The Leftovers Season 3: Miss LOST?

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Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

So I binge watched this entire series over the last few days. Season 1 was fantastic, though IMO there was a drop in quality for season 2 that was pretty disappointing. Everything felt less grounded in reality and Jarden/Miracle didn't feel quite as realized a location as Mapleton to me, despite the good premise and the Murphy family being strong additions to the cast.

Still looking forward to season 3, though I'm a little more cautious now after season 2.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2017 20:11

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# ¿ Apr 30, 2024 17:56

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

The afterlife stuff only bothered me when Kevin was actually going there, and only because to me it felt more like he got trapped in a video game instead of an incomprehensible dream world or an afterlife that defies human understanding.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 05:32

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

Kevin having to face a ghostly fetus of his unborn child in some kind of Eraserhead showdown would be pretty bonkers to be fair.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 18:45

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

I think the Mulholland Dr. afterlife stuff in the season 2 finale was better but still harmed by bit where the guy at the bar straight up tells Kevin he needs to sing to get back. It once again gives Kevin an easy to understand video game type objective he has to clear to come back to life, though luckily Theroux loving nails it once he gets on stage.

In International Assassin, the well scene is the only one I thought worked really well. If I had to pick a single episode as my least favorite this would probably be it.

Raxivace fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Mar 25, 2017

# ¿ Mar 25, 2017 05:24

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

Open Source Idiom posted:

I largely agree -- though I'd probably describe the dream navigation stuff as prosaic rather than video-gamey.

But look, for me so much of the show was about a reaction to a single, momentous and inexplicable event that was significant for its singularity. There Depature was an actual, undeniable supernatural event that threw everything human beings had previously understood out of whack and utterly destabilised humanity on a deep, psychological level. All religions were proven wrong, all science was thrown into question and man was made to feel very very small. Social structures buckled, but did not break. New tribal cultures emerged to quantify this new paradigm. Life went on, coping but not metabolising the disaster. The Departure was a wound that couldn't be healed, and humankind was thrown into a constant state of doubt, bewilderment and denial as a result.

So, like, that's my reading of the show. And it's why I'm frustrated by the show's decision to create a topography of the afterlife or to build a concrete mythology to contextualise the Depature. The characters can try to do that, that's a very natural and normalised reaction to trauma. But when the show does it, it feels like an attempt to resolve and neutralise the show's concepts, and it undermines much of its thematic concerns.

Not sure I have much to add but I like this post and I think I see where you're coming from.

Why exactly do you think Lindelof and co. decided to take things in this kind of a direction? If I were to make a guess they were trying to broaden the "universe" of the show, even if in some ways it made things feel actually smaller and more inherently knowable.

Last Chance posted:

I think that's really well put, and I wonder if they'll try to remain vague about what the departure actually was, but give us another sense of closure by admitting that the departed are fuckin dead, wherever they are. And maybe Kevin has to bring that message of closure to humanity by seeing them in the afterlife and reporting that back to the living.

If they're just dead, even if its for unknown reasons, I kind of feel like that just gives things a little too much closure.

# ¿ Mar 25, 2017 20:32

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

Ausmund posted:

He didn't give Kevin poison. He gave him a drug.

I'm not sure I understand this interpretation. If this were true what would be the point of like, anything Virgil did in that episode?

Like why only knock Kevin out to have Michael bury him anyways?

Raxivace fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Mar 27, 2017

# ¿ Mar 27, 2017 07:10

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

Ausmund posted:

Why did Virgil promise to revive Kevin with "serum" but eject it all over the floor and blow his brains out?

To follow him into the "afterlife" and "guide" him, hence the thinly veiled reference with his name to the Divine Comedy (Or it could be The Aeneid, though that's less likely IMO). The serum part probably was a lie, and is the only part I think there's any evidence for being a lie, though Virgil also had Kevin buried in the ground in the forest which was already previously shown to bring the dead back to life- hence Erika's (And let's all remember she's Virgil's daughter) story about burying birds and making wishes and so forth.

