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Jack2142 posted:For shame being a Sounders fan and not showing Dempsey's 30 second goal Adam Kawarasey's career has been a long series of great effort that is ruined by being hung out to dry by everyone around him.
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Jan 4, 2017 00:04
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I'm hearing that Matarrita is doing a trial at Manchester City, or maybe it's not a trial and just part of NYCFC's partnership with them, not sure.
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Jan 4, 2017 00:38
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Jack2142 posted:For shame being a Sounders fan and not showing Dempsey's 30 second goal Signed the keeper, who then pulled out an all time performance in a shootout vs SKC on the way to winning a cup. Signing Kwarasay wasn't the joke. Letting him go because a Kiwi got hot so Amos McGee can poach him in MN is the joke. Welcome to GBS posted:Adam Kawarasey's career has been a long series of great effort that is ruined by being hung out to dry by everyone around him. You've been paying attention to the Norwegian league for all of Kwarasay's career? I thought we agreed you were going to stick with BigSoccer or Reddit for your hot takes? highme fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 14:14
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Your Boy Fancy posted:Why didn't they just call Minnesota the loving Loons. Eh, they will. In shorthand/informally. But what works there might still look silly on a league table (though Aussie Rules' Sydney Swans may beg to differ there.) Besides, Minnesota's fans wanted to keep United when they switched leagues and I suppose that just this once the league saw no need to eat a PR poo poo sandwich for forcing the issue. I'm kind of sympathetic about the broader issue of Team Naming because either way you go it is so easy to get it wrong with SOMEBODY. You can make a generic name work if people like the rest of the branding and if it isn't appropriating something that makes less than no sense (see: TFC or MNU as opposed to...oh, we all know who I was going to mention here), whereas whether a US-style nickname goes down well feels kind of unpredictable (and depends on who it needs to go down well WITH, existing local fans vs. potential local fans vs. existing national MLS fans vs. potential national MLS fans, each of which groups and subgroups may want different things). Arguably, all of the original 10's names were terrible in the finest 90s tradition except possibly DC (depending on whether you think DC should be blamed for starting the trend of North American soccer teams trying to copy Euro naming conventions with flimsy justifications - but the lower leagues and amateur circuits are littered with that poo poo anyway). But we mostly don't mock the ones that survived (or won a lot, loving Galaxy). If the NASL had never existed, would the San Jose Earthquakes or Portland Timbers be dumb names or inspired ones? Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 16:16
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All sports team nicknames are inherently bad and just get accepted over time, assuming they aren't really bad. With a few exceptions, all NFL team nicknames are random and uninspired, yet no one seems to care...after like 60 years of existence. I think if you rename RSL and the Red Bulls then the problem is pretty much solved. Also maybe make teams who randomly tacked "FC" and "SC" on to the end of their names decide if they actually want "Football Club" or "Soccer Club" or just drop that pretense entirely. MLS has big problems with appearances and not being taken seriously, and bad team names are part of that, but by no means are they the biggest problem. The fan who might think a team name is bad but is able to look past it still sees a league with 13 drafts. wicka fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 16:29
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wicka posted:All sports team nicknames are inherently bad and just get accepted over time, assuming they aren't really bad.  wicka posted:MLS has big problems with appearances and not being taken seriously, and bad team names are part of that, but by no means are they the biggest problem. The fan who might think a team name is bad but is able to look past it still sees a league with 13 drafts. I, for one, think the biggest problem with MLS' appearance and being taken seriously is that most of the players are bad. (But since they actually want to develop and use North American players rather than become another Premier League, this is for now kind of unavoidable but will improve over time.) Like a nickname, if a league lasts long enough, that portion of its wacky convoluted bullshit that survives will be accepted over time and become authentic. People go into frankly awe-inspiring detail understanding the NFL and NHL's salary cap contortions and running mock drafts/waiver wires/trade scenarios, after all (this is just what I'm familiar with, maybe the NBA or baseball are marvels of simplicity by comparison).
