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I searched this forum for a thread about romcoms using SA's built in search function and none turned up so if there is already a thread for them I'm sorry. But, assuming there isn't and acting on good faith here's a thread about romantic comedies and their sub genres. I never particularly liked romantic comedies. They are largely super formulaic and so once you've seen one you've basically seen them all. But for the past year and a half three friends and I have been getting together once a month to watch a romantic comedy or two. We sometimes do stuff like play a drinking game or make bingo cards. I've probably watched about 50ish of them? I was originally going to post this thread in Blockbuster Video but since I would actually seriously like some in depth discussion all about romantic comedies and all their sub genres (regardless of quality) it's probably better off here in the serious discussion forum. I'd specifically like to discuss about the messages in romcoms and their sub genres. Their effects on society (there's some interesting studies on their effects on perceptions of love and romance.) The influence of feminism on the genres and the genres influence on feminism, and whatever else you can contrive with even the flimsiest connection to romcoms and their sub genres. And just a heads up, I don't mind longish posts (especially if they're good) but do try to be reasonable. Some of the Romantic Comedies I've Seen (in no particular order): Romancing the Stone Pretty in Pink Mannequin The Princess Bride* Pretty Woman Breakfast at Tiffany's My Big Fat Greek Wedding The Awful Truth Sleepless in Seattle Does the version of Romeo and Juliet where they dress modern and use guns but all the dialog is straight from the play count because that movie is loving awesome.* Adam's Rib You've Got Mail^ She's All That Kate and Leopold* The one where Janeane Garofalo falls in love with an Irish guy because of a dog. 50 First Dates The 40 Year Old Virgin Is Mr and Mrs Smith a romantic comedy because holy gently caress it's the best.* There's more but that's long enough. *Indicates a movie that is good. ^Indicates a movie that I think is good but it's complicated. Even after watching so many I'm still not sure I like romantic comedies and their ilk but I've learned to appreciate them and there's definitely some diamonds in the rough. Tangentially related: I gave this thread the most appropriate thread icon available in this subforum but I'm open to suggestions. (Perhaps the Dad post icon from LP or the Feminism post icon from E/N (I think) would be better?) Jenner fucked around with this message at 11:32 on Jan 12, 2017 |
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Dec 4, 2016 11:15
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I really hate the poo poo out of Hitch for reasons that are hard to articulate. It's mostly a by the numbers "Cool dude and lady too cool for his being cool have a wacky misunderstanding and then hook up at the end" thing. The problem is that the protagonist is portrayed as a really nice person who is maybe 1% too smug for how cool, successful, and kind to others he is all movie. And his love interest is a total psychopath who destroys his life over a really dumb misunderstanding because she's an aggressively evil idiot. Yet he's the one who has to run and grovel to her at the end and I'm vomiting up my appendix again. It's like a white writer imagining the coolest Cool Black Guy they can, only to conclude that it must be destroyed with nuclear weapons.
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Dec 4, 2016 14:58
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Jenner posted:Does the version of Romeo and Juliet where they dress modern and use guns but all the dialog is straight from the play count because that movie is loving awesome.* I think by the traditional definition this would possibly be a tragedy
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Dec 4, 2016 15:12
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When Harry Met Sally is a masterpiece and one of the greatest screenplays ever written. If you haven't seen it you should OP.