International Assassin also heavily implies that Virgil himself could have somehow come back to life had he not "drank the water".

quote:

He was instructed he had to kill himself. Why didn't Virgil give Kevin the "poison" then? Why did Kevin jump in the river instead?

This is what Virgil says about the incident: "You understood just fine the last time. In fact, you grabbed a piece of my rope, picked up a cinder block from outside, then off you walked into the woods. I told you you needed help.You needed a guide. But you were itching to do battle, so off you went to do it. Now, drowning's not the best way to cross. No exit strategy. And like I said, you need a guide. But I'd reckon that quake happened right before you passed, opened up the ground, emptied out all that water. Spared your life. Which means either you got somebody looking out for you or you've got yourself a most powerful adversary".

IOW Kevin just suddenly started acting on his own without Virgil's help.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2017 19:46

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

Escobarbarian posted:

At the very least s2 doesn't have anything as crap as the stolen baby jesus episode

I liked that episode. It was nice little exploration of Kevin, his daughter, and their relationship- something season 2 abandoned almost entirely, unfortunately.

axeil posted:

I really liked Holy Wayne...only after he died and it throws whether what he was actually doing was real into question. It reminded me of pushing the button in the Hatch in S2 of LOST

Yeah Wayne's death scene actually did a lot to humanize his character. It really does make me think all of his posturing and such was as much an attempt to convince himself that what what he was doing was real as much as everyone else.

Raxivace fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Apr 7, 2017

# ¿ Apr 7, 2017 18:38

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

I don't think I'd say season 2 is a bad season of television- l just find a lot of directions it went to either not be as strong as the stuff season 1 did or a little too blatantly pulled from relatively popular movies, some of which are from the last several years.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2017 00:27

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

To be fair, when the Lost finale aired on TV it was followed by images of the 815 crash over the credits. That wasn't actually a creative decision on Lindelof and Cuse's part (I think it was some weirdo ABC executive or something that threw that in there) and I can see how that could cause people to massively misinterpret the ending.

It's a super interesting phenomenon from a semiotic point of a view.

Raxivace fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Apr 9, 2017

# ¿ Apr 9, 2017 08:41

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

Season 1 had Carrie Coon getting naked and Season 2 had Justin Theroux getting naked.

Who is getting naked in Season 3? This is important and should probably be spoiled so we can all properly prepare ahead of time.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2017 17:27

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

UmOk posted:

I would watch a season where the departed come come back exactly as they were with absolutely no explanation of what happened. Just focus on the returnees dealing with a world that moved on without them.

Yeah that could be pretty interesting.

Like even if it was just Nora's husband and kids coming back to find out Nora is not only with some other dude but has an entirely different family now, when from their perspective no time at all has passed could alone generate tons of interesting drama.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2017 03:05

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

HanabaL03 posted:

Someone please refresh my memory, we never found out what Kevin wished for from Wayne?

The implication was that he wanted his family back together.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2017 01:15

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

The parts of this episode that were like "Hey let's justify why like six major characters from the previous seasons probably won't be around anymore" felt a little awkward to me, particularly the sudden missile strike. It kind of felt like something out of a different show to me.

Otherwise I dug it.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2017 03:57

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

Lord Krangdar posted:

She was already planning on leaving John, their daughter betraying them and then dying probably pushed that process along even further.

Her father committing suicide in the same time-frame certainly couldn't have helped matters either.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2017 05:41

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

joepinetree posted:

That the government gives absolute no fucks about massacring cults and the guilty remnant is something that has been long established in the show.

It still feels a little off to me in how it was executed, but that's a valid point.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2017 05:56

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

Thom and the Heads posted:

Anyone else find themselves turning off HBO shows before the preview of the next week's show? There's no way I'm not seeing the show next week. The guy who plays John continues to be one of the most dynamic actors I've ever seen.

