The Leftovers Season 3: Miss LOST?

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > The Leftovers Season 3: Miss LOST?

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Open Source Idiom posted:

I largely agree -- though I'd probably describe the dream navigation stuff as prosaic rather than video-gamey.

But look, for me so much of the show was about a reaction to a single, momentous and inexplicable event that was significant for its singularity. There Depature was an actual, undeniable supernatural event that threw everything human beings had previously understood out of whack and utterly destabilised humanity on a deep, psychological level. All religions were proven wrong, all science was thrown into question and man was made to feel very very small. Social structures buckled, but did not break. New tribal cultures emerged to quantify this new paradigm. Life went on, coping but not metabolising the disaster. The Departure was a wound that couldn't be healed, and humankind was thrown into a constant state of doubt, bewilderment and denial as a result.

So, like, that's my reading of the show. And it's why I'm frustrated by the show's decision to create a topography of the afterlife or to build a concrete mythology to contextualise the Depature. The characters can try to do that, that's a very natural and normalised reaction to trauma. But when the show does it, it feels like an attempt to resolve and neutralise the show's concepts, and it undermines much of its thematic concerns.

The show isn't really about the departed. The flashback pre-departer episode in season 1 was a big clue on that. There is something much bigger going on.

Also Virgil is a liar. He didn't give Kevin poison. He gave him a drug. The same drug his dad is on when he sees him through the tv. "Devil's Tounge". The hotel is not the afterlife. Only 98% dream, 2% spiritual realm.

# ¿ Mar 26, 2017 05:21

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# ¿ May 3, 2024 12:51

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

tadashi posted:

Definitely. The show is about survivors of tragedy and picking up the pieces of your life after a tragedy. I think people who want to watch the show just to find out what happened are watching it for all the wrong reasons. We might get a few more clues about the Departure event in this season but I don't feel the creators have any responsibility to explain it. Perrotta certainly didn't feel a responsibility to explain it in the book and I don't think they have one, either.

The other thing is that, even if they explain the Departure in some way, they would do the show a disservice to give anyone any sort of closure even if they discover more about the event. The whole thing with tragedy is that people often attempt to understand why as though it will help them cope better with the aftermath, but it rarely does.

Not even that. I don't know if you noticed, but the main character, Kevin didn't lose anybody in the departure. The new family introduced in season 2 lived in a town that didn't lose anyone in the departure. The departure is something that happened in their world but it is not what the show is about. In the flashback episode of season 1, Kevin's life was shown to be on the verge of falling apart regardless.

Raxivace posted:

I'm not sure I understand this interpretation. If this were true what would be the point of like, anything Virgil did in that episode?

Like why only knock Kevin out to have Michael bury him anyways?

Why did Virgil promise to revive Kevin with "serum" but eject it all over the floor and blow his brains out? If Virgil could lie about that, what else could he lie about? We still have another season and it seems like Garvey Senior and Australia are going to be the heart of what was going on there, so we'll probably get more info then.

Also the first time Kevin saw Virgil, Kevin was sleep walking and wanted to know how to get rid of Patty. He was instructed he had to kill himself. Why didn't Virgil give Kevin the "poison" then? Why did Kevin jump in the river instead? Because the poison isn't poison.

Guy A. Person posted:

Lindelof's whole oeuvre (specifically the early parts of LOST, Prometheus, and this) deals pretty heavily with how some of the biggest mysteries in life are basically unknowable and either you are a fool for asking or you won't like/understand the answer you get.

I think LOST tried to answer stuff mainly because the network mandated it and the audience expected it but I don't think that was ever really the "point" of the show. Like the answer to "why is there a magical island" or "how/why did 500 million people vanish into thin air" is always going to be either "magic" or "psuedo-science that is effectively magic". The more compelling thing is seeing how people take in this information and react to it/fit it into their whole worldview.

Basically there's no way they try to "explain" the departure in a way that doesn't just open up a million more questions.

I bet it's going to be someone claimed they figured out a way to make people vanish. So they offer their services, with the catch being you don't come back, but you'll go to the same "place" as the departed and be with them again. Probably a scam.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2017 19:29

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Raxivace posted:

To follow him into the "afterlife" and "guide" him, hence the thinly veiled reference with his name to the Divine Comedy (Or it could be The Aeneid, though that's less likely IMO). The serum part probably was a lie, and is the only part I think there's any evidence for being a lie, though Virgil also had Kevin buried in the ground in the forest which was already previously shown to bring the dead back to life- hence Erika's (And let's all remember she's Virgil's daughter) story about burying birds and making wishes and so forth.

International Assassin also heavily implies that Virgil himself could have somehow come back to life had he not "drank the water".
This is what Virgil says about the incident: "You understood just fine the last time. In fact, you grabbed a piece of my rope, picked up a cinder block from outside, then off you walked into the woods. I told you you needed help.You needed a guide. But you were itching to do battle, so off you went to do it. Now, drowning's not the best way to cross. No exit strategy. And like I said, you need a guide. But I'd reckon that quake happened right before you passed, opened up the ground, emptied out all that water. Spared your life. Which means either you got somebody looking out for you or you've got yourself a most powerful adversary".

IOW Kevin just suddenly started acting on his own without Virgil's help.

Aw, okay. I haven't seen it in a while, so I don't remember the details too well.

UmOk posted:

Also the bullet that went through Kevin wasn't a Bullet. It was a drug.

Not only did the two main families not lose anyone in the departure but none of the significant GR characters did either. Patti, Meg, Kevin-wife.

Meg is the worst. She's not even a believer. Just really vindictive.