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Dec 4, 2016 15:40
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Love Actually is such a wonderful film. The first time I watched it was in a Navy barracks in Great Lakes Naval Base, Michigan. It was maybe 20 degrees outside and there was nothing else to do. Me and four other young sailors sat in my barracks room crowded around a tiny TV with a built in VCR and watched the movie. We all made fun of it for the first several minutes, feeling insecure about watching a rom com together, but by the end, all of us were engrossed. I even cried a little at times. Since then, I've seen it five more times. I love it each time I watch it. My other favorite romantic comedy is Crazy, Stupid Love. Ryan Gosling and Steve Carell kill it. blue squares fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Dec 4, 2016 |
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Dec 4, 2016 16:04
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ElectricSheep posted:I think by the traditional definition this would possibly be a tragedy True enough. It is definitely not a romantic comedy. It still rules though. sean10mm posted:Hitch When my group watched Hitch we spent a long time wondering what was so bad about him. "Is he going to be a Nice Guy?" I asked. We knew women who would be fine with the level of jerk Hitch displayed. It never really objectionable, right? I didn't really like it either for pretty much the same reasons you mentioned. The fact that the woman is just so petty and spiteful really did not sit well with me. tanglewood1420 posted:When Harry Met Sally is a masterpiece and one of the greatest screenplays ever written. If you haven't seen it you should OP. It's on our list! We're going to watch City of Angels starring Nick Cage and Meg Ryan this month (:frogin:) and then it's my turn to pick the movie. I'll definitely post about both here. blue squares posted:Love Actually is such a wonderful film. When my friends propositioned me with the idea of romcoms and movies like them day I was hesitant but I gave it a shot. They got my feet wet with this movie and I love, love, loved it. At the time I was still of the opinion that romcoms were dumb and that this was going to be an MST 3K/Rifftracks kind of thing but no. And now that I've seen some good ones it actually makes the less good ones and bad ones better because I can compare them to Love Actually and really discuss why they are so bad. I'm really looking forward to City of Angels this month, I am expecting a "so bad it's good" experience. Don't spoil it! So oh man, can I talk about You've Got Mail? Because I liked it and thought it was good and I feel bad about it because maybe I shouldn't considering what happens in it? Good things about You've Got Mail: -First media depiction of online dating? -Features the original staticy howling scream of the early internet  (One of the crew is in her late 20s and asked, "What is that noise?" And we told her it was what the internet sounded like and felt so old.)-The people Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks' characters are dating in the movie are not complete monsters so much as just people they're not compatible with. (However, see bad things below.) -Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks' characters had genuine chemistry and their interactions were cute. Scratch that, they were adorable. Bad things: -Tom Hanks' character's not-Meg Ryan GF is "bad" because she's a working woman who is ambitious and focused on her career. lovely message. -Tom Hanks' character destroys Meg Ryan's character's way of life and supporting herself. Running a store that had been in her family for at least a generation out of business and devastating her. He has no regrets until he realizes she's the woman he's fallen in love with on the internet then he feels terrible. -Tom Hanks' character spends a lot of time trying to befriend Meg Ryan's character after learning who she is. Is it creepy? Manipulative? Not exactly and kinda (it's complicated.) But he's being genuine about it because he likes her. Aside, This is the thing in the movie I struggle with the most. Because guys who try to befriend girls because they like them in the dating sense and not because they just like them as people are one of the worst. These guys are really only your friends in the hopes that they can maneuver themselves into becoming your boyfriend. Their friendship is not genuine because they have ulterior motives and it is just poo poo. But Tom Hanks didn't come off as That Guy. He seemed to just want friendship with Meg Ryan because he liked her as a person (disclaimer, this is what it seemed like to me, one of the crew is not so sure about this.) Still... what did you guys think? Things I liked about this movie: -The usual romcom formula is meet -> fall in love -> a misunderstanding/disagreement and a break up -> a reconciling and a getting back together -> happily ever after. This movie kind of plays with the formula because they meet -> dislike each other because they are competitors -> meet in a different context and like each other as people -> don't so much have a misunderstanding or disagreement but rather Tom Hanks' character genuinely hurts Meg Ryan's character (it's not malicious, it's just business  ) -> The whole thing where Tom Hanks tries to befriend her happens -> Tom Hanks reveals his true identity to Meg Ryan and it's okay because she started to like him too. -> happily ever after.-Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks characters really seemed to like each other and they played off each other well. It was cute. This post is long, so long. I'm sorry. You've Got Mail is good and really complicated!