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Jan 4, 2017 16:58
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Bad team names would be downright entertaining if the Soccer Don wasn't continuously making the dumbest decisions possible.Dallan Invictus posted:I, for one, think the biggest problem with MLS' appearance and being taken seriously is that most of the players are bad. (But since they actually want to develop and use North American players rather than become another Premier League, this is for now kind of unavoidable but will improve over time.) American players would be far better served by being exposed to and forced to compete with excellent talent rather than being protected and coddled. Protectionist policies are a central tenant of the FMF and one of the largest contributors to why Mexican players have gotten worse and worse every year while the rest of CONCACAF continues to improve. MLS would be far better served if its wage structures were such that a team could afford to buy a handful of strong players composing the core of a team rather than always splashing out on one or two big names some idiot in a marketing office thought would fill up seats. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 17:01
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Dallan Invictus posted:People go into frankly awe-inspiring detail understanding the NFL and NHL's salary cap contortions and running mock drafts/waiver wires/trade scenarios, after all (this is just what I'm familiar with, maybe the NBA or baseball are marvels of simplicity by comparison). Yes, but they have no other choice. There is one football league. There is one hockey league. For soccer, there is a global market. I can watch more of the Premier League on television than I can MLS, and the rules are a hell of a lot easier to understand, and the level of play is a lot higher. It will take a lot of time and money for MLS to develop the talent needed to compete globally, and that's probably what it's going to take to get better TV exposure. But as far as the rules go, they can just change it. They could do it right loving now. But I have to stress my first point: NOTHING other American leagues do have any relevance to what MLS should do because they have effectively no competition from other leagues playing the same sport. They can dictate whatever dumb rules they want and fans are forced to accept them because they have no alternatives. MLS does not have this luxury, not by a long shot.
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Jan 4, 2017 17:01
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Ciprian Maricon posted:American players would be far better served by being exposed to and forced to compete with excellent talent rather than being protected and coddled. Protectionist policies are a central tenant of the FMF and one of the largest contributors to why Mexican players have gotten worse and worse every year while the rest of CONCACAF continues to improve. It's not about the current American players, most of them are a lost cause. It's about the generations rising and to come that need someplace where they can play professionally and competitively, with and against comparatively excellent talent, but where they can also actually get playing time to improve without being shoved to the bench in favour of a Euro/South American player who is already better for a team that needs to win. Canada is finally looking to start its own national domestic league (as opposed to a regional match-fixing front) in the near future and this is explicitly the rationale, and I don't blame the USSF for thinking similarly. (also I suspect that, ironically, MLS being a place like this, where the salaries are also actually pretty big and arrive on time compared to most other leagues in CONCACAF, is a big reason that the rest of CONCACAF continues to improve. Look at the articles in the Costa Rican press about MLS pillaging Saprissa this winter, I'm sure they're even more hilarious if you can read them in the original Spanish instead of relying on Google Translate.) quote:MLS would be far better served if its wage structures were such that a team could afford to buy a handful of strong players composing the core of a team rather than always splashing out on one or two big names some idiot in a marketing office thought would fill up seats. The main reason that the league is piling on so many different colours of Monopoly money instead of just raising the goddamn cap is that, in a world where two thirds of an MLS roster has to be domestic, raising the cap and adding free agency would just mean overpaying the Conor Caseys of the world (see for example the "English tax" in the PL, where mediocre players who meet the homegrown quota draw hilarious wages and transfer fees), whereas when you combine all the different salary cap exemptions (DPs, TAM, homegrowns/Generation Adidas) you can actually put together a solid core group if you scout well. It's not ideal, but within the context of American soccer it's working towards the situation you describe. wicka posted:Yes, but they have no other choice. There is one football league. There is one hockey league. For soccer, there is a global market. I can watch more of the Premier League on television than I can MLS, and the rules are a hell of a lot easier to understand, and the level of play is a lot higher. It will take a lot of time and money for MLS to develop the talent needed to compete globally, and that's probably what it's going to take to get better TV exposure. But as far as the rules go, they can just change it. They could do it right loving now. Most of this is true (the KHL may someday be competition for the NHL if Russia can avoid starting World War 3 in the next decade or so but that's another thread), but I think our fundamental disagreement is that I simply don't think the structure is what matters for potential fans compared to the other two advantages that the PL, for example, has. Most people care about the games, the metagames just set the stage. And yes, the rules are within MLS' control and could be changed, but there are reasons they exist besides Don Garber's personal grudge against you. Maybe some of those reasons are not as valid as they were, maybe some of those rules now hurt more than they help, maybe the whole thing is a dumb imperfect messy compromise (it's this one). But the context of why they exist needs to be reckoned with, and this winter needs to loving end already so I can post textwalls about the game instead of the metagame please and thank you. Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 17:32
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 PC's been really good in the NASL, I'm excited to see what he can do in MLS. He should get a decent amount of playing time, too, since Mikey Ambrose went to Atlanta and Luke Boden is... actually I don't know where Boden went but he's not on their roster anymore!
