeding a "large enough" neural net based autoencoder of this type "enough data".

The foundation of your memory of a piece of cake you ate yesterday is understanding of cocoa which fills in the flavour, the colour, the scent, the likely texture cocoa based cakes have. You don't need to remember the angles the slice had, because you've seen a whole cake before and have seen a circle sliced into wedges countless times before. You don't need to think about if it came served on porcelain or a patch of snow, because you know cakes come on platters, and those are usually made of porcelain.

Feeding all those connections in a meaningful manner without "stubs" into a neural net might easily turn out to simply not work; even if you have the resources to make it huge and give it all the data and time it might possibly mean, NNs come without a guarantee of ever converging to the global minimum (e: of training error, which is in this case extremely hard to define); it might simply enough not figure out the right connections in stuff (and it's often the case, and the best you can do is shrug and keep trying new and new combinations of parameters and data representations and eventually something else to do).

It don't seems to be a huge difference. Or maybe I am too dumb to understand any of this.

It don't sounds like autoencoders work very differently than human memory, only that human memory uses another subsystem (a tokenizer/ a lexer phase) that autoencoders don't include.

Tei
Feb 19, 2011

The left side version of the second image is better, the blue right side image have lost some deep feel and everything is kind of ...on foreground all the time.

A algorithm did this? woot!

Tei
Feb 19, 2011

A post of what image detection can already do in the real world:

- Face detection: find faces in a image
- Face detection: "Who is this face?"
- Face verification: "Is this the Bill Laden?"
- Emotion detection: "is this face stressed?"
- Age Detection: "is this a boy or a young teenager?"
- Gender Detection: "is this person female or male?"
- Attention Measurement: "is this person distracted?"
- Ethnicity Detection: "is this middle-east asia face?"

In the future you will never be true alone in some places like a train station or a airport, something will be looking at your face all the time and reading your emotions, and they will know if you are sad, stressed and so on.

Tei
Feb 19, 2011

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

A global weather style map of people's emotion would be really cool

It will make me happy if instead of "is rich people making a lot of money gambling in wall street" we use a metric like "is people happy?", but if it involver massive mass surveillance, maybe not?

Tei
Feb 19, 2011

paternity suitor posted:

Ew, now I'm imagining some sort of app that scans people's reaction to your appearance and gives you a ranking at the end of the day so that you know what to wear...those shoes cost you 2 attraction points Rachel.

Building this would not be too hard, since you can use already existing apps..

https://www.faceplusplus.com/
https://www.kairos.com/features
https://www.betafaceapi.com/wpa/

...is only these API's are expensive, so you either write your own algorithm or have a solid business model around it.

Maybe we can target womens and make "Baby language translators". If we can make a phone app that tell newbie parents why a baby is crying, it will be a advance for both parents and babies.

The next step would be "Husband lie detector", telling womens if the husband is lying.

For men we can make a "Lying women detector".

We can use the API's that check stress levels and make the apps like some sort of polygraph.

Tei
Feb 19, 2011

Seems a good idea.

Tei
Feb 19, 2011

Slavvy posted:

Sure, now imagine giving people something that objectively classifies how good looking people are (or is perceived to do so anyway) and you'll get actual social striation and not just casual ugly-bigotry. I just don't see any positives to mechanising people's differences.

The problem with this type of thinking is there will more than one index. Also, it helps people with a 30 reach a 90. It will not help a 90 get to 100.

Tei
Feb 19, 2011

Amazon plans for total world domination and nothing less.

Tei
Feb 19, 2011

Maybe the concept of "inteligence" is not a useful one.

Is good to have concepts and have words to describe poo poo, but "inteligence" has not really helped us much.

Tei
Feb 19, 2011

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

I think you can talk about people being tall or short but if you tried to develop machines to be tall that would be like, a metal pole. A lot of attributes only make sense when only applied to similar things. The empire state building is not the tallest man on earth.

Makes sense to me. But I still vote to drop the expression inteligence in this context. Lets talk about problem solving machines instead, and include humans in this group.

Tei
Feb 19, 2011

Technology saves many lives, thats a fact. Most of us will not even exist if not where to technology.

Lets wait and see if they find something wrong happened here.

Tei
Feb 19, 2011

BENGHAZI 2 posted:

Self driving cars on the other hand are clearly not saving lives

Less traffic accidents will save lives. Many.