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Dec 4, 2016 20:24
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Also echoing that you definitely need to watch When Harry Met Sally and would also say you need to see Annie Hall unless you're morally opposed to watching a Woody Allen film. They're those rare creatures in being Rom Coms that actually understand the complications in being in a relationship and are actually genuinely funny where as mostly other Rom Coms seem to be written by people who I'm not sure have interacted with another human being yet alone been in a romantic relationship
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Dec 4, 2016 21:57
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I loving love Just Friends and I watch it every Christmas. Probably my favorite Ryan Reynolds movie besides Deadpool.
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Dec 4, 2016 22:16
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Shaun of the Dead is a pretty good rom-com, I reckon.
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Dec 4, 2016 22:44
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quote:The Princess Bride Uh, one of these things is not like the others............ one of these things does no~t belong
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Dec 4, 2016 22:59
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Can someone recommend to me some great romantic comedies from pre-1980? Preferably ones that also are great films (direction, editing, etc), but really just wonderful love stories make me happy. I plan to watch Harold and Maude, and I've seen Annie Hall, but I want to know more. I've seen all of the essential rom coms of the 80s and onward (because it is secretly my favorite genre), but not many of the ones earlier. Do people think Some Like it Hot counts? Maybe its the anti romantic comedy.
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Dec 4, 2016 23:23
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:Uh, one of these things is not like the others............ one of these things does no~t belong Wikipedia calls it a romantic fantasy adventure comedy, are you gonna argue with them?? I feel the same about Breakfast at Tiffany's though, it was far more depressing than I expected Anyway I thought Love, Actually was pretty gross
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Dec 4, 2016 23:24
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Looper posted:Anyway I thought Love, Actually was pretty gross Why?
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Dec 4, 2016 23:25
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Looper posted:Wikipedia calls it a romantic fantasy adventure comedy, are you gonna argue with them?? I feel the same about Breakfast at Tiffany's though, it was far more depressing than I expected Well it has romance and comedy in it but where's the.... oh.... when Buttercup thinks Wesley's dead is that the.... ohhhh.
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Dec 4, 2016 23:28
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I thought Friends with Benefits was surprisingly good. Yes, the Justin Timberlake one.
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Dec 4, 2016 23:43
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blue squares posted:Why? In trying to depict love as this beautiful universal experience, Love, Actually instead props the concept up on this impossibly high pedestal. I mean when the movie isn't talking about romantic love it does pretty well, such as the little kid and his dad or the office employee and her dependent brother, but then several of the relationships portrayed are between powerful men and their subordinates and I've never really been in the mood for those awkward gender politics. The fat woman who isn't fat at all (but we'll make tons of bad jokes about it regardless), the flirty secretary who felt like less of a character and more of a guilty power fantasy, and the housekeeper who is effectively silenced by the language barrier and is probably just a rebound anyway, were all pretty prominent and also not good subplots. There's also Bill Nighy and his manager but I liked them  (insert more fat jokes here)
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Dec 4, 2016 23:45
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:Uh, one of these things is not like the others............ one of these things does no~t belong Hey, if Annie Hall counts, so does The Princess Bride.
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Dec 5, 2016 02:40
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blue squares posted:Can someone recommend to me some great romantic comedies from pre-1980? Preferably ones that also are great films (direction, editing, etc), but really just wonderful love stories make me happy. I plan to watch Harold and Maude, and I've seen Annie Hall, but I want to know more. I've seen all of the essential rom coms of the 80s and onward (because it is secretly my favorite genre), but not many of the ones earlier. City Lights is a great movie and a great romantic comedy. It also has one of the best endings of all time.
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Dec 5, 2016 03:07
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blue squares posted:Can someone recommend to me some great romantic comedies from pre-1980? Preferably ones that also are great films (direction, editing, etc), but really just wonderful love stories make me happy. I plan to watch Harold and Maude, and I've seen Annie Hall, but I want to know more. I've seen all of the essential rom coms of the 80s and onward (because it is secretly my favorite genre), but not many of the ones earlier. Other essential classics are Trouble in Paradise and Ninotchka by Ernst Lubitsch, Sylvia Scarlett and The Philadelphia Story by George Cukor, The Lady Eve by Preston Sturges, It Happened One Night by Frank Capra, His Girl Friday by Howard Hawks, and the list goes on and on. Two of my favorite 70's romcoms are What's Up Doc? and The Heartbreak Kid. The best post-1990 romcom is Trust by Hal Hartley.
