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This authoritarian social conservative smells blood. "How Trump's DOJ can start enforcing federal marijuana law." http://dailysignal.com/2017/02/27/how-trumps-doj-can-start-enforcing-federal-marijuana-law/
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Feb 28, 2017 04:14
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Georgia has bills in progress to expand their MMJ program, and change possession of two ounces or less from a *felony* to a misdemeanor, which is mindblowing given that even Texas is looking to move minor possession to a civil fine: http://www.thecannabist.co/2017/02/28/georgia-marijuana-possession-misdemeanor-medical-conditions/74515/
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Feb 28, 2017 20:19
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I hope this goes somewhere! Introduced by a Republican from Virginia! https://tomgarrett.house.gov/media/press-releases/garrett-introduces-legislation-remove-marijuana-controlled-substances-list quote:GARRETT INTRODUCES LEGISLATION TO REMOVE MARIJUANA FROM CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES LIST
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Feb 28, 2017 23:07
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It sucks that even if that passes congress it has to get by trump
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Feb 28, 2017 23:57
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Google Butt posted:It sucks that even if that passes congress it has to get by trump With all due awareness of "LOL nothing matters", this doesn't seem to be anything that Trump has a big personal stake in, vetoing it would be pretty contentious and risk undermining a portion of his base, etc. On a more cynical level, if handed to him on a silver platter I think he'd *love* to be able to crow that only he could finally end the Drug War, resolve the disparities between state and federal laws, etc. It would take very little effort for him to spin this as a huge *personal* accomplishment even if all he does is sign off on it. Again this is Trump and who knows, but I honestly think he would take a further hit to his popularity if Sessions gets even slightly aggressive on weed as is being threatened. There's plenty of right-wingers, alt-right kids, old folks, rurals, etc. who are vaguely positive about weed, increasingly so every year.
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Mar 1, 2017 00:09
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Google Butt posted:It sucks that even if that passes congress it has to get by trump Well, even if it did get past Trump, you still need a bunch of states to separately legalize weed. It would make weed sales in states that already legalized safe, but it does nothing for you if you're in a state that's hardcore against weed at the state level. They could continue to make it illegal to buy, sell, and grow it.
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Mar 1, 2017 00:13
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fishmech posted:Well, even if it did get past Trump, you still need a bunch of states to separately legalize weed. It would make weed sales in states that already legalized safe, but it does nothing for you if you're in a state that's hardcore against weed at the state level. They could continue to make it illegal to buy, sell, and grow it. it keeps you out of federal prison
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Mar 1, 2017 00:21
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:With all due awareness of "LOL nothing matters", this doesn't seem to be anything that Trump has a big personal stake in, vetoing it would be pretty contentious and risk undermining a portion of his base, etc. I agree. I just don't think Trump's opinion matters at all. Sessions hates weed. Bannon and Sessions are a team. Bannon tells Trump what to do. Therefore I'm pretty drat sure Trump would veto any progressive cannabis legislation.
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Mar 1, 2017 00:26
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the black husserl posted:I agree. I just don't think Trump's opinion matters at all. It is still progress though. Can congress submit and pass the same bill over and over again?
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Mar 1, 2017 00:29
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Google Butt posted:it keeps you out of federal prison You already don't go to federal prison for simple possession, you get abused by local cops and thrown in state prison instead. Hell, it's rare to get federal charges instead of state charges even for fairly big time dealers. We have 12,000 people in federal prison for crimes related to marijuana, which is bad. But we have nearly 650,000 people getting arrested yearly for marijuana related charges, and that's almost entirely state/local enforcement at work.
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Mar 1, 2017 00:42
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Keith Humphries (one of Kleiman's buddies) is in the Washington Post claming that mass incarceration has nothing to do with unjust drug laws: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/02/08/what-we-get-wrong-about-mass-imprisonment-in-america quote:The white rate of being sentenced for drug crimes (15 percent) is actually slightly higher than that for blacks (14.9 percent) and Hispanics (14.6 percent) See? No racial disparities, move along please, nothing to see here.
