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Usually dumbass quasi whiteboy cishet leftists get mad about identity politics because they "distract from the class struggle." But do they ever address the racism, LGBTphobia, and sexism? No, because that has nothing to do with their identity.
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Dec 3, 2016 20:29
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Torpor posted:All talk of 'privilege' is just a total political non-seller. Academically, sure, but if you are not going to really motivate people you accuse of being "privileged". Very few people are going to look in the mirror at the horror show of their life and say, "yeah I am privileged. I'm voting for the party that appears to be accusing me of it!" I forgot that check your privilege was phrase uttered outside of tumblr. it's not amigo
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Dec 3, 2016 20:39
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Torpor posted:Also attempting to 'fight racism' by referring to huge populations of people exclusively by their skin color and acting as though they are all the same is just not a good plan. I agree, Trump was right, some Mexicans are good people!  e: Cugel the Clever posted:Guys, take a breath. Literally no one in this thread is saying that gender equality, racial equality, or LGBT issues aren't essential to the future we want to build. I can sympathize with your fear and frustration. There remain huge segments of American society that would deny you your right to exist, but the majority of people on these forums and in the broader left have your back. Can we not slap labels on other posters to invalidate their concerns? I am very afraid for my nonwhite noncishet nonChristian friends, yes, since the prevailing attitude seems to be, "economic anxiety made us lose, better appeal better to whites again." I am gonna call out when people are being poor allies, because yeah human rights are at loving stake. stone cold fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Dec 3, 2016 |
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Dec 3, 2016 20:41
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:keep in mind these are the same people who would throw poor lgbt/minorities under the bus simply because they're sex workers Please keep strawmanning me. 
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Dec 3, 2016 20:44
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UV_Catastrophe posted:Appealing to working class whites through a stronger stance on economic issues doesn't detract from fighting for the rights of minorities, though. Really? Because the lady who wanted to uplift them lost to the man who thinks wages are too high and we just need to kick out all the browns.
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Dec 3, 2016 20:49
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Neurolimal posted:They actually do. Really, Really often. Because they're accused of exactly this. Really, Really often. If we're bringing anecdotes to the table, then being told by people like you that dismantling patriarchal values and racism will occur after we smash the capitalists, and having any and all concerns dismissed about POC and noncis nonmen voices being drowned out as identity politics nicely negates out your +1 gay socialist.
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Dec 3, 2016 21:03
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Neurolimal posted:Nobody has said that either needs to supercede the other. That's the entire point here; social leftists are trying to exclude fiscal leftists from the fight by reading tea leaves and divinating word usage to uncover a hidden plot to abandon social leftists because that happened before 50+ years ago. I can hold social leftist and fiscal leftist positions without having to deal with leftboiis telling me to shut my whore mouth. Small wonder I don't want to engage so-called "fiscal leftists." Also, lol at whatever your abandonment complex is.
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Dec 3, 2016 21:19
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Torpor posted:Did you quote the wrong person? It is like you just responded to something he didn't say and are complaining about people tell you to shut up and nobody really did that. If you don't want to engage stop posting? I am saying that by so called "fiscal leftists" in my life I have been told to shut my whore mouth, and that I can hold fiscally left values without being one of those toxic idiots. I'm sorry for being unclear, you pedantic wantwit.
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Dec 3, 2016 21:29
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Torpor posted:Oh, okay. It is like you are attempting to show that identity politics is toxic. Well, white cishetboii politics is, and I guess that's an identity, so
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Dec 3, 2016 21:56
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Neurolimal posted:Are you interested in discussing problems within the democratic party and pertaining to identity politics, or are you going to just keep rallying against fiscally left policies and throwing out zero-effort barbs. How exactly does pointing out the problems that need to be addressed in the so-called "fiscal left" equate as rallying against fiscal left policies?
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Dec 3, 2016 22:05
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Neurolimal posted:We're discussing identity politics, its future, and its problems. I don't understand your bizarre obsession with attacking a candidate that displayed this during the primaries via non-sequiturs that contribute nothing to the conversation. You are the one who keeps relitigating it.
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Dec 3, 2016 22:24
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Extra, extra! Man convinced that identity politics are the enemy of the left denies minorities agency, read all about it!
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Dec 3, 2016 22:37
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Torpor posted:All of the college campus identity politics is just horrible poo poo explicitly designed to exclude people. To the extent that any of it is mirrored in broader politics it is a complete mistake. Why can't minorities shut the hell up and join us in the class war?  Let me denigrate their struggles as college campus nonsense though. Go join the Republican Party, you piece of poo poo.