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Jan 4, 2017 17:44
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Dallan Invictus posted:Most of this is true (the KHL may someday be competition for the NHL if Russia can avoid starting World War 3 in the next decade or so but that's another thread), but I think our fundamental disagreement is that I simply don't think the structure is what matters for potential fans compared to the other two advantages that the PL, for example, has. And yes, the rules are within MLS' control and could be changed, but there are reasons they exist besides Don Garber's personal grudge against you. Maybe some of those reasons are not as valid as they were, maybe some of those rules now hurt more than they help, maybe the whole thing is a dumb imperfect messy compromise (it's this one). How many people tune in to hear about allocation money?
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Jan 4, 2017 17:48
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camoseven posted:and Luke Boden is... actually I don't know where Boden went but he's not on their roster anymore! They declined his option this year so I guess he's off to the Island of Misfit Toys.
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Jan 4, 2017 17:52
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highme posted:You've been paying attention to the Norwegian league for all of Kwarasay's career? I thought we agreed you were going to stick with BigSoccer or Reddit for your hot takes? Because it's so difficult to keep up with your soccer genius? Don't worry, you and everyone here are very special fans, much more important than your average redditor.. 
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Jan 4, 2017 18:29
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wicka posted:How many people tune in to hear about allocation money? Zero. I think that's part of his point. But they tune in to watch the players paid for with that allocation money. And when they do they also see American players who aren't too hilariously overpaid because the money's gotta go somewhere and a higher salary cap w/o changing the other roster construction rules would result in that. And changing the roster construction rules would mean they wouldn't see many Americans at all, which would go against one of the stated goals of having an MLS in the first place. Which I think is the rest of the point.
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Jan 4, 2017 19:15
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Xylorjax posted:Zero. I think that's part of his point. But they tune in to watch the players paid for with that allocation money. And when they do they also see American players who aren't too hilariously overpaid because the money's gotta go somewhere and a higher salary cap w/o changing the other roster construction rules would result in that. And changing the roster construction rules would mean they wouldn't see many Americans at all, which would go against one of the stated goals of having an MLS in the first place. Which I think is the rest of the point. How is that his point? No one is tuning in because they are interested in these Byzantine rules, but people are sure as poo poo turned off by it. You say they turn in to watch players bought by allocation money - but only because it exists. Just get rid of it and increase the cap slightly to compensate. IMO, abandon all these idiotic rules and set the cap closer to what clubs' real wages are. MLS needs every advantage in the world if they want to grow and compete with the best in the world, the last thing they need is to hurt themselves, yet that's exactly what they're doing.
