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Olesh
Aug 4, 2008

Why did the circus close?

A long, chilling list of animal rights violations.
Binding of Isaac is a faster game with a slower game loop.

The basic game loop - shoot enemies, dodge bullets - is faster paced in Gungeon. Enemies shoot faster, fire more bullets, your bullets travel faster, and you have an invincible dodge roll you're expected to use and use well in order to avoid damage.

However, outside that basic game loop, Binding of Isaac is a faster game in every way. Individual rooms take only seconds to traverse, meaning that even the longest amount of backtracking through the entire floor doesn't take very long in practice. While Gungeon has small rooms, the majority of rooms tend to be on the larger side, including multiple waves of enemies that sometimes spawn partway through the previous wave. Isaac is far more prolific with pickups, and guarantees you at least two upgrades every floor (The Item Room and the Boss Reward), while only requiring a single key tax per floor past the first floor to access them. In Isaac, if you've taken all your guaranteed upgrade opportunities, you'll have 12 items and have spent 5 keys by the time you reach the original boss of the game (which is frequently done in less than twenty minutes. Could you imagine reaching the Dragun in 20 minutes on a regular basis? No, you probably can not).

In Isaac, I could play a couple full rounds of Isaac back to back and completed in an hour, or have a run of lovely games and probably get an "easy" run where I stumble into a very powerful item that lets me steamroll the rest of the game. In Gungeon, from start to killing the Dragun is about an hour on average, longer if I don't get much in the way of useful upgrades (or possibly much shorter, if I die due to not getting useful upgrades).


I like Enter the Gungeon. I like it enough that I played it to the point where, six months plus of not playing it later, I could sit down and still start the game and kill the Dragun in one shot without anything special in terms of item drops. But the game could have been tuned and tweaked to be far more fun and more accessible to newer players.

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dscruffy1
Nov 22, 2007

Look out!
Nap Ghost
I'm going to go ahead and call the poll closed, the next Gungeoneer will be the Hunter. I'll probably record tomorrow, assuming I don't get overwhelmed by crippling depression!

White Coke
May 29, 2015

dscruffy1 posted:

I'll probably record tomorrow, assuming I don't get overwhelmed by crippling depression!

And so another LP ends, cut down before it's time.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011
Lol if you think crippling depression is anything outta the ordinary for anyone on these forums, this subforum especially.

Just take it easy dscruffy and remember to live life for the things you enjoy.

HenryEx
Mar 25, 2009

...your cybernetic implants, the only beauty in that meat you call "a body"...
Grimey Drawer
I was really big into this for a while after release and then burned out pretty hard. We'll see if the upcoming dlc can rekindle the flame.

I'll say that the game gets much more casual when you activate a cheat script to give you a random drop after every room cleared, instead of every ten or so. More ammo to go around, lots of health lying around to smooth the learning curve, keys to find new exciting weapons with...


Looking forward to the next video, featuring the best character, as a palate cleanser from the worst character

HenryEx posted:

Me, every time i play the pilot:

http://i.imgur.com/U9oMUhX.gifv

I loving hate that gun :argh:

pumpinglemma
Apr 28, 2009

DD: Fondly regard abomination.

HenryEx posted:

I was really big into this for a while after release and then burned out pretty hard. We'll see if the upcoming dlc can rekindle the flame.

I'll say that the game gets much more casual when you activate a cheat script to give you a random drop after every room cleared, instead of every ten or so. More ammo to go around, lots of health lying around to smooth the learning curve, keys to find new exciting weapons with...


Looking forward to the next video, featuring the best character, as a palate cleanser from the worst character
Wait, do you mean the supply drop update (which is basically already out if you opt in to the beta branch), or is there some paid DLC on the way that I've missed?

Sjs00
Jun 29, 2013

Yeah Baby Yeah !
I kinda want to know more about that cheat script.
Also that gif makes me feel better about my skill level but I still want to cheat

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011
Jesus

the thing that amazes me the most is just not plain using cover or dodging at all; wildly firing is fine-ish but the former are unforgivable

Nalesh
Jun 9, 2010

What did the grandma say to the frog?

Something racist, probably.

HenryEx posted:

I was really big into this for a while after release and then burned out pretty hard. We'll see if the upcoming dlc can rekindle the flame.

