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Hiring is really broken in tech and i think it strongly relates to why there's so little diversity. Its very cargo cult, with many companies trying to emulate microsoft/google/facebook/etc (basically "tier 1" tech companies), which have very broken hiring processes so the cancer spreads. I've been thinking about it a lot over time due to participation in my own organizations hiring process and finding flaws. Much of the cancer boils down to: a) not knowing what you're really hiring for because you havent taken the time to establish what you really need or b) not having any objective target in mind for your hiring because you think you want to hire a "flexible" workforce The "b" option seems to be most common in the "tier 1" tech companies, the "a" option is just the drive-by you get with some other organizations from time to time. Either way, you end up with a very subjective hiring process, or if your organization likes to have a pretense of standards, what ive come to call a subjective by committee process. It all ends up being easily corrupted by our human cognative biases. The subjectiveness of it all seems like it correlates well with the statements from a (former?) google HR manager about how their hiring process may be no better than random choice. Without any strong objective requirements for a candidate to meet, people will just generalize to what they think will make a good hire, aka a bunch of subjective proxies, or as I've actually heard it referred to by some ivy league business school recruiters, "signaling". Signaling is nothing new to most people with respect to academic institutions and while not all programs are created equal, I'm sure most people would agree that just hiring from a select few institutions would be pretty horrible. Proxies are an easy way to filter though, so its going to happen still (the goog is well known for being especially amenable to Stanford students, at least the past). The same goes for work history "pedigree". The other common objective-less hiring direction become "intelligence" or "aptitude", another somewhat nebulous concept that results in more proxies being used. IQ and standardized tests dont really exist (or are questionably legal) for most job positions, so groups or individuals just kind of make stuff up on their own drawing from their own history and ideas. The output of this in the "technical" interviewing space tends to be a bunch of puzzle questions with moderate to nebulous connections to computer science fundamentals or mathematics. Especially terrible are the questions that are trivia about something an interviewer is obsessed with. The "aptitude" portion has become such a strong meme in hiring that a whole cottage industry has sprung up around it for "interview prep", because its just as gameable as standardized testing. It also means that candidates with greater access to these resources will be more successful, just like standardized testing. tl;dr -- hiring is terrible and broken and of course a bunch of white dudes end up hiring more white dudes to the harm of everyone involved because diversity is important and easily overlooked
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Dec 7, 2016 22:30
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i could want to hire and have criteria for both things, its not like those are mutually exclusive concepts but i guess i should hire people for my math test taking company based on the criteria that they're cool dudes and seem to be like me *hires a thousand white dudes*
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Dec 7, 2016 23:09
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Jonny 290 posted:amazon suuuuuucks do not work for them or normalize their hiring process whats the lovely toxic aspect of theirs?
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Dec 7, 2016 23:24
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hahahahaha i swear nerds massive, fragile egos are motivating a lot of this toxic garbage as well
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Dec 7, 2016 23:47
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my six figure Salaried Bourgeois compensation is earned purely through grit and my entirely unique value for this company making CRUD interfaces, learned ex nihilo from years of watching anime unlike those loving jocks everybody else trying to get this job is a highly suspect cheat, especially if i dont relate to them on a socioeconomic and/or behavioral level, or if they're from the incorrect ethnic group
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Dec 7, 2016 23:59
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I can be randomly drug tested and polygraphed
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Dec 9, 2016 16:59
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yeah id believe that also lol @ "rampant tech job applicant cheating", its almost as toxic as the "we have to drug screen welfare recipients" attitude
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Dec 9, 2016 18:43
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and lol if you didn't a) call them out on it b) just not hire them or even just wrap up that interview early nope lets just take the passive-aggressive nerd option and just subject candidates, already anxious due to this being an interview and everything, to a panopticon that is probably as measurable in effectiveness as online advertising
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Dec 9, 2016 19:17
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Gazpacho posted:the kind of self esteem that asks for money while refusing to prove itself, should be screened out maybe we should start having candidates start wearing some pretty pink panties during their on-sites i mean if they really want the job at Such A Prestigious Company they should be willing to submit to whatever hazing we choose, for whatever underlying motivations we might have for them
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Dec 9, 2016 21:11
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i guess amazon is hiring people to answer easily google-able programming trivia while under surveillance
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Dec 9, 2016 21:25
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Polys are all about intimidating you into being honest more than detecting any dishonesty (really the human reliability people are batter at doing that anyway) im only on the hook for counterintelligence polys so its just a bunch of "are you a spy?" over and over, and luckily only in a random pool some people end up on the hook for "lifestyle" polys and who knows what else that suck a lot more I'm pretty sure my dept pushed back on having them at all for a while but obviously lost in the end
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Dec 10, 2016 02:11
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I like my workplace and my job and mission and everything but yeah clearances suck balls
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Dec 10, 2016 02:34
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List people you trust at your current workplace and people from whatever previous one you held? They probably won't call them until later anyway when you'll care less, and nobody will risk the legal implications of making GBS threads on you
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Dec 10, 2016 03:03
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if only there was some kind of institution you could go to, where you could be both taught, given assignments, and graded in a consistent manner some kind of place of higher learning, that could give you some kind of award for matriculating successfully through some kind of program, and that award could be used to demonstrate your knowledge to others but I guess we'll just have to continue with the chaos 
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Dec 10, 2016 18:24