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Jan 4, 2017 19:34
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wicka posted:How is that his point? No one is tuning in because they are interested in these Byzantine rules, but people are sure as poo poo turned off by it. My point is, and has always been, that the second part of that sentence is not relevant (at least for people who are not obsessives like us) compared to the fact that the PL is easier to find on TV and the players are better. Americans watch sports with Byzantine player movement rules, and learn said Byzantine rules to the best of their ability or follow people that do for their dumb hot takes, all the fuckin' time, and I don't buy "they have no choice but to do that" - other sports exist! Other entertainment methods exist! Limiting your conception of "competition for the NFL" to "only other American Football leagues" is great for your argument but bears no relation to reality. NFL ratings dropped like 20% the first half of this season - what did they go watch? College football? The Arena league? The Donald Trump Traveling Roadshow? (not the USFL, the other one) quote:You say they turn in to watch players bought by allocation money - but only because it exists. Just get rid of it and increase the cap slightly to compensate. IMO, abandon all these idiotic rules and set the cap closer to what clubs' real wages are. As I have tried to explain in tedious detail but will now instead try and summarise, allocation money in its various flavours, and all the other complications to the roster construction rules, exist because MLS has various priorities that act at cross-purposes with each other, and is working with owners that aren't broadly willing to lose seven or eight figures a year indefinitely to bootstrap a soccer league and appreciate being protected from themselves, skeptical broadcasters, a viewing public that largely has other better options, and last-but-definitely-not-least, a veteran player pool (and, crucially for this, a large voting bloc in the players' union) that, if MLS didn't exist, would mostly now be small-town dentists or car salesmen like 90% of college athletic standouts, not making bank in the global market. These things probably constrain Don Garber's set of choices even if you managed to body-snatch him and steal his job. Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 20:17
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Shocked he didn't go to Portland or Seattle tbh.
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Jan 4, 2017 20:24
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Dallan Invictus posted:My point is, and has always been, that the second part of that sentence is not relevant (at least for people who are not obsessives like us) compared to the fact that the PL is easier to find on TV and the players are better. Americans watch sports with Byzantine player movement rules, and learn said Byzantine rules to the best of their ability or follow people that do for their dumb hot takes, all the fuckin' time, and I don't buy "they have no choice but to do that" - other sports exist! Other entertainment methods exist! Limiting your conception of "competition for the NFL" to "only other American Football leagues" is great for your argument but bears no relation to reality. NFL ratings dropped like 20% the first half of this season - what did they go watch? Sucks that you "don't buy" that argument since it's unquestionably true. Not really going to go into this further, it's a fact that MLS has real competition in its space and the NFL doesn't, it's the height of childish delusion to suggest otherwise. And my point is that the raw number of fans who are turned away by MLS's idiotic rules isn't important, but rather the fact that ANYONE is turned away, and that they are wholly unnecessary rules that can be scrapped if MLS would simply do it. Again, the other problems take time to solve. This one doesn't. Stop defending it. Dallan Invictus posted:As I have tried to explain in tedious detail but will now instead try and summarise, allocation money in its various flavours, and all the other complications to the roster construction rules, exist because MLS has various priorities that act at cross-purposes with each other, and is working with owners that aren't broadly willing to lose seven or eight figures a year indefinitely to bootstrap a soccer league and appreciate being protected from themselves, skeptical broadcasters, a viewing public that largely has other better options, and last-but-definitely-not-least, a veteran player pool (and, crucially for this, a voting majority in the players' union) that, if MLS didn't exist, would mostly now be small-town dentists or car salesmen like 90% of college athletic standouts, not making bank in the global market. You haven't once tried explaining any of this in real detail, actually. Explain to me how allocation money is actually necessary. Explain to me how any of these rules, in practice, end up better than just like a $10m salary cap and nothing else, no loopholes. Or...don't. Because it's asinine and impossible. All you have to say here is "I like watching MLS but it is inherently flawed" and we can stop wasting our time. There's no reason to fabricate justifications for what can't be justified simply because you otherwise like the league. wicka fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 20:27
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Dallan Invictus posted:It's not about the current American players, most of them are a lost cause. It's about the generations rising and to come that need someplace where they can play professionally and competitively, with and against comparatively excellent talent, but where they can also actually get playing time to improve without being shoved to the bench in favour of a Euro/South American player who is already better for a team that needs to win. Canada is finally looking to start its own national domestic league (as opposed to a regional match-fixing front) in the near future and this is explicitly the rationale, and I don't blame the USSF for thinking similarly. I know this, and again, its a dumb idea and it doesn't work. The FMF has done tons of dumb poo poo in the interest of giving Mexican players a place to grow and develop and all it has done is stagnated and regressed the quality of players produced in Mexico. Meanwhile the existence of MLS has meant that loads of other CONCACAF teams have had their players exposed to greater competition than their domestic leagues offered and low and behold, the likes of Costa Rica, Honduras, ETC. have improved drastically over the years. In the next two to three WCQ cycles Mexico is going to fail to qualify and a huge part of the failure of Mexican players to develop is the protectionist policies of the Liga MX. Why Canada and the United States want to double down on that sort of idiocy is beyond me.
