The Suburban Solution

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Suburban Solution

Tiny Brontosaurus: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

Fargo Fukes posted:

I hope this doesn't really need to be said but these are terrible ideas.

The smarter thing to do would be to rein in power of local governments and tear up zoning laws across the board. A big part of the reason developers have fled out to build endless lovely tract housing in desert scrubland is that no-one will fight them doing it. They throw up the houses, they sell the houses. Or not. The things are so cheap I wouldn't be surprised if they could eat the occasional complete failure and go build somewhere else. Try renovating a multi-building lot within a city block on the other hand and it's endless complaints from authorities with masses of power but no responsibility. There's huge amounts of money to be made in building or renovating nice modern housing in cities, and plenty of old or badly purposed lots that need fixed up. The pieces to the solution are all there, if the local governments could ever be convinced to get out of the way.

This is like anti-vax but for real estate. "Why do we use these dumb umbrellas?? I never get wet"

# ¿ Dec 11, 2016 20:09

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 03:41

Tiny Brontosaurus: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

Badger of Basra posted:

The Obama White House agrees with him: https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/images/Housing_Development_Toolkit%20f.2.pdf

Oh Well In That Case.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2016 20:42

Tiny Brontosaurus: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

Cicero posted:

Completely getting rid of zoning is a bad idea but radically loosening the restrictions is a good idea. Specifically, generally allowing for higher density, and for mixed uses in a zone would both be really good.

I believe Japanese zoning works with the idea of a zone having a sort of maximum nuisance level (based on noise, traffic, pollution, etc.) and so instead of explicitly allowing/disallowing specific uses per zone, each potential use has a nuisance level associated with it, and so you're good to go as long as a proposed use is under the max for that zone.

A guy who thinks "endless lovely tract housing in desert scrubland" is a model for how the real estate industry should work is not a supporter of higher density, mixed-use zoning, and "radically loosening the restrictions" would not get you higher density, mixed-use zoning, it would get you whatever developers see the biggest dollar signs in.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2016 22:40

Tiny Brontosaurus: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

Badger of Basra posted:

He didn't say it was a model. He said it's happens because that's what is easiest to build. If you made it easier to build other things (like mixed use, high density) then those things would happen more often.

No, then they would just build the easy thing in more places.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2016 23:37

Tiny Brontosaurus: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

Badger of Basra posted:

There are ways to make it easier to build desired developments while keeping them from building suburban tract homes in the middle of downtown.

I agree! Those ways are called "the power of local governments." Welcome to the conversation.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2016 23:43

Tiny Brontosaurus: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

Cicero posted:

That said I don't think anyone is suggesting getting rid of basic building codes that mandate a minimum quality of construction.

Here is a direct quote from the idiot I was originally responding to:

Fargo Fukes posted:

The smarter thing to do would be to rein in power of local governments and tear up zoning laws across the board.

I don't know who you think would be mandating minimum construction quality if not local governments. See what happened here is Fargo Fukes said a dumb insane thing, and I said "yo that's dumb and insane" and everyone started piling on me going "Why don't you like smart sane things? It's not like anyone suggested something dumb and insane" and hi, everyone, please meet Fargo Fukes.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2016 01:09

Tiny Brontosaurus: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

Cicero posted:

When people are talking about zoning regulations they're almost always talking about what uses are allowed for an area, not fundamental building standards. Those are different things. The latter is mostly about safety, the former is more about neighborhood character.

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Building_code

Obviously most cities in the US still have zoning regulations.

Thanks for the wikipedia link, cool argument guy. Now who will be enforcing building codes if not for local governments? You keep pretending I'm opposing sane things, when I'm actually criticizing something we both think is insane. If you thing governments and zoning regulations should still exist, you are on my side, not idiot libertarian Fargo Fukes' side. This really isn't that complicated.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2016 01:18

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 03:41

Tiny Brontosaurus: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

Cicero posted:

Again, zoning regulations and building codes are not the same thing (although there are probably some bits where they overlap). Just about any discussion about zoning will not be talking about building standards. For example, see this discussion about whether Houston has zoning or not: https://urbanedge.blogs.rice.edu/2015/09/08/forget-what-youve-heard-houston-really-does-have-zoning-sort-of/#.WE3tYPkrJaQ

Notice how none of those subject areas are about minimum building standards to make sure things won't fall over or blow up? By "zoning laws" Fargo was obviously talking about this kind of thing, not "let's get rid of all building codes" because he didn't say that.

Hey moron: I know what a loving zoning law is. Are you also an idiot libertarian? Is that why this is such a struggle for you? I'd love to talk city planning with anyone who can tell the difference between "improve" and "abolish," but apparently that's not you, so why don't you and the other guy go suck each other's cocks while watching Atlas Shrugged.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ Dec 12, 2016 06:05

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