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lol code jobs and even computer janitoring hiring processes are getting even worse than management consulting maybe because many of these companies are made of and trying to recruit from the same demographic maybe they'll go full on explicit up or out soon
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Dec 11, 2016 09:03
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Or they won't hire you but thanks we've had that little feature request on the back burner of our backlog forever
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Dec 11, 2016 15:42
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one of my friends went to a school where CS was part of the journalism department
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Dec 12, 2016 16:57
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MrMoo posted:Technical interview targeting C++ and networking protocols, what are the chances of not being a trivia quiz? lol they're all trivia quizzes
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Dec 13, 2016 00:41
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seriously "technical" interview is just code speak for "allow us to spend an hour or more asking you trivia/puzzles"
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Dec 13, 2016 00:42
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I'm waiting for the day i get some random algebraic topology question
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Dec 13, 2016 05:39
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carry on then posted:flip the script, op, quiz them on the trivia about their own industry if you don't like how the interview goes, hannibal lecter speak them into suicidal thoughts afterwards
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Dec 15, 2016 18:16
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yeah we just need to go FULL SALARIED BOURGEOISIE and let all the computer toucher children not even have to leave home to collect their phat six figgies
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Dec 15, 2016 20:27
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i've only ever had one written programming test for employment it was by an older company that had been utilizing computers since the early days and I'm pretty sure the test wasn't much younger -- it was pretty much a mock assembly test here are your commands, plz write basic arithmetic, plz write loop, etc
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Dec 16, 2016 02:47
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Agreed
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Dec 17, 2016 18:47
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lol labor laws in the US are garbage
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Dec 21, 2016 05:23
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plz post them
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Dec 24, 2016 06:47
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I think my work has a good mission 
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Dec 25, 2016 06:00
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my old city used to have running and cycling events so yeah you could just participate in whatever corporate wankery suited your fancy/bourgeois habits
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Dec 25, 2016 07:38
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there are dudes at my gym that like to wear khakis and polos and poo poo also an old dude that liked wearing multiple belts
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Dec 27, 2016 02:41
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:seriously lol@not sweating while lifting. lmbo if your gym isnt just a bunch of rusty olympic weights in a non-air-conditioned warehouse in a mostly-empty industrial area. Uh the bump plates aren't rusty because they're covered in rubber
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Dec 27, 2016 06:12
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my gym has bumper plates now its the best
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Dec 27, 2016 17:55
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dick size obv 
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Dec 28, 2016 06:37
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I really can't think of anything worse than interviews for developer positions anymore just the false objectivity -- most other fields with lovely processes at least know they're being elitist selective assholes up front
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Jan 3, 2017 00:28
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Raluek posted:this was not true for the phone interview i had with xilinx, which amounted to "recite some verilog without looking anything up first" and "what is the implementation for <thing> that I am thinking of? not the way you would do it, the way i would do it" yeah its pretty much always this even if the popular opinion or even the one expressed by the interviewers is "just talk a lot about how your trying to solve the problem, thats almost more important than really solving it"
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Jan 5, 2017 07:01
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interviewers are bad at these questions because they have trouble empathizing with the interviewees position of not being so familiar with the problem they're being asked that the solution seems trivial
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Jan 5, 2017 07:03
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Bloody posted:interviewing is so universally poo poo. just keep going and bombing and then you'll randomly be offered a job. gently caress it its pretty much this -- finding a job is a gamble, in many ways it always has been but its especially true with "technical" interviews now Rex-Goliath posted:they key is being referred such that the interview is just a formality this only works for some companies
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Jan 5, 2017 19:48
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im actually kind of surprised I got my current job considering my background but i guess someone needed someone like me at the time now i get to work on things that I otherwise wouldn't have had a chance at given my education and got to improve my education a bit as well
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Jan 6, 2017 17:05
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Maximo Roboto posted:are there any u.s. cities with a lot of tech jobs besides SF/NY/LA/Seattle/ATX every city has "tech jobs" its just if they're the place you want to live and if its the job you would want to work (it probably won't be)
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Jan 9, 2017 06:46
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C.H.O.M.E posted:IDK about Seattle but Austin has offices for: yeah but are these actual offices or just homes for salesmen and contract support types Maximo Roboto posted:Why do people always recommend CLRS for technical interview prep. Even for learning algorithms when in college it's like a thousand pages long and is mostly composed of mathematical proofs. Is the Algorithm Design Manual any good for brushing up for whiteboarding? You don't really have to exhaustively read a textbook; its just a great reference manual for you to scan and find your weak points in or things you may have not encountered
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Jan 9, 2017 20:28
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ADINSX posted:PM School, now offering courses in jira janitoring, phone dialing and buck passing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Management_Professional
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Jan 12, 2017 20:17
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