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Jan 4, 2017 20:59
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Ciprian Maricon posted:I know this, and again, its a dumb idea and it doesn't work. The FMF has done tons of dumb poo poo in the interest of giving Mexican players a place to grow and develop and all it has done is stagnated and regressed the quality of players produced in Mexico. Meanwhile the existence of MLS has meant that loads of other CONCACAF teams have had their players exposed to greater competition than their domestic leagues offered and low and behold, the likes of Costa Rica, Honduras, ETC. have improved drastically over the years. If we're serious about producing talent then what we really need to be doing is blanketing this country with academies, not gifting roster spots to American players.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:01
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wicka posted:If we're serious about producing talent then what we really need to be doing is blanketing this country with academies, not gifting roster spots to American players. For sure, but in the context of "roster rules" if you want your players to get better exposing them to competition is a far better idea than making it as easy as possible for them to play even if they are garbage.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:06
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Shrapnig posted:Shocked he didn't go to Portland or Seattle tbh. Seattle has a pretty decent left back. If he was a right back that would make more sense for them to pursue him.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:19
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Ciprian Maricon posted:I know this, and again, its a dumb idea and it doesn't work. The FMF has done tons of dumb poo poo in the interest of giving Mexican players a place to grow and develop and all it has done is stagnated and regressed the quality of players produced in Mexico. Meanwhile the existence of MLS has meant that loads of other CONCACAF teams have had their players exposed to greater competition than their domestic leagues offered and low and behold, the likes of Costa Rica, Honduras, ETC. have improved drastically over the years. The thing is that it all needs to fit together. MLS wouldn't have Costa Ricans to poach (well, aside from the ones that immigrate to the US) if Costa Rica didn't have a league where they could play and be seen. Unlike most of CONCACAF (and probably unlike Canada when it starts), MLS and Liga MX could afford to poach entire rosters from out-of-country if they weren't restricted from doing so, and US/Canadian soccer execs are probably looking at the PL and its apparent effect on the English national team as their cautionary tale here, rather than Liga MX (espescially since "soccer" and "England" are basically synonymous among a certain vintage and shade of soccer fan in those countries). I agree that covering the country in academies is probably going to do more in the long run, but even then, why would you play an academy product over an import if you weren't required to and weren't explicitly choosing to? Especially in a North American academy since they mostly, right now, produce really rough talents that need a lot of technical refinement and seasoning? US businesses hate having to train their employees everywhere else, I don't expect soccer to be any different left to its own devices, though maybe you could get away with it in MLS since it doesn't punish losing as harshly as other leagues (for reasons which we all know but I hope we do not need to get into). Competition for places is important, absolutely, but the US is big enough and MLS is small enough that there's no way that competition for places will ever not be a thing. Especially note that, unlike Liga MX's rule, MLS' rule doesn't care if the domestic players actually make the starting 11, so you've still got to compete for that starting spot with Juan/Jean Random, the quota just gets your foot in the door. Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 21:43
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Dallan Invictus posted:I agree that covering the country in academies is probably going to do more in the long run, but even then, why would you play an academy product over an import if you weren't required to and weren't explicitly choosing to? Especially in a North American academy since they mostly, right now, produce really rough talents that need a lot of technical refinement and seasoning? US businesses hate having to train their employees everywhere else, I don't expect soccer to be any different left to its own devices. Then they should produce better academies? Plenty of leagues worldwide manage this just fine, I'm confused as to why you raise it as an issue. It feels like most of your posts are rooted in wanting MLS to already be on the right track, rather than genuinely thinking they are.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:49
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binge crotching posted:Seattle has a pretty decent left back. If he was a right back that would make more sense for them to pursue him. 
