- Comstar
- Apr 20, 2007
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Are you happy now?
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I got a message out of nowhere from centrelink the week before Christmas demanding I give them details of my income or they'll get them from the ATO... I haven't been on any sort of payments in 5 years but I'm guessing it's related to this new automated debt system.
Looking forward to a demand for money they never gave me!
I think it's a 7 year time scale- I hope you kept your pay slips from then.
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Dec 30, 2016 07:39
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- Adbot
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ADBOT LOVES YOU
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May 2, 2024 08:58
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- KennyTheFish
- Jan 13, 2004
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Being poor is a choice, right?
It is their own fault for choosing to be born to the wrong parents.
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Dec 30, 2016 07:57
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- ewe2
- Jul 1, 2009
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Being poor is a choice, right?
You're misinterpreting a shiver of fear for a sneer I think.
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Dec 30, 2016 08:05
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- Graic Gabtar
- Dec 19, 2014
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squat my posts
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Being poor is a choice, right?
However, as we've established again and again poverty is by and large not a choice.
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Dec 30, 2016 08:35
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- DancingShade
- Jul 26, 2007
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by Fluffdaddy
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To be fair with all the crapware on Steam now you could probably just buy 1000 games for less than a hundred.
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Dec 30, 2016 08:48
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- Graic Gabtar
- Dec 19, 2014
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squat my posts
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To be fair with all the crapware on Steam now you could probably just buy 1000 games for less than a hundred.
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Dec 30, 2016 08:50
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- Graic Gabtar
- Dec 19, 2014
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squat my posts
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As I understand it the money isn't in games sales for the crapware, it's in the steam trading card revenue slices when people with OCD engage in transactions.
The sales aspect seems to have taken a dive now that the review system appears a lot harder to game.
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Dec 30, 2016 09:31
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- DancingShade
- Jul 26, 2007
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by Fluffdaddy
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After the 7 year fishing expedition fails to return enough revenue I have no doubt they'll try to amend the legislation and chase people down for 14 years worth of payslips.
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Dec 30, 2016 11:02
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- Comstar
- Apr 20, 2007
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Are you happy now?
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Well the text message I got said to refer to their recent letter for more details but I never got a letter... So I'll just see what happens. I've should have my group certificates with my tax stuff somewhere but nothing that narrows income down to a specific fortnight/Centrelink reporting period.
I think i read in this thread that it's also quite common not to get the letter (because they have an old address/wrong address/Australia Post sub-contractor failed to deliver it).
Your group certificates won't help, as they assume you worked the entire year already and nail you for that.
The next thing you will hear is a demand from a legal firm for immediate payment +10% recovery fee, and being debt collectors, they actually will put in the effort to hunt you down. Might be better to call and wait on hold for 1d4+1 hours to Centrelink on Tuesday.
Good luck.
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Dec 30, 2016 11:59
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- Futuresight
- Oct 11, 2012
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IT'S ALL TURNED TO SHIT!
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I think i read in this thread that it's also quite common not to get the letter (because they have an old address/wrong address/Australia Post sub-contractor failed to deliver it).
Your group certificates won't help, as they assume you worked the entire year already and nail you for that.
The next thing you will hear is a demand from a legal firm for immediate payment +10% recovery fee, and being debt collectors, they actually will put in the effort to hunt you down. Might be better to call and wait on hold for 1d4+1 hours to Centrelink on Tuesday.
Good luck.
For those who think that waiting on hold time is out of whack I was once on hold (on a pay phone on a main road because I don't own a landline) with Centrelink for 2 hours. And I started at 8:30am.
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Dec 30, 2016 12:15
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- meteor9
- Nov 23, 2007
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"That's why I put up with it."
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My wife got a debt reclamation demand letter three days before xmas. Reason? Six months ago they hosed up when I applied for a Low Income Health Care Card and decided my payslips needed to be ADDED to my income already being reported by my wife, although Centrelink also demands I report my hours halfway between paycycles, so they got confused and denied my card. I call up, they go "yeah, no, you're absolutely below the threshold, we'll kick this back over to claims and get them to actually read it."
