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I'm posting this because I would appreciate some answers, about a thought experiment. I would appreciate it if everyone answered seriously, at least once. Imagine the following scenario: ~~~ It turns out that the EmDrive is not a hoax, physics is wrong, and some crank actually manages to invent what's actually a warp drive. Some aliens, as part of an intergalactic federation, notice this event, and come to earth. They want to integrate humanity into this new federation, but they need to know how ethical they are before they do anything. This information is very, very important to them. They are willing to go to any lengths to learn the truth. They devise the following experiment. There is a machine, with a lever, 3 pods, and a a set of timer displays visible to all participants. These pods are human sized, and capable of restraining a person completely once they are placed inside, with the exception of one free hand, which cannot open or meddle with the pod. 2 of the pods are not in reach of the lever. 1 of the pods is. Call this pod 'pod 1'. The lever has 3 settings. left, right and middle. 3 people will be placed in the pods. The machine will start, and the timer will count down. The lever starts in the default, 'middle' position. When the timer hits zero, one of three things will happen:
The aliens travel to earth, and secretly abduct 3 people. You are one of those 3. All 3 of you are given time to socialize before the aliens tell you what they want. You learn that all 3 of you are remarkably similar, of equal social standing, age, value to society, temperament, or any other quality you think is important. All 3 of you are friendly (but not friends), and get along well. Yet, none of you are related, or have seen each other before - you are perfect strangers. The aliens tell you about the experiment, it's importance to them, along with some additional information:
You, by random chance, are placed in pod 1. Q1. Which option do you choose? Justify your reasoning. Now, consider the same scenario again, as above, but with one difference: while the aliens are setting up the experiment, and before you were randomly selected as being in pod 1, you notice a switch on the lever. All 3 of you come over and, out of view of the aliens, you deduce that the switch will automatically set the lever to end up in one position. If the switch is activated, the lever will move by itself, without input and without any possibility of changing it afterwards, once the timer has started. The aliens will not notice this. You all deduce that this is not an intended feature of the experiment, that it was left there by mistake for testing purposes. All 3 of you agree that that the best outcome would be to ensure it ends up in the 'left' position. But, as you are all talking, one of your companions raises the following objection: "If we commit to using this feature, we will have deceived the aliens. But we will not have disproved them. This feature, because it removes individual choice, is ultimately evil. It is in our rational self-interest to set the lever to the 'left' position, because none of us knows who will be in which pod. But since it is simply in our self-interest, it cannot prove that we are good people, and in fact, by committing to using this feature, we have proven that humans are selfish, even if the aliens don't know that." All 3 of you are torn on this line of thought. The other 2, for some reason, look to you to resolve the decision. Whatever you decide, they will agree with. Q2. Do you agree with this objection, and regardless of whether you agree of disagree, do you decide to use this feature? Justify your reasoning. The situation is as above, only now, you have been randomly selected to be in pod 1. Q3. Under this new scenario, which option do you choose? Justify your reasoning. Now, imagine the same scenario, as before (ie - all 3 of you discover this feature), only now, before you can decide, one of the other companions pipes up, and agrees with that objection: "Since this feature removes agency, it is evil. Yet, it would still be helpful if, whoever was in pod 1 choose the left option. How about we swear an oath, upon whatever we hold sacred, to carry out that option?" You cannot use the feature, because this companion will prevent you, but you have the option of swearing an oath. Q4. Do you agree, and do you swear the oath? Justify your reasoning. If you decide to swear an oath, your other 2 companions will also swear. If you do not, they will also refuse. Again, as it turns out, you are randomly selected to be in pod 1. Q5. Under this new scenario, which option do you choose? Justify your reasoning. Now, if you answered to not use the feature in question 2, but did swear the oath, and then choose option left in either questions 3 or 5, there is one additional question I would like you to answer: What is the functional difference between using the feature, and swearing the oath? Justify your reasoning. edit: If you answered the above question with the line of reasoning "the oath does not remove choice", then could you please answer this, additional, question: Of what value is swearing the oath, if any? That is, in what substantial sense is scenario #3 different from scenario #1, ethically speaking? ~~~ I realize this is a long and mostly boring post, but this is a thought experiment I've came up with, and have been thinking about a lot recently, and I think I really, really need other people's input on this. So again, I would appreciate sincere & detailed answers. rudatron has issued a correction as of 07:44 on Dec 10, 2016 |
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Dec 10, 2016 04:00
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not particularly
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Dec 10, 2016 04:08
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Dec 10, 2016 04:10
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I'm saving swearing for marriage
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Dec 10, 2016 04:12
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i would have sex with the aliens
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Dec 10, 2016 05:58
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i consume therefore no.
