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Invisible Handjob posted:"Deep state" sounds like the ramblings of a person desperate to believe there is order and a plan to the universe. If such a thing existed and was against Trump he never would have been elected. The term doesn't mean what you seem to think it means. You can call it the military-industrial-intelligence complex if you want, but no they're not going to coup Trump lol. There might be a lot of bureaucratic infighting though.
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Dec 12, 2016 21:07
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Squalid posted:The term deep state was created to refer to the network within the Turkish government responsible for the nation's numerous coups and military conspiracies, and is useful for describing circumstances in several other states like Greece for example prior to the establishment of its military junta in the late 1960s. The analogy becomes very tenuous however when extended to the United States. I disagree, but this thread's premise is pointless anyway so whatever.
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Dec 12, 2016 22:49
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Main Paineframe posted:"Deep state" has a lot of meanings, all of which boil down to "the shadowy conspiracy that a) secretly controls the country from the shadows regardless of who the nominal leader is, or b) is secretly responsible for all dissent against our country's glorious leader and is constantly scheming to undermine or overthrow our great government". It's basically a genericized conspiracy theory. In places like Egypt or Turkey, it generally holds meaning B, while in the US it usually is used for meaning A. That's a simplistic and moronic view. Mike Lofgren wrote an excellent book on this, here's an excerpt: http://billmoyers.com/2014/02/21/anatomy-of-the-deep-state/ quote:My analysis of this phenomenon is not an exposé of a secret, conspiratorial cabal; the state within a state is hiding mostly in plain sight, and its operators mainly act in the light of day. Nor can this other government be accurately termed an “establishment.” All complex societies have an establishment, a social network committed to its own enrichment and perpetuation. In terms of its scope, financial resources and sheer global reach, the American hybrid state, the Deep State, is in a class by itself. That said, it is neither omniscient nor invincible. The institution is not so much sinister (although it has highly sinister aspects) as it is relentlessly well entrenched. Far from being invincible, its failures, such as those in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, are routine enough that it is only the Deep State’s protectiveness towards its higher-ranking personnel that allows them to escape the consequences of their frequent ineptitude.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:07
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Main Paineframe posted:Of course they do. Claiming that those undemocratic elements are secretly colluding in a largely-unknown shadow government that controls everything in the country, on the other hand, is absolutely a conspiracy theory. Have you ever posted in good faith in your life?
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Dec 12, 2016 23:48
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