Six months pass and not only did they never relook at my card application, but they also never fixed their fuckup and decided all those slips I submitted were extra income that cancelled her entire payment for that period. Called up, got in within an hour, and they looked again and "yeah, this system is clearly wrong, they even put you down for your year-to-date pay on every slip."
I need to find out if they docked us the reduced $20 repayment while waiting for them to fix their mistake this week, but so far so good.
Granted I was pissed about this poo poo even without it specifically hitting my family, but it's completely hosed and it's mind boggling that they're getting away with it. Aren't there class-action suits down here or anything?
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Dec 30, 2016 13:30
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- I would blow Dane Cook
- Dec 26, 2008
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quote:
He’s no Donald Trump
South Australian Senator Cory Bernardi is said to be preparing to quit the Liberals and launch a new party. Perhaps. It is rumoured. The signs are there. And he would, apparently, be bankrolled by mining magnate Gina Rinehart.
Bernardi appears to have drawn great inspiration from Donald Trump’s success in the United States. But if the aim is to emulate the American president-elect, The Cory begins with some massive drawbacks.
Trump was a showman with a massive domestic profile, thanks in part to his reality TV show. He commandeered a major political party and rode it to high office. Bernardi, by contrast, wouldn’t be recognised in the street by the vast majority of Australians. A humourless ideologue who actually seems to believe what he says, and nothing if not consistent, he couldn’t be more different from the American charlatan.
Bernardi is firmly of the political establishment, and preoccupied with arcane ideological wars. His name recognition is restricted to aficionados of that small-town soap opera known as Australian politics. And his brand of politics is cerebral and laden with symbolism. He fights for what he sees as the soul of the Liberal Party and remains true to the conservative movement, but unfortunately the wider public couldn’t care less, and nor, on the whole, could the party room. But he is big among the party base – and, of course, in the political media, because he makes good copy.
Most importantly, like many in this country who have drawn validation from Trump’s election, Bernardi chooses to emphasise one part of Trump’s brand, his “political incorrectness”: the tirades against Muslims, barely veiled racism, what some call “white nationalism.” But as for Trump’s “economic nationalism” – interventionist and big-spending – Australian conservative fans simply wish it away.
Trump won the election mostly because he was the Republican candidate and around 90 per cent of voting Republicans opted for him. But a big swing among members of the fabled white working class got him over the line, and they weren’t just drawn to him because they yearn to speak more freely about minorities.
They want their old jobs back. Someone like Bernardi, an advocate of small government and free markets, has little to offer their Australian counterparts. His strongly held positions on abortion and same-sex marriage are a yawn, if not a turn-off.
He has spent years cultivating an image as a maverick. As a rule, mavericks in major parties generate popularity in their own electorates, at the expense of their party. But compare Bernardi with Queensland MP George Christensen, another media favourite whose every asinine utterance, tweet or Facebook post is treated as newsworthy by an insatiable political media. His antics deliver him stature in his electorate of Dawson, where he might or might not survive as an independent were he to follow through on his threat to leave the Coalition if it doesn’t move to the right.
But under a party banner with the dour Bernardi as leader? Forget about it.
And there’s another problem for Bernardi. As a senator, the “maverick” electoral dynamic doesn’t kick in at all. Barring another double dissolution, he is guaranteed two terms, which is just as well for him; stripped of the Liberal banner, he would have trouble getting re-elected. The senator’s causes have never been about his state, whose vote he would rely on. Re-election would depend on his behaviour as a crossbencher over the next five years, but the market for his brand of politics is minuscule. The dextrous Nick Xenophon he ain’t.
Okay, this is largely a silly-season beat-up and any commentary (like this) merely encourages poor behaviour. The fact that MPs such as Bernardi and Christensen can take pot shots at the prime minister with impunity is symptomatic of Malcolm Turnbull’s depleted authority, thanks mostly to a poor election performance in July.
And the prospect of Christensen (or any other Coalition lower house member) moving to the crossbench gives this story much of its dazzle. But who would be dumb enough to do that and likely end their political career at the next election?