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Mar 1, 2017 00:50
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Yeah the number of people in prison for simple marijuana possession is like, a very low percentage and legalization will do very little to address the mass incarceration problem. I mean, if you're intentionally conflating marijuana possession and cross-border cocaine trafficking or whatever, okay, but that's not really relevant here.
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Mar 1, 2017 01:00
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fishmech posted:You already don't go to federal prison for simple possession, you get abused by local cops and thrown in state prison instead. Hell, it's rare to get federal charges instead of state charges even for fairly big time dealers. Reducing that number by 12,000 is huge. Not to mention you can't legally own a firearm and be a user of marijuna as long as it's scheduled.
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Mar 1, 2017 01:05
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Also, in the other direction, it's not really fair to compare federal prisoners to those arrested in states - you should be comparing the 12,000 to the number of people in state prison for marijuana. Arrests are not all indictments let alone convictions, and convictions are not all incarcerations either.
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Mar 1, 2017 01:09
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Yeah the number of people in prison for simple marijuana possession is like, a very low percentage and legalization will do very little to address the mass incarceration problem. I mean, if you're intentionally conflating marijuana possession and cross-border cocaine trafficking or whatever, okay, but that's not really relevant here. People who have a misdemeanor conviction for weed possession, even if they did no hard time, have their job and life prospects curtailed and have less incentive to not get involved in other crimes. Giving them a ticket instead just means they're annoyed and out a couple hundred bucks, but don't spend the rest of their life labeled a criminal. "Guys, but almost nobody is in jail just for weed!" is one of those SAM red herrings to avoid discussing how marijuana charges negatively impact peoples' lives and careers.
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Mar 1, 2017 01:11
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:People who have a misdemeanor conviction for weed possession, even if they did no hard time, have their job and life prospects curtailed and have less incentive to not get involved in other crimes. Giving them a ticket instead just means they're annoyed and out a couple hundred bucks, but don't spend the rest of their life labeled a criminal.
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Mar 1, 2017 01:12
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fishmech posted:Well, even if it did get past Trump, you still need a bunch of states to separately legalize weed. It would make weed sales in states that already legalized safe, but it does nothing for you if you're in a state that's hardcore against weed at the state level. They could continue to make it illegal to buy, sell, and grow it. It would remove uncertainty about whether the feds will crack down on state lawmakers or administrators. It would remove a major argument against states legalizing. The result of both of these things would likely hasten legalization. Yes, conservative states would resist and might resist for decades. However, There are many states that are close already and just need a little nudge.
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Mar 1, 2017 01:16
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Google Butt posted:Reducing that number by 12,000 is huge. Not to mention you can't legally own a firearm and be a user of marijuna as long as it's scheduled. It wouldn't though. Legalizing weed doesn't even guarentee you get out of jail if your only crime was weed-based, and a lot of those people in federal prison for crimes related to weed committed a whole bunch of other crimes and crimes related to other drugs as well. Keep in mind we have those 650,000 people getting arrested a year for weed even with many states with outright legalization, and many more states with heavy decriminalization. And not being allowed to own a gun isn't a problem in the first place.
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Mar 1, 2017 01:38
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If federal prohibition comes down, then more states will legalize, and any state legalizing cannabis undermines prohibition in neighboring states. When California/Maine/Massachusetts/Nevada all have legal markets in 2018 it will significantly undermine national prohibition in a direct and indirect way: First, the weed from those states IS going to flow to prohibitive states -- something which will drive down prices in the illegal markets. Second, just by having legal marijuana available in a state as that state continues to be otherwise normal without spikes in the bad things that drug warriors scare monger about severely undermines prohibition and makes prohibitive states question their policies. We're in a weird limbo state right now as we wait for those states that legalized to work out their regulatory structures but once they're all up and running I believe marijuana advocates will be in a better position rhetorically and the Jeff Sessions of America will look even more silly.