I sometimes do that. Back when Lost was airing I remember there being a podcast that was so hardcore about avoiding spoilers that the hosts wouldn't even watch the "previously on" segments before new episodes and even went out of their way to avoid learning the names of the episodes before watching them. They were pretty committed.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2017 14:05

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

Invalid Validation posted:

No matter what happens the ending will piss a lot of people off. I wish I was that cool.

I'm not looking forward to the people that are mad at the ending who never even saw more than an episode or two of the show.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2017 05:05

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

I get that the idea was that Nora is reliving past trauma, but even with that in mind the episode really had a bit of a "been here, done that" feeling to me.

It's still an hour devoted to Carrie Coon so its not the worst thing in the world.

Raxivace fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Apr 24, 2017

# ¿ Apr 24, 2017 06:24

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

The trampoline stuff is weird and I'm not entirely sure it works, but as a weird stress relief thing it parallels Kevin's adventures in asphyxiation, Matt's writing of a New New Testament, the Busey inflatable, John's denial of Evie's death, the belief Tower Man Departed despite definitely dying, etc.

Season 3 is really opening hard on this idea of people's mechanisms for coping with life manifesting in strange and sometimes unhealthy ways.

# ¿ Apr 25, 2017 03:30

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

Lord Krangdar posted:

Except its the only coping mechanism shown in the entire show that's been healthy and constructive.

I meant that I'm not sure it works as a scene in the show, not that it isn't portrayed as healthy.

# ¿ Apr 25, 2017 08:17

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

I just want Efren Salonga to finally return to television.

# ¿ Apr 27, 2017 08:34

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

If the prologue people are talking about is the stuff with the Millerites, it was absolutely set in Australia according to the director of the episode, Mimi Leder.

quote:

Like last season, the premiere opens with a scene from the distant past�though not as distant as cavemen times. Why did you want to start that way?

Well, I have to give credit to Damon Lindelof and Tom Perrotta and their incredibly brilliant team of writers who came up with the idea of this cult called the Millerites. I believe they actually existed in New York and this group that we were telling the story about was a group out of Adelaide, Australia. And as you know, we never say, �These are the Millerites!� and we never say, �It�s 1844� and we never say where we are. Because I think the whole point of that sequence was that these people were precursors to our Guilty Remnant. There have been groups that have existed forever who are looking for answers. Looking for what does it mean to be human? How do we face our own mortality? How can we get out of this place? This season is very much about belief systems and about the stories we tell ourselves that give meaning to our lives. So I think this prologue, like the cavewoman, this family is preparing for what they believe in, the impending Judgment Day. It�s all about faith and it�s all about the cycle of life.

Source: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/04/16/inside-the-leftovers-premiere-director-mimi-leder-answers-our-burning-questions.

The sequence just does not do a good job at all of communicating that it's actually in Australia, which is a shame since it is otherwise pretty decent.

Raxivace fucked around with this message at 16:31 on May 2, 2017

# ¿ May 2, 2017 16:28

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

Hakkesshu posted:

Was Kevin's dad bit in the arm by the snake the exact same way that the cavewoman in the first episode of S2 was? I forget how that scene went.

Yeah, I think so. She died trying to get her child to safety after the cave-in.

Someone on a podcast pointed out that in S1 that...Lilly's birth mother, I think, had a dream in a random episode about underwater spiders or something. I can't remember the exact line but it did remind me of the Itsy Bitsy Spider stuff in this episode.

# ¿ May 3, 2017 20:05

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

The twist with the woman not being Evie was telegraphed a little too hard, but otherwise that was a pretty good episode. Insane Kevin is best Kevin.

# ¿ May 8, 2017 03:37

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

I thought the beginning of this season was bumpy but I've been liking this string of character study episodes much more than any of the stuff from the latter half of season 2 personally.

# ¿ May 16, 2017 02:36

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

cwinkle posted:

Am I the only one who expected a Kelsey Grammar cameo? You never know with this show.