The major faultline in the federal Coalition involves two politicians who actually are household names: Barnaby Joyce and Pauline Hanson. If centre-right cohesiveness does suffer strain in 2017, it’s likely to come from the lure of One Nation, mostly among, but not restricted to, rural voters.
Hanson’s profile, language and prescriptions make her the closest thing to Australia’s Donald Trump, with one big difference: she hasn’t hijacked a major party. •
http://insidestory.org.au/hes-no-donald-trump
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Dec 30, 2016 14:37
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- Graic Gabtar
- Dec 19, 2014
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squat my posts
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Please let this happen:
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Dec 30, 2016 14:58
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- I would blow Dane Cook
- Dec 26, 2008
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Jumping ship from One Nation Craig?
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Dec 30, 2016 15:04
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- Nibbles!
- Jun 26, 2008
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TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP
make australia great again as well please
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The cynic in me thinks Cory is just trying to game the Liberals and knows he doesn't get elected without them.
The optimist really, really hopes he actually believes it and goes for it.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:37
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- Graic Gabtar
- Dec 19, 2014
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squat my posts
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Jumping ship from One Nation Craig?
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Dec 30, 2016 23:47
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- adamantium|wang
- Sep 14, 2003
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Missing you
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Here's a good analysis of why Centrelink's automated system is hosed up:
quote:
What's all the fuss about Centrelink reclaiming debts? A summary and a simple example.
Sat 31 Dec 2016 03:04
Centrelink is Australia’s welfare service, responsible for administering unemployment benefits, pensions, and other related programs. This includes making payments, checking compliance with the conditions of such programs, and collecting debts if payments were made when they shouldn’t have been.
So what’s the fuss about? Isn’t it expected that Centrelink will try to reclaim benefits that should never have been paid?
The problems arise from recent changes to how Centrelink detect incorrectly paid benefits. Centrelink have recently started using an automated system to check reported income against Australian Tax Office (ATO) data. The trouble is, it’s very error prone and makes a number of assumptions about income that don’t hold up.
To put it simply: a large percentage of these “debts” are not really debts, they’re mistakes in Centrelink’s data matching algorithm.
Here’s an example to illustrate the problems:
Let’s say you became unemployed on July 1st 2009. You claim a Centrelink benefit (eg. Youth Allowance) for a few weeks, at $430 per fortnight. (I don’t know what the Centrelink payments or thresholds were in 2009, so I’m estimating from this year’s numbers. It doesn’t really matter.) The rules for each fortnight are: if you earn $430 or below, you receive $430 from Centrelink. If you earn $430-$1173, your Centrelink payment is reduced by $0.50 for each $1 over $430. If you earn $1173 or more, you receive no Centrelink payment.
You eventually find a casual job, getting a couple of shifts some fortnights and none in other fortnights. In a good fortnight, you’ll earn $800. You report this income to Centrelink, and your payments are reduced to $245. In a bad fortnight, you’ll earn $0, so you receive your full payment of $430.
After a few months working at this job, you start to pick up many more shifts, more regularly. Now your income is $2000 per fortnight. You report this income, and since it’s over the threshold for Centrelink payments to cease, you receive no benefits any more.
When June 31st 2010 rolls around, you do your tax return. You’ve earnt $30800 over the year (13 fortnights of $2000, 6 of $800), and you report it as well as your Centrelink payments of $4480. From July 1st 2010 you continue to earn above the threshold and claim no more payments from Centerlink. End of story, you’d think.
Note that everything here is above board. Having reported your income totally honestly and accurately, you’ve only received what Centrelink say you’re entitled to: $430 in the fortnights you earn nothing, $245 in the fortnights you earn $800, and $0 for the fortnights you earn $2000.
Six and a half years later, in January 2017, you receive a notice that you owe Centrelink $4480 plus interest.
Why?
Because in 2016 Centrelink started using a data matching algorithm that says you do.
Problem 1: Centrelink’s new algorithm will take your yearly income for 2009-2010 as reported to the ATO, and average it over each fortnight of the year. It will then assume this average is exactly what you really did earn, every fortnight for 2009-2010. So if you earned $30800 over the year, Centrelink will assume this was paid to you as $30800/26 = $1185 every fortnight, no variation.