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Mar 1, 2017 01:40
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quote:And not being allowed to own a gun isn't a problem in the first place. Says you; lots of folks would disagree. I went to check out SA's favorite bastion of cranky conservative, Free Republic, and they're split pretty much down the middle re Session's threats. You have about half of them doing the "good, pot makes people stupid liberals" or "you can't pick-and-choose what laws you enforce", but a bunch saying it's Big Government overreach, an offense against states rights, or just plain dumb and a waste of time and political capital: http://freerepublic.com/tag/marijuana/index?tab=articles One argument that I've seen pop up on Freep a lot, and in real-life conversations, is people arguing "most alcohol users drink very moderately, but *every* pot user is just looking to get high as a kite, every single time". I don't know if that's just a Hollywood portrayal, or some confirmation bias where they ignore the dozens of people they know who have an occasional joint and just envision their one burnout friend doing massive bong-rips on his couch all day. When I think of "daily marijuana user" I think of people who pinch off a joint so they can come back and smoke the rest a few hours later (something I almost never see cigarette smokers do), and pretty much every time I've seen someone get totally stumbling-baked is someone who's already ensconced at someone's house for the night and has no need to by going anywhere or do anything important anytime soon. As opposed to alcohol where I've seen deadbeats drink on the corner until they vomit, and have seen plenty of even respectable employed folks stumbling around in broad daylight on a non-work day (DC loves brunch), much less on a Friday night downtown. EDIT: here's a Freep example: quote:Alcohol is easily abused and a lot of people do get sh!+ faced drunk every day. But that is a tiny minority compared to the millions that may have an occasional drink weekly or even daily. Have a few and then they stop. Most just want to take the edge off. Getting sh!+ faced has not happened to them since college. Alcohol is a drug that can be used responsibly. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Mar 1, 2017 |
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Mar 1, 2017 01:48
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There are a shitload of good people who are gun owners, sucks that they have to give up their second amendment right or become a felon if they get cancer and find relief from marijuana.
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Mar 1, 2017 01:52
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What's moderate drinking, one or two standard drinks? As a teetotaller one standard drink would definitely put me in a drug affected state. I suspect the people claiming that not all drinkers drink to get drunk already have a tolerance and just don't realise. Why they believe that regular cannabis users don't develop a tolerance is beyond me.
KingEup fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Mar 1, 2017 |
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Mar 1, 2017 02:27
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KingEup posted:What's moderate drinking, one or two standard drinks? As a teetotaller one standard drink would definitely put me in a drug affected state. I suspect the people claiming that not all drinkers drink to get drunk already have a tolerance and just don't realise. Why they believe that regular cannabis users don't develop a tolerance is beyond me. I've seen folks like this literally insist that "a couple drinks" has zero psychoactive effect, while still using phrases like "to wind down", "to take the edge off" that pretty clearly point to achieving a desired drug effect. Dude, if it had "zero" effect they'd be drinking apple juice, clearly alcohol in any appreciable quantity has some effect. I would imagine their viewpoint is affiliated with the argument "I'm not vomiting or making GBS threads myself and can generally stand erect, I must be totally fine to drive home!"
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Mar 1, 2017 02:38
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Yeah, there seems to be a belief that being drunk is an either or state with no regard for the fact that there is a continuum of intoxication.TapTheForwardAssist posted:"I'm not vomiting or making GBS threads myself and can generally stand erect" Which of course are definitely not signs of overdose. KingEup fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Mar 1, 2017 |
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Mar 1, 2017 02:49
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The latest poo poo from the WH has Guam severely curtailing its proposed bill, as it doesn't want to be in the crosshairs, since it depends on federal spending to a large degree. It's likely to lose the provision that would have removed it from Sch. I, and we'll see what else gets axed.
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Mar 1, 2017 07:34
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Uhh...okay? That still doesn't make weed legalization a solution for mass incarceration. I wasn't trying to make any greater point than that. Mass incarceration is the kind of problem that won't have a singular solution. It's the product of lots of little problems stacking up, and likewise we'll have to take the whole edifice down brick by brick. I just hope we can transition some of the legalization energy into a broader push for harm reduction rather than criminalization in our approach to other banned substances.