I'll say that the game gets much more casual when you activate a cheat script to give you a random drop after every room cleared, instead of every ten or so. More ammo to go around, lots of health lying around to smooth the learning curve, keys to find new exciting weapons with...


Looking forward to the next video, featuring the best character, as a palate cleanser from the worst character

I forgot about that gif :allears:


Speaking of gifs, have this from the op of the gungeon thread, the regular bullet dies too fast to usually see this:

Nalesh fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Jan 5, 2017

HenryEx
Mar 25, 2009

...your cybernetic implants, the only beauty in that meat you call "a body"...
Grimey Drawer

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Jesus

the thing that amazes me the most is just not plain using cover or dodging at all; wildly firing is fine-ish but the former are unforgivable
I mean

you can see my cross hair in the gif, it's almost always right on an enemy, not really firing "wildly"


(I was more concerned with keeping my character and crosshair in a small 550x420 pixel recording window than dodging enemy shots :v: )

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011
Also playing ins Deutsch. Meine Götter!

(Ah arright!)


Still, not using cover early on is something that the OP does too, but if you get your dodges down it's not super important but early on especially it can be fairly useful

HenryEx
Mar 25, 2009

...your cybernetic implants, the only beauty in that meat you call "a body"...
Grimey Drawer
Well, i usually take the option if i have it. The translation's not too great, but that's because the original is insanely hellish to translate since almost everything has a double meaning or some kind of pun.


(Although there's one point where the translation improves on it, Gatling Gull is called the "Gatling-Gans" which sacrifices the correct genus of bird for a dead ringer homonym on guns. Gatling Guns :neckbeard:)

dscruffy1
Nov 22, 2007

Look out!
Nap Ghost
Good news, I made a recording. Expect a video in the next day or two, whenever I finish editing! (it's not much editing but the encoding still takes a fair amount of time)

LashLightning
Feb 20, 2010

You know you didn't have to go post that, right?
But it's fine, I guess...

You just keep being you!

Nalesh posted:

Speaking of gifs, have this from the op of the gungeon thread, the regular bullet dies too fast to usually see this:



What the gundead lack in skill they make up for in enthusiasm, from the looks of it.

LashLightning fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Jan 5, 2017

Fabricated
Apr 9, 2007

Living the Dream
I just watched what is the definition of a "filthy lucker" run; the guy should've went out and bought a lottery ticket afterwards. He saw stuff that if the odds I saw are correct we almost certainly won't see in this entire LP even if it goes dozens of videos.

Zoig
Oct 31, 2010

Okay I have to ask, I'm not the only one who noticed that the pilots bullets were flying at near right angles from the crosshair in that gif, right? Because I feel like its being glossed over and I know that's not normal.

Choco1980
Feb 22, 2013

I fell in love with a Video Nasty

Zoig posted:

Okay I have to ask, I'm not the only one who noticed that the pilots bullets were flying at near right angles from the crosshair in that gif, right? Because I feel like its being glossed over and I know that's not normal.

I think the bullets are deflecting off of tables and bookshelves for that effect.

Zoig
Oct 31, 2010

Nah, they come out the front almost sideways, I think its probably something whoever made the gif added in. Looks pretty silly though, and it would explain how hes missing a whole crowd of bulletkin when all you would need to do to hit is fire in their general direction.

SloppyDoughnuts
Apr 9, 2010

I set fire to the rain watched it pour as I touched your face
No, they can rarely fire that off-target like in the gif. Doesn't usually go on that long though. The Pilot's gun is REALLY bad.

e: His gun is as much a Han Solo reference as his design is.

senrath
Nov 4, 2009

Look Professor, a destruct switch!


I thought it would only do that with a -accuracy item, not by default.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Most guns in the game feature bullet spread to some degree, but the Pilot's sidearm has it to a ridiculous degree. To the point where you can reenact that scene from Pulp Fiction without even trying.

The idea with the Pilot, is that he's supposed to start off weak, but thanks to his lockpicks and passive store discount, wind up as one of the more powerful characters. In practice, however, well...

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

Kaboom Dragoon posted:

Most guns in the game feature bullet spread to some degree, but the Pilot's sidearm has it to a ridiculous degree. To the point where you can reenact that scene from Pulp Fiction without even trying.