If you had earned $1185 fortnight in, fortnight out, that would have been over the threshold of $1173 each and every fortnight of that financial year. So you should have received no benefits. Centrelink assumes that this is the case, and calculates your debt to be the total of all benefits paid to you. This is despite you having made no errors. The problem is with Centrelink’s assumptions in their data matching.
So even though you reported your income honestly, and even though Centrelink has the data demonstrating that your totals are equal, you will be issued with a debt notice.
Problem 2: To determine whether you received income from a source you didn’t report, Centrelink compare the employer you report to Centrelink against the employer you reported to the ATO. Centrelink do this comparison letter by letter, without accounting for variations in spelling, typos, punctuation, etc.
So if you worked for “So & So’s Icecream Parlour”, you might have written it exactly like that. But when they were entered into the ATO’s database they might have been entered as “SO AND SOS ICE CREAM PARLOUR”. Centrelink will regard this as two different employers, and assume you received income from a source you didn’t report. They will then recalculate the reduced benefits you should have been paid, and issue you with a debt notice for the difference.
Here’s a real example (thanks to @Info_Aus) of how a well-known company entered its own name into government tender systems:
quote:PriceWaterhouseCoopers
PRICEWATERHOUSECOOPERS LEGAL
PRICE WATERHOUSE COOPERS
PriceWaterhouse Coopers
Pricewaterhousecoopers-833468126
PRICE WATERHOUSE COOPERS LEGAL
PricewaterhouseCoopers - Australian Firm
PricewaterhouseCoopers ACT
PRICEWATERHOUSECOOPERS(PWC)
PricewaterhouseCoopers.
Centrelink’s systems will regard all of these as completely different employers.
Note that all Australian businesses have an Australian business number — a unique numerical identifier — that both the ATO and Centrelink have on file. This would be a much more sensible way to match up businesses, but they don’t use it.
The expected procedure to resolve these issues is for Centrelink to notify you of the debt they’ve calculated and allow you to submit payslips or other evidence to show that the debt is incorrect or invalid. However, there are more problems that make this prone to failure, and stack the odds against the claimant.
Problem 3: The notice is sent to your online MyGov account. But not everyone uses this system, and some people even report being permanently locked out due to two-factor authentication problems. Some people have very sporadic access to the internet and therefore MyGov. Some people won’t even have Centrelink linked to their MyGov account if they have one, because they stopped claiming benefits before MyGov existed.
Centrelink will also send notices by mail, but may not have a current address for someone. If you changed address long after you stopped claiming benefits, you probably wouldn’t have bothered to update your address with Centrelink. But they’ll send the debt notice to the last address they have for you. The same problem applies to phone and email contact.
Problem 4: Centrelink is issuing debt notices for periods more than six years ago. Even the ATO only require people to keep records for five years. Until now, there has been no reason for most people to keep paperwork longer than this. Even the employers themselves, should they still exist, are unlikely to have individual, week-by-week records going back this far. Most banks charge exhorbitant fees to produce bank statements from their archives.
Problem 5: Centrelink expect you to make enquiries about this by phone, but their phone lines frequently go unanswered. It can take days or weeks for people to eventually get in contact just with someone who can tell them what is going on.
Problem 6: Centrelink expect you to pay off the debt while you are disputing whether it is even valid. The errors that they make can lead to incorrectly calculated debts of tens of thousands of dollars in some cases. Even if they determine the debt was invalid, you may have to pay hundreds of dollars in fees while they make a decision.
It’s unfair to expect people to start repaying a debt, or to pay to dispute a debt when there is a large amount of evidence that many debts will be incorrectly calculated or completely invalid. It is also extremely ineffective and costly to have such an error-prone system, especially if further action is taken legally or politically.
Sources:
Note: I’m releasing this under a slightly different license to the rest of this site: Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 (Australia) License. ie. deriviative works and commercial use is allowed, with attribution and indication of changes made.