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Dec 5, 2016 03:07
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If you liked City of Angels, I highly suggest the better version of the story Wings of Desire. If you want to see an anti romantic comedy I suggest Fox and his Friends.
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Dec 5, 2016 03:11
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sean10mm posted:I really hate the poo poo out of Hitch for reasons that are hard to articulate. It's mostly a by the numbers "Cool dude and lady too cool for his being cool have a wacky misunderstanding and then hook up at the end" thing. It's less about tearing down the cool black guy than it is that the standard method of conflict in RomComs is the unreasonable actions of one or both of the halves of the focus couple. It's hard to write a funny script about two crazy kids falling in love without one or both of them being psychopaths apparently. This is also why so often the significant other of one or both parties in the love equation is either also totally irredeemable or is a saint who is broken up with for flabbergastingly stupid reasons. If the core conflict of the story isn't revolving around the wacky antics of these two people drawn together by cupid arrow, you've got to spend time and energy coming up with an actual conflict that brings them together. Most often a half assed conflict is devised to place the two characters on the board so they can duke it out battle chess style and at the end when they finally "really" get together we can just pretend it was a funny story about love. I haven't watched and remembered enough of the genre to be certain, by my feeling is that the woman in most of these movies is usually the, or at least the more, insane psychopath. Simply because if they cast a pretty enough lady in the part the audience is most likely to forgive a whole lot before they start wondering why the guy keeps chasing after her. In the case of Hitch, Eva Mendes is very pretty so the expectation is that we'll forgive a whole lot of her actions.
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Dec 5, 2016 17:18
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Similarly Will Smith is a babe so we can forgive him being a manipulative proto pickup artist
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Dec 5, 2016 20:31
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Looper posted:Similarly Will Smith is a babe so we can forgive him being a manipulative proto pickup artist I would agree except they really really really really make it insultingly clear that he is totally not a pick up artist to the point where he's unrealistically nice for a human in general. If they allowed him even a little bit of negativity then it might have made any sense for him to get ruined. But the whole thing is framed so the unfortunate implications of even the sanitized relationship manipulation thing he does don't exist, and only appear to exist to his love interest because she is a sadistic dope.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:54
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Looper posted:The fat woman who isn't fat at all (but we'll make tons of bad jokes about it regardless), I thought that sort of was the joke though? Like, this woman clearly isn't fat, and we're supposed to think that everyone who's making those jokes is being kind of an rear end in a top hat. IIRC the only person who pushes back against the fat comments is Hugh Grant himself who is obviously supposed to be sympathetic. ("owooowowooh, would we call her chubby?") While we're on the subject though I totally understand most of the criticisms about Love Actually (it is pretty freaking weird that there are not one, not two, but three separate romances between male bosses and their female employees) but I like it anyway and it's one of my Christmas staples. "I am Colin, god of sex."
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Dec 6, 2016 23:01
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:Well it has romance and comedy in it but where's the.... oh.... when Buttercup thinks Wesley's dead is that the.... ohhhh. This thread is about Romcoms and their sub genres (and probably also extends to talking about romcom influences in movies.) It's a broad brush but The Princess Bride falls under this umbrella. It really does have a lot of romcom elements. It's okay to like these things.  Samuel Clemens posted:Hey, if Annie Hall counts, so does The Princess Bride.  Purple Monkey posted:Also echoing that you definitely need to watch When Harry Met Sally and would also say you need to see Annie Hall unless you're morally opposed to watching a Woody Allen film. They're those rare creatures in being Rom Coms that actually understand the complications in being in a relationship and are actually genuinely funny where as mostly other Rom Coms seem to be written by people who I'm not sure have interacted with another human being yet alone been in a romantic relationship I really really really don't like Wood Allen. He is just a disgusting human being. But I don't want to derail this thread into talking about that. I will watch both these movies. HP Hovercraft posted:Some Like It Hot certainly counts, but be sure to check out other Billy Wilder like Sabrina, The Seven Year Itch, and the masterpiece The Apartment. You appear to know your stuff and none of these movies are on our list so I just added them. Thank you. However. quote:The best post-1990 romcom is Trust by Hal Hartley. You are incorrect because Mr. And Mrs. Smith exists.  This Friday is movie day! I'm so hyped to watch City of Angels! We've been discussing hosting a podcast about this thing we do monthly. I'll let you know if we go through with it.