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Mar 1, 2017 08:27
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Yeah the number of people in prison for simple marijuana possession is like, a very low percentage and legalization will do very little to address the mass incarceration problem. One: legalization would keep more people out of jail than the ones in for simple possession, because it would legalize more than possession. Obviously. Two: legalization would remove many perverse incentives - both for enforcement and for users - that lead to more crimes being committed and existing crimes being more aggressively enforced. Not being a fundraiser for the PD would be big. Three: It opens the doors for further reforms.
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Mar 1, 2017 14:18
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GlyphGryph posted:You have like... three or four levels of bullshit going on here. There are lots of reasons to legalize marijuana, but a way to address mass incarceration it is not. Do we still have a prison thread? This discussion is probably better suited there honestly.
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Mar 1, 2017 16:37
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:These are all weasel-y and not concrete. "It opens the door to further reforms" could be said about any change to any law. I love my boy brad and all but I don't think he's going to become a legitimate marijuana storefront owner just because it's legal now - three guesses as to what he actually does. BJS states that at most 15% of prisoners are in state prison for drugs, and that's every crime involving every drug, so marijuana is going to only be a fraction of that. For federal it's a higher percentage, but federal prison is like, a weird special case and rather small compared to the number of folks in state prison. How many of those people agreed to plead guilty, to a drug charge in exchange for having other charges dropped? Future folks in that position will plead down to something else instead. This is kind of like saying mandating the installation of seatbelts was not a way to address automobile fatalities. Was putting in seatbelts enough to eliminate fatalities completely? No. Neither were laws mandating their use. Nor airbags nor carseats for children, or drunk driving laws, or drivers ed classes in highschool, or increases in the minimum age requirements for a license. However all these changes taken together have led to massive increases in driver safety. There is not and cannot be a singular solution to a complex problem like mass incarceration, and it is silly to look for a silver bullet. Recognize the small victories, just don't forget the ultimate objective. Even a just few percent of prisoners saved and a few months off the average sentence is progress.
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Mar 1, 2017 20:42
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:These are all weasel-y and not concrete. "It opens the door to further reforms" could be said about any change to any law. I love my boy brad and all but I don't think he's going to become a legitimate marijuana storefront owner just because it's legal now - three guesses as to what he actually does. BJS states that at most 15% of prisoners are in state prison for drugs, and that's every crime involving every drug, so marijuana is going to only be a fraction of that. For federal it's a higher percentage, but federal prison is like, a weird special case and rather small compared to the number of folks in state prison. How many of those people agreed to plead guilty, to a drug charge in exchange for having other charges dropped? Future folks in that position will plead down to something else instead. A question i've never seen answered is how many people started their criminal life with a drug conviction. We have horrible recidivism rates in part because, unless you are able to expunge your record, your employment options are restricted forever. It's not just about who is currently incarcerated for drug crimes, but who would have lived a normal life if their opportunities weren't taken away from them.
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Mar 1, 2017 21:12
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Those who say "people don't go to jail for simple possession" are totally blind to all the people who do go to jail for selling, or who do in fact go to jail for mere possession when prosecutors tack on a "intent to distribute" charge because of the quantity of weed in question. Regarding sending weed sellers to jail -- this should be held as much of an injustice as sending regular users to sale, because its prohibition that creates an underground market in which someone can make a (small) living. Legalize = no illegal market = no incentive to be an illegal weed dealer = fewer people in jail.
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Mar 1, 2017 21:56
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What a day! In the morning I read that the Sessions DOJ is sending threatening letters to the Cannabis Cup about their upcoming NV event, and then this evening I read that Sessions may have committed perjury at his confirmation hearing. Strange times.