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Jan 4, 2017 21:49
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wicka posted:Then they should produce better academies? Plenty of leagues worldwide manage this just fine Well, that depends on your standard of "fine", doesn't it? Most of them don't really have a choice, because there are practical or regulatory reasons they have to produce their own players (various limits on foreign/non-EU players are popular, or not having the money to pay well enough to outbid the non-impoverished soccer-mad countries they're close to, as opposed to the impoverished ones we're close to). Some have a choice and do it well on the level we're talking about, but they have advantages MLS doesn't currently have (mainly being the primary traditional sport in large and/or rich nations), for which the path to getting them is not as easy as waving a magic wand, as the Chinese (who are trying to do the same thing the old fashioned way with the help of billions of dollars of state subsidies) may soon find out when they try to transition their league from "post-Beckham MLS but with all the dollar figures multiplied by 100" to an actual long term concern. quote:I'm confused as to why you raise it as an issue. Mostly because I reflexively contextualize everything, it's a sickness. Obviously we need to improve our academies. But the US is the largest economy in the world. If we had a soccer league to match that and no league restraints on foreign players, we'd have the money to buy teenagers from Brazil long before we could sufficiently train our own teenagers to compete with them, and that league was big enough to need relegation then the incentive would be to pick whoever is currently best, nationalism be damned. quote:It feels like most of your posts are rooted in wanting MLS to already be on the right track, rather than genuinely thinking they are. Conveniently, it feels like most of your posts are rooted in blithely handwaving away the practical reasons why the progress along that track is slower than you want it to be, and assuming that if we just did it like everyone else and ignored the things that are actually different about the American environment today as compared to the rest of the world now, or in the 19th and mid-20th centuries when they got their starts at this, things would work out fine. I do want MLS to succeed (really, I want soccer in North America to succeed and I'm not convinced that if you burned down this system a better one would rise from the ashes in my lifetime, which is my default assumption for all the flawed systems I live with). I do think it's on the right track, or at least one that offers less chance of yet another catastrophic failure than any realistic alternative. I engage in these discussions because 
Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 22:27
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Dallan Invictus posted:US/Canadian soccer execs are probably looking at the PL and its apparent effect on the English national team as their cautionary tale here, rather than Liga MX (espescially since "soccer" and "England" are basically synonymous among a certain vintage and shade of soccer fan in those countries). Why? England is a tiny Island nation that produces an absurd amount of talent relative to its size and fills up some 9 levels worth of a footballing pyramid (the majority of that talent dwarfs what is available in mls), they are something to emulate not be scared of and the idea that the PL has somehow stifled the development of English players is laughable, Cahill, Sterling, Lallana, Henderson, Sturridge, competing in the Premier league against the best the world can offer has done loads to create exceptional players. Protectionist Policy is how Pavel Pardo got over 100+ caps for Mexico. He is garbage, He was so loving garbage he couldn't score in MLS. This is the kind of player MLS will produce if they keep up with this stupidity. Say no to Pavel Pardos, demand better of your loving league and country for Christ's sake. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 23:26
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I'm not reading through all of these paragraphs but I think both sides are overreacting. I think the MLS is on decent path for US talent development except for the loving rapid expansion. The Red Bulls had 12 foreign players on the roster last season, six of which would start under perfect conditions. It's not like the J-league where you can only have 2 internationals and one AFC player and that's that. Everyone knows the real issues here stem from youth soccer, coaching, and facilities not having too many nationals or too few nationals in the league.
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Jan 4, 2017 23:38
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NCAA Soccer will kill MLS if the league continues to think that they can find talent there. If you're playing college soccer in American and are American you'll never be a high level professional in the United States.