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Dec 10, 2016 05:58
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destroy obviously evil aliens because they came up with a murder experiment and i am obviously will smith
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Dec 10, 2016 06:09
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yeah really all this proves either way is that the aliens are evil
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Dec 10, 2016 06:16
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i thought will smith is a scientologist, so i guess maybe they say they're thetens or something whatever, point is will smith is not cool anymore and therefore can't escape
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Dec 10, 2016 06:17
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um. lol what
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Dec 10, 2016 06:21
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What does it say about my morality if I didn't read the OP?
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Dec 10, 2016 06:29
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nothing welcome to this thread friend
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Dec 10, 2016 06:32
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Agnostalgia posted:yeah really all this proves either way is that the aliens are evil but what do you do i need to know
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Dec 10, 2016 06:33
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isnt evil relative?
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Dec 10, 2016 06:34
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Thanks. Sorry if that came off as dismissive, I just haven't had energy to do anything since Trump won.
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Dec 10, 2016 06:34
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i empathize with that, but this has been bouncing around in my head for the last month or soBaloogan posted:isnt evil relative?
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Dec 10, 2016 06:37
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i dont give a gently caress im snoop doggy dogg
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Dec 10, 2016 06:38
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run neoliberal ru mneoliberal duck neoliberal run motherfucker run run motheuoocker run!
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Dec 10, 2016 06:39
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i say we kill these fuckin aliens and steal all their oil. this is humanity's universe. manifest destiny motherfuckers
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Dec 10, 2016 06:51
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Guys, its real simple. If there's a hard-nosed uncompromising military man telling us we need to destroy the aliens while a brash young scientist says not to, then the aliens are good guys. Otherwise, blast away.
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Dec 10, 2016 07:15
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a brash young CLIMATE scientist?
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Dec 10, 2016 07:16
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I misread this as Radbot again and I was wondering how he got around the 100,000 hour probation.
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Dec 10, 2016 07:17
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i am a terrible person and i deserve absolutely nothing of what ive been given
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Dec 10, 2016 07:18
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Pollyanna posted:i am a terrible person and i deserve absolutely nothing of what ive been given okay paypal it to me please
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Dec 10, 2016 07:21
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Agnostalgia posted:Guys, its real simple. If there's a hard-nosed uncompromising military man telling us we need to destroy the aliens while a brash young scientist says not to, then the aliens are good guys. Otherwise, blast away. also they're really hot and have like fluro hair or some poo poo
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Dec 10, 2016 07:21
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ive seen this anime
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Dec 10, 2016 07:21
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"deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me murdering aliens, you need me murdering aliens"
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Dec 10, 2016 07:22
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I guess I just wouldn't get in the pod its like, What's in it for me? Why should i get in the pod? maybe not even get abducted in the first place idk it seems inconvenient.
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Dec 10, 2016 07:25
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Baloogan posted:okay paypal it to me please no its not rightfully mine but ill fuckin defend it to the death
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Dec 10, 2016 07:26
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Pollyanna posted:no welcome to the republican party
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Dec 10, 2016 07:34
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paid in USD means im actually making real money for once in my dumb life huzzah!
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Dec 10, 2016 07:44
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both usd and canadian imitation dollars are both filthy fiat, fyi
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Dec 10, 2016 07:47
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this is good news for PutinCoin
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Dec 10, 2016 07:47
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the first currency backed by polonium
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Dec 10, 2016 07:49
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if this thread had been posted in D&D they'd be seriously engaging with the premise and that's hosed up.
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Dec 10, 2016 08:03
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whats the premice?
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Dec 10, 2016 08:13
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i do want serious answers eventually but am okay with peeps shitposting forever i just man this has been drilling in my head for a while now, in one form or another shits all hosed up and poo poo
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Dec 10, 2016 08:15
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TRUMP! *CLICK*
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Dec 10, 2016 08:16
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the only real answer is band together to kill the aliens, gently caress their games. imagine if north korea did this with american prisoners? the only moral option is to try to escape and not play sick games with your captors
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Dec 10, 2016 08:17
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but its not about the aliens its about us you & me sitting in a tree k-i-s-s-i-n-g
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Dec 10, 2016 08:18
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