People can survive gun shots. But there is a small vague spiritual/divine happening as well. And the drug was still in Kevin's system. I don't think it has to be either supernatural or rational explanation. I think it can be all of the above.

Agronox posted:

Um, aren't we forgetting something when we say Kevin's wife didn't lose anyone?

We don't know for sure because they never showed it. It's just implied. We don't know the full story yet.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2017 22:42

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

So is Twin Peaks bad now because of Bob and the black lodge?

# ¿ Apr 2, 2017 19:35

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Lord Krangdar posted:

Kinda funny after Lindelof's oft-criticized work on Prometheus with the map maker who gets lost, biologist who gets killed provoking the first life they find, pilot who (intentionally) crashes the ship, scientists who base everything on faith, and so on.

You know, I never really looked at it that way. I always liked the premise and the mythology but hated the characters which ruined the movie for me. They behaved more like college kids on summer break than scientists and engineers exploring the far reaches of space.

# ¿ Apr 6, 2017 05:55

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Last Chance posted:

Laurie lost her unborn child.

Again, it's implied but never confirmed. This is a Damon Lindelof show. We don't know the full story.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2017 02:27

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

El Jeffe posted:

Oh lol I thought he put a strip across his legs for some reason.

He did when he was prepping the bag. Maybe it's a superstitious ritual to keep Patti/sleepwalking away?

Also, I don't know anything about history or religion, what's the significance of birds with notes wrapped around their legs? How does it apply to the prologue and ending of the episode? Like I get pilgrim lady and flashfoward Nora are a reflection of each other, but in what way?

# ¿ Apr 19, 2017 01:18

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

The first half of season one... isn't very good and probably why the viewship is so low. I had a hard time getting into the show and getting invested with the characters/caring about them. The episode 5 ending really resonated with me(the hosed up phone call from the FBI, the montage of the GR woman's body being incinerated) and it took off for me from there. I think the weirder and crazier the show got the more I started to love it. I can not understand how someone can like season one more than two.

Also how long until new episodes show up on HBO Now?

# ¿ Apr 23, 2017 19:25

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Dr. Tim Whatley posted:

That's not the same video

Besides the name generator in the credits, what was different?

# ¿ Apr 24, 2017 05:05

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

The Dave posted:

You are correct.

The highlighted lines are the ones he didn't read.

Where is this from?

# ¿ May 31, 2017 17:39

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

What do you guys think the difference between the two Kevins were? I think it was season 2 Kevin vs season 3 Kevin. The journey vs the destination. If all the best experiences are about the journey and not the destination, what do you do when you finally get what you were looking for? What if it's unfulfilling and you want out? What are you suppose to do? Why is it unfulfilling? What does he get from his quest to expunge his imaginary friend that he doesn't get from being with his family and the ones he loves? I was wondering what season 3 would be about since everything seemed to have gotten resolved in the season 2 finale.

# ¿ Jun 3, 2017 21:18

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

clown shoes posted:

One had a beard and the other one did it.

Interesting... the episode opened with Nora implying she wanted Kevin to grow a beard.

# ¿ Jun 3, 2017 23:59

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

The episode was good but... uuuuuuuuuuuhhh disappointed as poo poo that they actually explained what happened to the departed.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2017 03:25

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

UmOk posted:

Nora's story doesn't really add up. If all these people were coming through to departed-land that would be proof to the departed people that you can move between worlds. Wouldn't the scientist have immediately started building a machine and sending everyone home?

Yeah I'm a moron. Laurie changed her mind. So did Nora. "It's a nice story". The whole thing with the doves not really going anywhere. Kevin making up a story on how he found her. It even ended with the doves coming back. Went from being disappointed to really appreciating it. Just had to think on it a bit.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2017 04:10

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

I suspect "so the 2% were in a parallel universe" will be the new "so they were dead the whole time"

# ¿ Jun 5, 2017 04:55

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

oliwan posted:

Just saw it and lmao what a joke.

Kevin's superpowers are central to the show, and they are just written in without any kind of validation, just like an 8 year old writing a story where everything can happen. That's the level of writing here.

Kevin didn't have superpowers. It just looked like he did.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2017 23:29

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Dr. Tim Whatley posted:

I loved that Kevin's heart thing proved there was nothing supernatural in the show at all.

I don't think it was proof just circular irony that in his hotel dream world he "fixes himself" by removing a nuclear launch key surgically implanted near his heart "so that he could never come back to this place" but in the real world he has a heart attack and needed a pace maker to keep living. So it seems one caused the other, but without anymore information or proof it's just a coincidence. Maybe the dream was a prophecy, but old people have heart attacks and have heart conditions. Regardless, I think the show was saying it's a waste of time to obsess over this kind of stuff.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2017 23:54

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

and the claw won! posted:

Kevin's dad ran into that guy who got rejected for giving the opposite answer of Nora and who immolates himself for it. Combined with Nora's story about tracking down the scientists and camping out on their doorstep, it supports the idea that the scientists were looking for determination above all else. Also it strikes me that both of these parts have some intersectionality or whatever with random poo poo an American has heard about Buddhism, for whatever that's worth.

I thought it was being able to answer the question without hesitation, like Kevin Sr. did. Otherwise people ratilonalize their way out of it in the moment they're in the machine(which I believe Nora did).

# ¿ Jun 11, 2017 16:08

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# ¿ May 3, 2024 12:51

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Trumps Baby Hands posted:

You have to be less than human to have believed for an instant that Nora was lying

Care to explain?

# ¿ Jun 12, 2017 18:57

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > The Leftovers Season 3: Miss LOST?