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Dec 3, 2016 22:44
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Neurolimal posted:How am I denying minority agency? If someone has proven through decades that they care about my issues more than the average politician, of course I'm going to hold some loyalty to them over any new figure arguing for nice things. Am I denying myself agency? In your view, minorities are incapable of making conscious choices and voting for the candidate they like best, instead only voting for the candidate they feel beholden to. Good job!
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Dec 3, 2016 22:45
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Torpor posted:You are so irrationally angry that you have rendered yourself illiterate and retarded. Man who hates minorities, LGBTQ, and women also hate disabled and mentally challenged people.
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Dec 3, 2016 23:23
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Neurolimal posted:The vast majority of 18-30 democrats are in favor of fiscal and social leftism. This stretches across all minority demographics. I'm glad you, a white gay cisman, speak for all minorities. gently caress yourself sideways.
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Dec 3, 2016 23:26
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Cugel the Clever posted:What thread have you been reading? We've stated again and again that we can fight for the two goals simultaneously, hell, that we even need to do so as they go hand in hand, only to be told by you, Five, and stone cold that we are secretly conspiring against the movement toward social justice. You're projecting. lol five is a white gay person. Just because one goes "I'm a gay socialist" does not make them the spokesperson for gay people. Also glad you only care about white gay men, not all white LGBT, once again betraying your priorities. E: accidental double quote
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Dec 4, 2016 01:41
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Tiberius Christ posted:The only other people in america who act this morally superior are evangelicals. The dumb poo poo you spew doesn't convince anyone, it's just you getting high off of your own smug righteousness. I think most posters in this thread believe identity politics and fiscal policy are both social goods worth fighting for, but you are poison to progressivism. Please tell me more about how I am poison to progressivism for supporting basic income and human rights for all, not just poor whites. The only ones smugging it up in here are the "no war but class war" marxoteens. Cugel the Clever posted:Your persecution complex is showing. Stop projecting your own ill-will onto others. You go ahead and keep helping the "economically anxious" murder the Vincent Chins of America, pig.
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Dec 4, 2016 01:59
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Crowsbeak posted:She should not say if. They should be broken up. Period. Also why not instead say I'll do it and support everyone when you are denied equal pay. When they say your lifestyle prevents them from renting to you. When they say your gender means they cannot provide your health. Certainly the woman who wants to raise wages, agitated for UHC, spied on Arkansas schools that were resegregating, ensured disabled kids could get an education, and made it so that Transgender people could get federal documentation with their preferred gender is an evil alt-right hag, we should've supported the man in hock to the big banks! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 4, 2016 02:17
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Confounding Factor posted:All one has to do is see your colorful rap sheet history that proves I'm right. Do you really think insulting other liberals is the appropriate tact to get your views across and spur one to critically think about them? Or is it you don't really care but enjoy belittling others while feeling you are intellectually superior? I agree, it's better to be polite to bigots than dare to disagree with them.
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Dec 4, 2016 03:00
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My favorite part here is also the nasty gendered dimension as well, as if to imply the true villains are lesbians. Glad that if I settle down and want to marry a woman in the future it'll be because I'm a bougie bitch, not out of love and the many benefits marriage afford like adopting kids together or being able to see her in the loving hospital. Please tell me more about how to run my life, you breeding man-garbage!
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Dec 4, 2016 07:08
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Woozy posted:My argument is very explicitly that LGBT are distributed across a number of different classes. On the hand, there's a class that is reduced to begging their friends and family for financial assistance, often unsuccessfully, in order to receive medical treatments that might go some way towards preventing the kind of suicide you cynically invoke in your defense of economic exploitation, and on another is a class who prattles on about "lived experience" from the comfort of their Manhattan apartments. Please stop using the most marginalized of the most marginalized as your whacksticks. Also what a stunner that you bring up class, and not say, how issues of race affect LGBTQ people, almost like you know loving dogshit! Ah yes, and you definitely can tell me exactly how difficult the poor LGBTQ experience is. You definitely have worked and advocated and interacted with members of say, homeless LGBTQ minorities! Oh wait, no you can't because you haven't lived it, middle class white breeder fuccboi.