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Jan 4, 2017 23:49
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Seltzer posted:I'm not reading through all of these paragraphs but I think both sides are overreacting. I think the MLS is on decent path for US talent development except for the loving rapid expansion. The Red Bulls had 12 foreign players on the roster last season, six of which would start under perfect conditions. It's not like the J-league where you can only have 2 internationals and one AFC player and that's that. Everyone knows the real issues here stem from youth soccer, coaching, and facilities not having too many nationals or too few nationals in the league. It's just baffling to me that the MLS is clearly leaving money on the table in terms of fans who are being pushed away by obviously unnecessary and overly complex rules. It might not be tens of millions of people, but who cares? Every little bit counts. Virtually every other problem MLS has is due to lack of money, which in turn is due to lack of exposure. That's fine, it will come with time as long as they do things correctly. They are not doing things correctly. If these rules are to enforce parity, then why do real MLS payrolls vary between $3m and $20m? Why not abandon everything but the salary cap and set it at a more reasonable figure, like $10m? What are the caveats of this plan, beyond the fact that it doesn't fit into Garber's wet dream of operating like an NFL cargo cult? Shrapnig posted:NCAA Soccer will kill MLS if the league continues to think that they can find talent there. gently caress me, even I can admit that college soccer is almost totally irrelevant. The SuperDraft, yet another superfluous MLS league function. Just let the four kids each year who are good enough sign wherever they want.
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Jan 4, 2017 23:51
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Trophy Look at this list since 2000 for fucks sake. These are players who were voted the BEST PLAYER IN US COLLEGE SOCCER for a given year. It's embarrassing .
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Jan 4, 2017 23:57
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Why? England is a tiny Island nation that produces an absurd amount of talent relative to its size and fills up some 9 levels worth of a footballing pyramid (the majority of that talent dwarfs what is available in mls), they are something to emulate not be scared of and the idea that the PL has somehow stifled the development of English players is laughable, Cahill, Sterling, Lallana, Henderson, Sturridge, competing in the Premier league against the best the world can offer has done loads to create exceptional players. It's a tiny island with 1/6th of our population with a density of 1100/sq mi compared to our 90/sq mi. We have 5 major professional sports and they have 1. They have talent because it's literally all they do. In the age old, tired argument, what would we have in this country is our best athletes played soccer? We'd dominate them like most other sports on the planet.
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Jan 5, 2017 00:17
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Shrapnig posted:NCAA Soccer will kill MLS if the league continues to think that they can find talent there. They don't think they can consistently find talent there, as evidenced by the fact that outside the like five of them that end up in GA the rest of a given year's draft class is at best an outside shot and GMs, knowing this, value draft picks in trades approximately as highly as a bag of balls. Someday it will die. In the meantime you occasionally get a Cyle Larin and the league still wants to give bad teams/expansion teams a leg up for next year, so here we are. Decent academies don't yet exist all over the country and, while they don't, there's no reason to COMPLETELY ignore the NCAA. Just do it all via a conference call and stop trying to hype it, I agree with you that far. It's never going to be an event like the NFL draft but frankly I don't understand why the NFL draft is an event so, yaknow, here we are. Ciprian Maricon posted:Why? England is a tiny Island nation that produces an absurd amount of talent relative to its size and fills up some 9 levels worth of a footballing pyramid (the majority of that talent dwarfs what is available in mls), they are something to emulate not be scared of and the idea that the PL has somehow stifled the development of English players is laughable, Cahill, Sterling, Lallana, Henderson, Sturridge, competing in the Premier league against the best the world can offer has done loads to create exceptional players. The argument is that, despite all this (though I'd say that only the top 2 or 3 levels of the English pyramid would utterly dwarf MLS talent), the fact that England constantly fails internationally is down to failing at the step of turning all that talent into Actually Good Senior Players (as compared to, say, Germany or Spain who are the usual comparisons). There are probably other reasons (more good coaches, more focus on technique as opposed to merely hard work, and less tradition-bound administration), but I'm a firm believer in Playing Your Kids when possible so I guess I have my biases here. Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 00:18