Posted by Jason Heeris Sat 31 Dec 2016 03:04
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Dec 31, 2016 02:40
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- open24hours
- Jan 7, 2001
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It seems like a class action waiting to happen. I assume Centrelink are exempted from whatever laws there are against sending fake invoices?
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Dec 31, 2016 02:52
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- I would blow Dane Cook
- Dec 26, 2008
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quote:
Rubbish bins return to Brisbane's CBD train stations after more than two years
Rubbish bins are back at Brisbane's Central train station, more than two years after they were removed in response to the country's terrorism threat level.
All CBD stations between Bowen Hills and South Brisbane, as well as the station at Toowong, have been without bins since the 2014 G20 summit, hosted in Brisbane, when they were welded shut before they were eventually removed.
The move was in response to Australia's terrorism threat level being raised to "above moderate".
A Queensland Rail spokesman said six clear bins, similar to ones seen at Sydney and Melbourne train stations, were installed on the concourse of Central station on Thursday evening.
He said they planned to roll them out to other inner-city stations in the first half of 2017.
"We are confident that these new bins will enhance convenience for our customers and staff," he said.
Transport Minister Stirling Hinchliffe said he had previously promised to bring the bins back by the end of 2016.
"The return of bins to the concourse at Central station is a victory for common sense," Mr Hinchliffe said.
"It's something that has been raised with me by commuters on numerous occasions since becoming Transport Minister.
"We do need to remain vigilant, there's no doubting that, but the six clear bins that I have asked Queensland Rail to install at Central, combined with existing CCTV coverage, strike a sensible balance for the convenience of residents and visitors using the CityTrain network."
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-...acebook_Organic
It's a miracle!
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Dec 31, 2016 02:54
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- I would blow Dane Cook
- Dec 26, 2008
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Dec 31, 2016 03:23
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- adamantium|wang
- Sep 14, 2003
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Missing you
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It was tweeted/retweeted by a couple of wonks I follow on Twitter.
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Dec 31, 2016 05:11
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- I would blow Dane Cook
- Dec 26, 2008
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quote:
Former One Nation candidate stood down from QPS amid claims she used a gun under the influence
North Queensland police officer and former One Nation candidate Leanne Rissman has been stood down after being accused of using her gun while off duty and affected by alcohol.
The 51-year-old senior constable stood for Pauline Hanson's One Nation party in the seat of Townsville in the 2015 Queensland election.
The Queensland Police Service (QPS) said it was investigating a Northern Region officer, understood to be Ms Rissman, for attending rostered duties whilst affected by alcohol, failing to properly store and secure equipment, failing to treat people with respect and dignity, and posting personal comments on social media site Facebook which conflict with her position as a member of the police force.
In 2014 Ms Rissman caused controversy when she was found to have made disparaging remarks about Indigenous Australians on Facebook under the name Anne T Sharia and was ordered to undertake cultural counselling.
In a statement, QPS said the senior constable would continue to be paid while the current investigation by the ethical standards command was underway, but that she would perform non-operational duties.
The circumstances surrounding the allegations were not explained by QPS.
There is no information about the nature of the information allegedly posted on Facebook.
But the statement said while off duty the senior constable "utilised a Queensland Police Service firearm whilst affected by alcohol" and that she "failed to treat people with respect and dignity".
"This does not mean that the allegations against the officer have been substantiated," the statement read.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-29/senior-constable-stood-down-over-gun-handling-allegations/8152024
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Dec 31, 2016 06:24
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- I would blow Dane Cook
- Dec 26, 2008
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Mods please change my name to Anne T Sharia.
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Dec 31, 2016 06:25
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- Lid
- Feb 18, 2005
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And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.
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quote:Factional turmoil for Greens continues amid attack from Lee Rhiannon's partner
Geoff Ash defends new faction Left Renewal, which aims to end capitalism, saying it might be a wake-up call for the party’s ‘dominant right grouping’
The Greens are facing more factional turmoil, as the partner of Greens senator Lee Rhiannon publicly attacks the federal party and party room, and the party defends a new hard-left faction that is openly antagonistic towards the leader, Richard Di Natale.
Geoff Ash, a significant NSW Greens party figure and current registered officer, has defended on Facebook the new faction called Left Renewal.