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Mar 2, 2017 05:49
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Continuing to work the cannabis lobbying issue in Austin, though I'm planning to leave TX (at least for now) at the end of the month. There's at least some chance of reform to Texas' very limited MMJ program this session, but probably a better chance that possession will be lowered to a civil fine for an ounce or less. Similar good news in New Mexico, where there's legislation proposed to lower possession of a half-ounce or less from a jailable misdemeanor down to a $50 fine: http://www.thecannabist.co/2017/03/03/south-dakota-cbd-oil-fda-approval/74832/ And meanwhile I'm still just waiting for Rhode Island to just legalize it already, they're edging worse than Vermont the last few years. EDIT: and South Dakota is trying to pass a bill that would legalize CBD as long as the FDA regulates the product: http://www.thecannabist.co/2017/03/03/south-dakota-cbd-oil-fda-approval/74832/ TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Mar 4, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 23:59
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Aging Millenial posted:When California/Maine/Massachusetts/Nevada all have legal markets in 2018 If Mass gets legal markets by 2018 I will eat my hat. The government here seems dead opposed to legalizing it, down to trying to delay legalization for a year and a half.
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Mar 4, 2017 00:07
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Google Butt posted:It is still progress though. Can congress submit and pass the same bill over and over again? Nah, the GOP could only try and repeal Obamacare once.
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Mar 4, 2017 01:56
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Pollyanna posted:If Mass gets legal markets by 2018 I will eat my hat. The government here seems dead opposed to legalizing it, down to trying to delay legalization for a year and a half. It was written into the ballot measure itself that stores could only open in 2018. The legislature extended that by six months. I followed the Mass legalization pretty closely and their government has been quite hostile to the measure (from a puritan angle). I think they will get stores running in 2018 but I'm afraid that the legislature might ban concentrates and edibles and severely restrict home grows. This was the most hilarious part of the Massachusetts legalization process: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oycBIQ_aT78 Pot dystopia! Aging Millenial fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Mar 4, 2017 |
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Mar 4, 2017 02:03
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Israel's Cabinet voted today to decriminalize public personal possession/use of cannabis, with only civil fines unless you commit a fourth repeated offense. Still needs to be signed off on in the Knesset to become official: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/05/world/middleeast/israel-marijuana-benjamin-netanyahu.html?_r=0 EDIT: West Virginia is, yet again, pushing for Medical cannabis, I think they've tried this every single year since 2010, let's see if it happens this time: http://www.journal-news.net/news/local-news/2017/03/medical-marijuana-proposed-for-state/ EDIT2: and Connecticut has multiple legalization bills bouncing around its legislature this year, including one sponsored by the senior Republican on Appropriations. Seriously, it's like loosening weed laws is just popping up constantly in every state and dozens of countries. I follow this poo poo as a hobby and I'm having a hard time keeping up even on just a perusal level: http://www.nhregister.com/government-and-politics/20170305/connecticut-lawmakers-to-hear-testimony-on-marijuana-legalization-bill TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Mar 6, 2017 |
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Mar 6, 2017 00:11
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Just a fun-fact I learned about Idaho today. I mentioned earlier in the thread that Idaho approved CBD-only in 2015 but Gov. Butch Otter vetoed it. Well, turns out that in 2013 the Idaho Legislature, both houses, took the time to pass a resolution saying "we will never legalize marijuana in Idaho". There wasn't even any push for a bill ongoing, they just preemptively out of the blue decided to announce to the state that they wouldn't ever legalize. Fun state. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/26/idaho-anti-marijuana-resolution_n_2766943.html EDIT2: the nominated incoming chief medical officer for Nebraska opposed allowing CBD oil because it has a "high potential for abuse": http://www.thecannabist.co/2017/03/07/nebraska-medical-marijuana-advocates-oppose-chief-medical-officer/75079/ EDIT: In better news, Ireland's MMJ program is being fast-tracked and could be operational as early as this autumn: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/medicinal-cannabis-programme-may-be-in-place-by-autumn-1.3001574 TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 05:27
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This is bizarre: I went to check to see if VT is getting any closer to legalizing finally, and apparently they're seriously considering a DC-style "legal but no sales" legislation where they'd allow home-growing but no stores. DC got stuck with that by Congress, but VT wants to actually make it a plan. Weird strategy, but apparently it placates some conservatives who don't want to see a "pot industry" or worry the Feds will crack down, so just going laissez-faire is easier. http://www.weednews.co/vermont-house-leaders-say-they-will-move-forward-with-marijuana-legalization-bill/
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Mar 9, 2017 07:47
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wrong thread
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Mar 9, 2017 07:58
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