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Dec 7, 2016 07:03
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Don't be confused by it containing Meg Ryan, patron saint of RomComs, City of Angels is not a romantic comedy, it is just a romance movie. Two people falling in love and a happy ending are the cornerstones of the genre, without it I don't think you have a romantic comedy. I'd also argue The Princess Bride isn't a romantic comedy, because the movie isn't about them falling in love, that's like a 10 second blurb at the beginning. Great movie, but definitely an adventure comedy, almost none of the time is spent with us watching them fall in love with each other.
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Dec 7, 2016 11:25
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Jenner posted:I really really really don't like Wood Allen. He is just a disgusting human being. But I don't want to derail this thread into talking about that. I will watch both these movies. That's why I added the unless you're morally opposed part. Not sure what to say about watching his films because Annie Hall and a couple of his other films really are absolute cornerstones of the genre and influenced most of the rom coms that followed them but I completely understand why you wouldn't want to watch one of his films.
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Dec 7, 2016 18:08
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Allen's best romantic comedy is probably The Purple Rose of Cairo, though it's a lot more dour than most entries in the genre. And speaking of post-90s rom-coms, how is She's Funny That Way?
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Dec 7, 2016 19:17
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I dig Morning Glory. It's fun and lighthearted and doesn't vilify Rachel McAdams for being a business lady who's good at her job.
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Dec 7, 2016 19:42
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Oh my gosh I'm so sorry it took me so long to come back to this thread I was busy being utterly terrible. City of Angels was really interesting. I was surprised by how sad it was. I was not expecting the sad SPCA Commercial song but I should have. I didn't like it but I didn't dislike it. It's my turn to pick the movie for next month. So it's When Harry Met Sally time. Were there remakes? Is there a version that is the best? Let me know. In another thread, where I waged a brief war over a general misunderstanding/misconception of consent and sexual assault that just seems ripe throughout our country, I had the realization that a lot of this is because of the conflicting messages society sends via media. (Primary culprits: Action movies and romantic comedies.) Basically our entertainment feeds us this idea of what is and isn't appropriate or successful romantically and these protips do not work in practice in reality. Example: If you actually stood outside a woman's house holding a beat box blaring the song In Your Eyes what would be the realistic reaction and results? You would probably get the police called on you. (Especially since you're wearing a trench coat, the 90s are dead!) The person you are attempting to woo would not change their mind and come around. Cracked did this article and I think it's a good read. These movies tell men that consent is lame and chicks totally dig it when you disregard their personal space and poo poo. Guh. People get rightfully frustrated when things they've been told will work don't. They don't/rarely think to question what they know. And romantic comedies are no less innocent of loving things up! Sometimes the male lead is just the worst but he still gets the girl! And they present this idea of love and romance that is often just so unrealistic and idealized. Our entire notion of how to date and court someone is based on what movies and television has told us. We begin to form beliefs from these messages that might not be reflected in reality. For example, guys complain that asking for consent totally ruins the mood but but how do they know that? Have they ever tried it? Or is that just something they've been told/lead to believe? I personally can't think of a woman who would dry up like a desert upon being asked for permission to be touched/kissed. Why is the media sending these false messages and ideas? Why aren't more movies more realistic? Is it boring? It isn't enough to just talk about this and educate because we are fighting back against what is effectively propaganda. I think it's been getting better though? I'm honestly not sure. The last handful of "current" movies I watched were: 1. Mad Max: Fury Road which had an amazing feminist agenda and no real romance plot. Then I spent a long time not going to movie theaters before seeing 2. Kubo and the Two Strings where some guy goes on a quest to win over a woman and does so by telling her she's what he's looking for while they are fighting to the death. (The same couple is also traveling together in a reincarnated form and cursed and with memory loss and they seem fond enough of each other. Once they learn who they are they seem chill with each other.) 3. Arrival where they flirt a bit and we are informed they ultimately get married, have a kid, then get divorced. 4. Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them where two characters have a mutual attraction and fall for each other and two different characters just work together and then have an awkward romantically charged splitting with no real relationship or attraction established prior. 3. Moana which had no romance whatsoever. (Unless you count me falling madly in love with the crab. He's just so shiny.) So yeah... I'm really not sure it's getting better. Jenner fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Dec 13, 2016 |
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Dec 13, 2016 13:12
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The only dvd in my collection that's qualifies as a romcom is Amélie. But it's in French so that makes it socially acceptable.