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wicka posted:Then they should produce better academies? Plenty of leagues worldwide manage this just fine, I'm confused as to why you raise it as an issue. It feels like most of your posts are rooted in wanting MLS to already be on the right track, rather than genuinely thinking they are. Teams definitely have invested in the academies, I know RSL's owner has spent millions on setting up academy programs probably because he realizes it is loving hard to convince people to move to loving Utah and they have had some successful looking players a Mexican guy from their academy I think just signed and is starting for Fiorentina, I mean not the best Italian team, but a pretty good one. Yedlin went through the Sounders academy (briefly) and seems to be doing pretty well for Newcastle. Dallas has churned out something like twenty homegrowns and they are a big reason why their team is doing alright. Likewise having the USL affiliation means some guys who are 18/19/20 and maybe aren't ready yet to crack an MLS roster means they have a place they can play and train with professionals instead of playing lovely NCAA soccer or sitting on the MLS reserves for years till they get cut or they fuckoff to Azerbaijan or some poo poo and everyone forgets they exist. Some teams have done jack poo poo with their academies and developing players *cough* Portland *cough* however those are the exceptions and Atlanta dropped a few million into setting up their academy before their team started playing. Personally I think the league is on the right track and while the salary rules are goofy and should be reformed, the teams and players definitely seem to be trending upwards from where they were just a few years ago. I think the big thing holding the league back is the people joining now want to splash the cash, but there are still entire teams owned by lovely capital investment teams who are just treading water while their investment appreciates (Chicago, Rev's, DC United). One thing I would like to see is for transfer fee's not to count against the salary cap on player contracts, that way we could maybe actually bring in players not on Free Transfers. B.B. Rodriguez posted:It's a tiny island with 1/6th of our population with a density of 1100/sq mi compared to our 90/sq mi. We have 5 major professional sports and they have 1. They have talent because it's literally all they do. In the age old, tired argument, what would we have in this country is our best athletes played soccer? We'd dominate them like most other sports on the planet. Sort of the league would probably be better if guys who went on to be lovely (in a specific way to that sport) NFL/NBA guys actually played soccer instead. Dallan Invictus posted:They don't think they can consistently find talent there, as evidenced by the fact that outside the like five of them that end up in GA the rest of a given year's draft class is at best an outside shot and GMs, knowing this, value draft picks in trades approximately as highly as a bag of balls. I don't think League One dwarfs MLS talent, I think many MLS sides could do alright in the Championship I mean they wouldn't get close to winning however I think plenty would hold their own. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 01:02
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The Timbers signed Roy Miller 
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Jan 5, 2017 01:15
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If laughter is the best medicine Caleb Porter will make me immortal.
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Jan 5, 2017 01:24
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Jack2142 posted:I don't think League One dwarfs MLS talent, I think many MLS sides could do alright in the Championship I mean they wouldn't get close to winning however I think plenty would hold their own. Yes but have you considered stuff like this: MLS bad, lmao that Roy Miller still has a job in this league.
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Jan 5, 2017 04:10
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Yes but have you considered stuff like this: The Portland Timbers are in the poo poo team pile that would get relegated so this is a par for the course signing for them. Ciprian Maricon posted:Yes but have you considered stuff like this: The truly insane thing is Roy Miller has 59 caps with the 17th ranked National Team. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 04:57
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Just wait until you see FC Dallas new player and drunk driving aficionado Jose Salvatierra, that was a bad signing.Jack2142 posted:The truly insane thing is Roy Miller has 59 caps with the 17th ranked National Team. Yeah insane that the team achieved such a high ranking in spite of him. Fortunately he is no longer relevant so probably won't be capped anymore.
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Jan 5, 2017 05:19
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 02:49 |
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Since the lower-league thread is basically just three of us posting: It looks like - as of tonight - the NASL is actually going to survive thanks in no small part to the USL's greed. Unbelievable.
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Jan 5, 2017 05:22
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