Then you will have the anecdotal case of pregnant women being driven to a hospital, or very ill person driven to a hospital. Is easy to imagine how many lives will be saved from people that need to go to a hospital but cant drive.

Tei
Feb 19, 2011

BENGHAZI 2 posted:

Agreed, its good that we finally found a way to get people who can't drive to the hospital, which we've been struggling with for years

Dear Benghazi2.

I have consider you suggest to say "gently caress you and get a ambulance" to everyone that need to go a hospital and can't drive. Like old people, infants, pregnant womens.

While I consider your suggestion valuable, and have a point heres the standard reply.

No, gently caress You, insensitive clod.

Thanks for your feedback.

Tei
Feb 19, 2011

BENGHAZI 2 posted:

Ah yes the insensitivity of pointing out that a thing already exists and that self driving cars doesn't actually fix the problem with that thing and instead creates new ones how dare i

[non combative version]
Every technology create new problems, this has been true since we invented fire, we invented farming, we invented drinking milk from cows, and so on.

Tei fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Mar 20, 2018

Tei
Feb 19, 2011

SwissCM posted:

Ultimately the technology is designed to follow the road rules, perhaps it's possible to follow these rules to the letter and still wind up killing someone. In which case it may not be the technology's fault, but rather the legal and logistical frameworks it's designed to work with.

I do not agree. The law is not a social OS. Robots must follow human rules on top the law.

Tei
Feb 19, 2011

SwissCM posted:

"Don't run over people" is probably something they've already got programmed in. But to follow through on that it needs accurate information from it's environment, just like humans do. The environment a self driving car interacts with is a direct result of law, the design of the roads, the iconography, dealing with problems stemming from blind spots and other safety issues are all a responsibility of the state.

Perhaps roads and the laws governing them are just badly designed and result in deaths, even when drivers are "perfect"?


1.- Too many laws is a bad thing. We already have too many. The laws we have are so complex we need experts to understand them. This is again a bad thing. We don't want to add extra more laws if possible.

2.- We want everything to be free. And only add laws when a idiot find a thing that break other people lives. Like we don't want laws against people inserting random things in their anus. The more laws, the less free we are, because laws restrict freedom (generally).

3.- Laws are designed by humans, that are imperfect beings. Laws sometimes are designed with a malicious /political/ intend from somebody with a public or secret agenda. We don't want politicians to take engineering decisions that are not driven by logic, but some malicious intend. Laws are a blunt instrument, they break havoc and destroy much sooner before they start being useful and a good for society.

4.- Feasibility. To completely define how automatic cars run in roads with not space for free will, it may require so many laws that would be a giant effort. So much that can be unpractical. A group of SGML gurus are still working in a hotel in HAWAII since 1981 tryiing to agree in the perfect format for datetimes.

Tei
Feb 19, 2011

Teal posted:

I feel like the issue is an accident happened and lot of posters here are tripping over themselves to show their preexisting bias for or against self driving cars and it's kind of ridiculous and undignified.

No? maybe no?

1. A thing happened, that is relevant to the thread, and that alone bump it.

2. Is about cars, and cars is the favorite bikeshedding of this thread. .

3. A lot of people have a anti-science, anti-technology and anti-logic agenda. They come from the left and from the right. This result in very dangerous developments like the anti-vaxers. We have to fight these ideas.

Tei
Feb 19, 2011

automated cars will save lives directly,

but is going to cost lives trough unrest, rebellion and famine.

the reason is that we don't have a solid way to distribute wealth.

technology is perfectly fine, is our societies that are stagnant in a bad system (capitalism)

Tei
Feb 19, 2011

It will be interesting (for a small subset of people) where really automatic cars will have problems.

I don't think will be in the actual driving thing. Is because our society is shaped by people with neurosis and narcissism and is not always logical.
And then, you have the random person that have crazy ideas to exploit dumb mechanism.

I could totally see somebody having 200 automated crash drive to the bottom of a quarry. Or somebody making a automatic cars "cheat" on their owner the weekends. Or all type of crazy things.

In the end, I am pretty sure that we will limit the use of automated cars to well defined problems, like the roads between urban areas OR we will change how roads work to be better for automated cars (and worse for humans). Automated cars are stupid, but we can make the roads "smart" by embedding hint technologies to help these cars drive better.

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Tei
Feb 19, 2011


Hey, I have a idea. Lets add "voice activation" to cars, so you say out loud "Hey car, I need you", and the car unpark and run where you are (in the entrance of the mall) to pick you.

What could go wrong?

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