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Dec 13, 2016 14:17
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Jenner posted:In another thread, where I waged a brief war over a general misunderstanding/misconception of consent and sexual assault that just seems ripe throughout our country, I had the realization that a lot of this is because of the conflicting messages society sends via media. (Primary culprits: Action movies and romantic comedies.) (rest of words excised due to length!) I think what the Cracked article is probably perspective moreso from the 'action movies' end of the spectrum than actual 'romantic comedies', with the former coming from a (predominantly) male perspective and the latter from a female one. Rom-coms (or the worst of their ilk, anyway) tends to be less so focused on 'just ignore consent, guys! it's sexier that way!" and more on telling women "just change everything you are to get the (secret) man you want, which is almost never the man you THINK you want! it's that easy!" Example that immediately sprung to mind -- 27 Dresses, where Katherine Heigl gets James Marsden after she "uncork[s] her feelings" and stops pining over Ed Burns. It's kind of the other side of the coin to "just force yourself on a woman til she loves you!"
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Dec 13, 2016 16:28
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/\/\ Agreed. Many romantic comedies have the message of "Change who you are. Be who he wants to win him." Most romcoms are written by men. I'm gonna have to look into more recent romcoms to see if they've improved in the same way Disney Princess movies have become less ripe with terrible messages and feature women with actual agency who make choices now.
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Dec 15, 2016 10:27
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I like The Girl Next Door a lot. I enjoy its exploration of the male lead learning to get over his girlfriend's sexual past. Crazy Stupid Love is probably one of the better modern rom-coms of the 2010s
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Dec 15, 2016 22:42
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I find that most romcoms are often aimed at a female audience, but there are a few that are more from the male point of view, like High Fidelity, which is awesome. Would Knocked Up count as a romcom? Cause that's awesome too.
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Dec 16, 2016 13:54
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Both that and The 40-Year-Old Virgin are romcoms, at heart. They just wear the skin of a ribald sex comedy. I mean, generally, like half of sex comedies end up being romcoms. The other half are trying to tap that Animal House zeitgeist again.
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Dec 16, 2016 15:57
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Paragon8 posted:I like The Girl Next Door a lot. Timothy Olyphant is a national treasure.
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Dec 16, 2016 21:07
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ninjahedgehog posted:Timothy Olyphant is a national treasure. He was spectacular. That movie should have not been as good as it was.
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Dec 16, 2016 22:52
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No discussion of alt-Romantic Comedies would be complete without a big old mention of Hal Hartley, particularly Trust and Flirt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIgv4Tvx3V0 "A family's like a gun. Point it in the wrong direction, you're gonna kill somebody."
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Dec 17, 2016 03:02
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precision posted:No discussion of alt-Romantic Comedies would be complete without a big old mention of Hal Hartley, particularly Trust and Flirt: Hal Hartley loving rules. I've only seen the Henry Fool trilogy, but I feel like what you describe as "alt-rom com" is exactly how they play out, albeit in a very broad, high melodramatic kind of way. It's almost like... what if Wes Anderson was more grounded? Also, speaking of, Moonrise Kingdom is a fantastic romantic comedy with child stars.
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Dec 17, 2016 04:05
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