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Dec 4, 2016 07:18
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Neurolimal posted:You're not wrong to feel that way; Human Rights Campaign (most notable for taking credit for local pride events they had nothing to do with and making people add red squares to their facebook) have always been low-key about trans rights, and have as late as the SC ruling been trying to shoo away trans allied protesters. Human Rights Campaign, noted for hating trans, had a, uh, trans woman speak for them at the DNC? gently caress you muchly.
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Dec 4, 2016 07:56
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Woozy posted:What the gently caress are you talking about? At worst, liberal capitalism has historically been no better than communism on acceptance of LGBT people, and in fact where Western nations have progressed culturally on this question beyond their left counterparts, such development is almost always wielded rhetorically in defense of murder, atrocity, and imperialism, as you now do--see Israel's pathetic invocation of this argument in defense of their own barbarity or the now fashionable line on Castro among American liberals. Arguments to the contrary generally trade in the kind of glib de-contextualization of world history that informs moral panic over the Soviet prison system or any other "human rights" abuses laid at the feet of left political ideology. So yes, repeating bourgeois lies and Nazi propaganda about the Soviets to score points in defense of elite domination of LGBT politics definitely amounts to anti-communism. Human rights for LGBTQ people: used for murder. Got it, I'll just keep my uppity mouth shut, breeder!
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Dec 4, 2016 08:44
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Neurolimal posted:I don't hate the mentally ill. I am mentally ill. That doesn't mean we can just ignore the actions of the powerful who hold untreated sicknesses that make them value an extra unused million dollars over helping other human beings. Welp, discrimination is a tool, best keep revoking the civil and human rights of everybody who's not a white man! Also, yeah bigotry isn't in the DSM because bigots are culpable for their actions. Last I checked, gaybashers and hate crimes don't get off for being mentally ill, rear end in a top hat.
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Dec 4, 2016 19:45
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Neurolimal posted:Who are you virtue signaling towards?  You know as much as you've been kvetching at eff to "GB24CHAN!!1!1" you sure have adopted some alt right terminology! Hmm let's see, unironically uses the phrase virtue signal, and gives whites a pass, while telling poor minorities to gently caress off because rust belt whites feel fragile, have you perhaps considered that you might want to go back to your alt-right hate-hole?
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Dec 4, 2016 20:02
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Neurolimal posted:Actually, its bad to confirm alt-right suspicions of tribal mentality by rabidly defending any and all expressions of outrage no matter how unjustified. If we become terrified of self-reflection and using appropriate words then the Alt-Right have already won. The AR are capable of saying LGBT without hissing and dissolving into flames, are we weaker than the AR? I too agree that pointing out bigotry is a worthless exercise and all minorities should lick the boots of their rich white cishet masters! Yep. Also, y'all certainly haven't exhibited a tribal mentality when it comes to defending bigoted whites at all, nope! 
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Dec 4, 2016 20:38
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Neurolimal posted:It's worthless when you aren't pointing out bigotry, just blatantly misreading posts so you can accuse anyone you disagree with of bigotry. You aren't combatting bigotry, just telling everyone how much you, stone cold, hate bigotry. I'm glad that the premise that "idpol is only good when we think about "Midwest white feefees," isn't worth disagreeing with in your view, keep being you, you stormfronter! Maybe I'm trying to get all this bigotry out because a. I don't like being hated for my gender, creed, race, sexuality, whether of not I'm an immigrant, but no I must just being try to score woke points. Can't be because I'm sick enough of seeing hate in my own life, must be because I'm some champagne booj dumbass! If you save up enough dead comedy forums woke points, do you get a toaster or an MP3 player? Also @nevvy z, there literally isn't an ironicat big enough!
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Dec 4, 2016 20:49
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Neurolimal posted:...does ACT UP often accidentally read "we shouldn't give up on fighting for equality" as "we should totally give up on fighting for equality" and start screaming insults? Neurolimal posted:Actually, its bad to confirm alt-right suspicions of tribal mentality by rabidly defending any and all expressions of outrage no matter how unjustified. If we become terrified of self-reflection and using appropriate words then the Alt-Right have already won. The AR are capable of saying LGBT without hissing and dissolving into flames, are we weaker than the AR? Outrage is how the powerful majority suppressing genuine minority concerns and anger, see editorial cartoons and white opinions about MLK Jr. at the time. But you're right, wouldn't want to confirm altright suspicions about caring about minorities, so you just keep loving that chicken! E: if your idea of being a good ally is to tell minorities that their fears and concerns are stupid and they just need to tough it out and we should feel worse for "economically anxious whites" then you can get the hell out stone cold fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Dec 4, 2016 |
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Dec 4, 2016 20:53
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Neurolimal posted:Stone cold did this, to which you then jumped to their defense because you saw the word 'virtue signaling' in an environment appropriate for its use. Now you're trying to back out while also accusing me of lying, which is....something. Let me use a whole bunch of dumb words so it doesn't look like I'm dogwhistling and abandoning minorities!