I half expected someone to try and trick Matt into saying "Fraiser" by asking about famous shows that Kelsey Grammar was on.

# ¿ May 16, 2017 02:42

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

HanabaL03 posted:

Anyone else find it surprising that almost no spoilers have leaked for this season? I remember we had a whole separate thread for LOST episodes that was spoiler discussion only. Everyone was leaking poo poo back then.

Lost was also significantly more popular and the drive to know "the answers" was much higher than it is with The Leftovers. It doesn't seem that surprising to me.

# ¿ May 17, 2017 01:06

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

When Leftovers is done, I hope Lindelof just writes small indie films or something in the style of "Two Boats and a Helicopter" instead of stuff like Tomorrowland. He's insanely good at the former and not quite so much the blockbustery stuff.

# ¿ May 19, 2017 10:43

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

Lord Krangdar posted:

To be fair he has yet to work on a movie where he is given a high degree of freedom. Prometheus is probably the closest to his usual themes and even then he said he mainly came in and reworked the existing script based on what Ridley Scott wanted (more ambiguity, less direct Alien references) not what he wanted.

That's a fair point to bring up, though I had thought he had relatively free reign on Tomorrowland.

# ¿ May 20, 2017 11:43

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

UmOk is usually a solid poster. That was a goofy thing he posted but you should cut him some slack IMO.

# ¿ May 24, 2017 11:15

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

HanabaL03 posted:

For those of you that have watched both The Leftovers and LOST, which musical score had more of an emotional connection for you?

I'm a big LOST fan, but the score for this show is so simple and beautiful. It's a tight one, but I'm going with The Leftovers.

The Leftovers music often hits me harder, and generally seems to come in at just the right moment to me.

I like the Lost score but sometimes it felt a little overbearing to me. I will say that Lost used diegetic licensed music to great effect though- the "Make Your Own Kind of Music" and "Shotgun Willie" sequences in particular stand out to me.

# ¿ May 26, 2017 18:13

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

One idea that I really wish had been left more ambiguous in season 2 that I never see anyone else talk about is about is the thing about Matt possibly raping Mary. The way it initially plays makes it seem like it could go in this direction, and Matt's story about Mary coming out of her coma one night and whether viewers even believe it or not fits the general themes of the story really loving well. It also helps that that episode was one of the better ones of season 2.

So why then it was undermined when the writers had Mary come out of her coma for good and announce that she totally remembers consenting that night with Matt is something I've never heard a particularly convincing argument for, especially considering how her character and their child was written away anyways in season 3. It just feels like a very bathetic way to handle a storyline that really seemed ripe for drama and is even relevant to a lot of real world debates going on today in regards to how victimized women are treated in society.

Maybe Lindelof and Perotta thought it was just too uncomfortable and dark for the kind of show Leftovers is, I dunno.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2017 23:32

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

theflyingexecutive posted:

"Do you remember when we conceived our child?"
"No, not at all"
*Nirvana starts blasting from a car stereo*

I mean that's one way it could have gone I guess (I've never listened to Nirvana so I dunno if you're loving with me or not). They also could have never had Mary come out of her coma, though that wouldn't have given Janel Moloney a whole lot to do.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2017 23:43

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

I think having the ending focus on Kevin and Nora was probably the right choice, but none of the attempts at injecting ambiguity really worked for me.

Like if Nora wasn't lying about the other world then that kind of ruins the Sudden Departure as a storytelling device for me. If Laurie is still alive then her episode feels a bit pointless to me. If Kevin and Nora are in the hotel world then its literally just Lost's ending again.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2017 12:24

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

Lick! The! Whisk! posted:

Inception, he's in the real world; Blade Runner, Deckard's clearly a Replicant

Neither of those things are clear in those movies.

# ¿ Jun 6, 2017 16:29

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

To be fair I don't think these characters were ever meant to be especially likable. Like it kind of comes with the premise of these people being horribly broken ever since the Departure happened.

# ¿ Jun 7, 2017 04:57