Left Renewal, which was established last week, says it was formed by “rank and file” members. Its supporters include staffers and close associates of Rhiannon and NSW Greens MP David Shoebridge.
Its stated aim is to bind its members in a formal faction system – something the Greens have publicly rejected in the past – and to bring about the end of capitalism.
After news emerged of the new faction last week, Di Natale said if its members were unhappy with Greens policies they should “consider finding a new political home.”
Two days later, the group publicly attacked the Australian Greens’ support for a sugar tax, calling it a paternalistic “vice tax” that would demean the poor and working class.
Now Ash has defended the hard-left faction, posting on a public Facebook page with more than 8,000 members that it may provide a “wake-up call” for the party.
“I am a Greens NSW member but not a member of Left Renewal,” he wrote on a Facebook page this week.
“It is not at all surprising that Left Renewal has formed and think there are at least several key reasons for it.
“Not only is our suite of economic justice policies underdeveloped, some existing positions are soft (e.g. the Australian Greens axing a moderate policy of inheritance tax on wealthy estates in 2012; continued government funding of private schools, accepting corporate donations..),” he wrote.
“The formation of Left Renewal is I think also a response to the position of the dominant right grouping within the Greens, with its support for some undemocratic party structures and processes, and its vilification of some left NSW figures in the party who have campaigned against that.”
He said some people believed that the left of the party needed to pull its head in, but it was clear to him that “the right grouping needs to reform its behaviour.”
“Maybe the formation of the Left Renewal group will provide a wake-up call,” he wrote.
Neither Ash nor Rhiannon could be contacted for comment.
It is the latest round in the power struggle between elements of the NSW party and the other states, which is increasingly spilling into the public arena.
After the July 2016 election, the former Greens leader Bob Brown attacked Rhiannon, accusing her of holding the party back and introducing factionalism to the party.
Rhiannon has traditionally drawn support from the left of the party.
Brown said the NSW Greens party had been a “long-term disappointment” and had consistently opposed simple party reforms that the public expected.
“The incumbents in NSW – certainly that’s Lee in the Senate – have given great service but are not hitting a chord with the voters at the moment and we need to move on,” Brown told the ABC’s 7.30 program.
Rhiannon rejected Brown’s characterisation of the NSW party, denying she was involved in introducing factionalism and said Brown had been trying to get rid of her since 2007
Splits
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Dec 31, 2016 10:02
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- WhiskeyWhiskers
- Oct 14, 2013
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"هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)
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I mean there's no way it's going to be an actual split. It'll just be some white-anting, factional wank.
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Dec 31, 2016 11:11
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- The Peccadillo
- Mar 4, 2013
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We Have Important Work To Do
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Yoyo, your stated positions are naturally outwardly facing. They are the things you tell people you want to do. So you tell people you want to enrich and empower regular Australians and ensure the government and economy is working for them, and then you push things that empower people and reduce the power of capital and the right. The goal might be to eventually gut capitalism and bring about a new order, but you start by doing things that aren't overtly and fundamentally anti-capitalism because then you get to say things like "hey why are you opposed to protecting Australian workers and families?" over and over instead of trying to justify overturning the established order right away. You don't say you want to bring about the end of capitalism, you just happen to have a core ideal that is best served by tearing down capitalism and you're always wanting to do things that move closer to that end-point.
Also you don't try to split left in the left-most relevant party while the right-most relevant party is in power. You pull left, you consolidate power, THEN you split left if you need to. Why would you try and factionalise a minor party anyways? You factionalise major parties once you've secured enough power that you still have significant power after you do it you sillies.
I think the phrase yer replying to refutes what you said pretty handily
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Dec 31, 2016 12:23
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- Adbot
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ADBOT LOVES YOU
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May 2, 2024 08:58
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- The Peccadillo
- Mar 4, 2013
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We Have Important Work To Do
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It seems like a class action waiting to happen. I assume Centrelink are exempted from whatever laws there are against sending fake invoices?
Yeah, ton of dudes collecting complaints to throw back
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Dec 31, 2016 12:28
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Dec 30, 2016 07:39