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Dec 4, 2016 21:01
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LunarShadow posted:Just gonna leave this here cause y'all are loving up the usage of virtue signalling as it was originally coined, and using the alt-right corruption of the original term. It mainly focuses on the alt-right/MRA use of the word, the relevant bit is about a minute in. Aw man, y'all hosed up! human being originally meant bundle of sticks, you're just using the corruption! A chink is a flaw, y'all! Dyke means dam, c'mon! Thanks for the help, dumbass!
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Dec 4, 2016 21:05
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Neurolimal posted:Please point out where I have dogwhistled. Use quotations and bolding of my posts if you must. Just explain how they are. Calling legitimate minority anger "outrage" is a dogwhistle as I have already pointed out, whiteboii.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:06
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LunarShadow posted:I agree with you and was calling out Neuroliminal on his bullshit, though I seem to have hosed that up myself. My point was mostly that word has been thoroughly corrupted by the alt-right, and another main point of that video was that even if it is virtue signalling it doesn't mean the person is wrong. Basically, who cares if someone sticking up for minorities is virtue-signaling, it doesn't make them wrong that somebody is a racist/sexist/transphobic fuckstick. So my sincerest apologies for not making that clearer. Oh, that is my bad for genuinely misunderstanding your point. Thank you! Also, as opposed to my "misunderstanding" neurolimal because girlies like me don't read too good unless it's recipes.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:15
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Neurolimal posted:that's great, cool, whatever you want to use to ignore Hillary losing hundreds of thousands of midwestern dems that turned out for Obama. Certainly the suppression and apathy tactics couldn't have had anything to do with this. Or perhaps they weren't "economic anxious" enough?
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Dec 4, 2016 21:48
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Neurolimal posted:Welcome back. Would you like to point out what posts I was dogwhistling in? I'm sorry for holding you to this but its rather unfair to just disappear when arguing gets hard then returning for a different topic later, especially when your opponent is talking to multiple people. I pointed out your dogwhistles earlier, but sorry racism rendered you unable to read. Or perhaps being unthroned as the spokesperson for all LGBTQ people startled your monocle off so you couldn't read?
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Dec 4, 2016 22:02
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Woozy posted:Either grow up, bow out, or admit you don't have anything to say. Your rapidfire shitposting is sustained entirely by cheap invective, which as a moron you obviously come by honestly but I can promise you this marathon of bullshit is a weak rhetorical strategy and its the biggest reason I don't lose any sleep over your brand of vacuous politics, trendy though it may be. I don't know what pathetic off-site you're retreating to for high fives in between probations but I think at this point you can safely report to your handlers that you've fought the good fight on the comedy forum. I too think the person who DOESN'T hate minorities with a bloodlust like yours, Woozy, is the Stormfronter.
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Dec 4, 2016 22:07
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Woozy posted:Oh no! The lovely, dumber version of Effectronica has accused me of bloodlust. This is like kryptonite for me. I am okay with being deemed a dumb eff for my 'posting crimes.' Did you know that 'racism' and 'bigotry' aren't posting crimes, but 'hurting white feelings' is?
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Dec 4, 2016 22:15
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Neurolimal posted:D&D needs to drain the swamp of established gimmick posters. Make Debating Great Again. You first, trump-garbage. Glad your gambit has peeled away, you can go back to the Daily Stormer and talk about your sick owns on "minorities" now.
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Dec 4, 2016 22:22
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Business Gorillas posted:lol the same 4 people have been bouncing back and forth for 3 pages Don't you have more women to harass on dating sites, bernout?
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Dec 4, 2016 22:40
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vintagepurple posted:stone cold answers thread title I very much doubt that you care about housing discrimination, getting the homeless off the streets, support for trans youths, particularly POC trans youths, and genuine advocacy. Please continue to use ACTUAL REAL SUFFERING PEOPLE as rhetoric, you fuckstick.
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Dec 4, 2016 22:50
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