The idea with the Pilot, is that he's supposed to start off weak, but thanks to his lockpicks and passive store discount, wind up as one of the more powerful characters. In practice, however, well...

I don't understand why you would ever use the lockpicks unless you were at the end of a floor and had no keys. 50% is too low to risk unless you're totally out of options.

Zoig
Oct 31, 2010

Huh, it really can do that? Never had it happen myself but that does explain a lot.

Also these videos have been rather helpful in allowing me to get better at this, so I guess they are working. Still haven't gotten past the black powder mines more than once though.

Sloober
Apr 1, 2011

Grapplejack posted:

I don't understand why you would ever use the lockpicks unless you were at the end of a floor and had no keys. 50% is too low to risk unless you're totally out of options.

It's worthwhile on brown chests you may already feel iffy about opening with a key.

pumpinglemma
Apr 28, 2009

DD: Fondly regard abomination.

I sometimes use it for blue chests too if I only have one key left, just in case the shop on the next floor has a lock on it or something. It's also very useful if you're limited on keys for some reason, like needing to save up for the Prime Primer.

dscruffy1
Nov 22, 2007

Look out!
Nap Ghost

pumpinglemma posted:

I sometimes use it for blue chests too if I only have one key left, just in case the shop on the next floor has a lock on it or something. It's also very useful if you're limited on keys for some reason, like needing to save up for the Prime Primer.

Another reason I'd find the lockpicks fairly useful is for unlocking shortcuts. We haven't unlocked the guy that builds them yet, but he usually wants a lot of casings and a lot of keys to build his shortcuts. And in one case he wants a lot of junk, which you can only get by destroying chests.

pumpinglemma
Apr 28, 2009

DD: Fondly regard abomination.

dscruffy1 posted:

Another reason I'd find the lockpicks fairly useful is for unlocking shortcuts. We haven't unlocked the guy that builds them yet, but he usually wants a lot of casings and a lot of keys to build his shortcuts. And in one case he wants a lot of junk, which you can only get by destroying chests.
I was trying to be circumspect about that, but I guess if you're saying it then it's OK. :)

dscruffy1
Nov 22, 2007

Look out!
Nap Ghost
It's time for THE HUNTER'S PAST awww yeah.

The Hunter's Past/Polsy

Also! Vote! Vote for the next past to be killed! Remember what the Gungeon says, voting is cool!

Green Intern
Dec 29, 2008

Loon, Crazy and Laughable

I've been getting back into this game since the Supply Drop patch hit the beta branch, so I'm real glad to see this LP. I am so so bad at this game.

dscruffy1
Nov 22, 2007

Look out!
Nap Ghost

Green Intern posted:

I've been getting back into this game since the Supply Drop patch hit the beta branch, so I'm real glad to see this LP. I am so so bad at this game.

I haven't touched the beta at all, I only know a few of the drops and some of the new enemies. I am looking forward to seeing all new things when I hit them in the LP.

Vorpal Cat
Mar 19, 2009

Oh god what did I just post?

dscruffy1 posted:

I haven't touched the beta at all, I only know a few of the drops and some of the new enemies. I am looking forward to seeing all new things when I hit them in the LP.

I don't want to spoil anything but, after looking up the new guns and passives on the wiki, there's some fun stuff in there. Also for everyone who felt that gungeon runs were a little too long there's now a save and quit button at the end of every floor so you can come back later.

Choco1980
Feb 22, 2013

I fell in love with a Video Nasty
I was thinking while you were talking about this game vs isaac, and it occurs to me that isaac has been around for YEARS now, and there are a lot of people who have been playing it for a very long time. I think their skill creep and unlock creep have both gone up enough that they're a lot better now than when they started, but it's been long enough they forgot how hard the game is at first for new players. You keep unlocking stuff that makes me think this game has a pretty similar difficulty curve to it, and if you can get the hang of the game mechanics, it's no worse to git gud with.

Also, I always love when you have those close calls that make you do the little high pitched giggle.

dscruffy1
Nov 22, 2007

Look out!
Nap Ghost

Choco1980 posted:

Also, I always love when you have those close calls that make you do the little high pitched giggle.

It's one of the benefits of me doing live commentary, I tend to nervously giggle when I'm in dire straits. See: pretty much the entire The Evil Within playthrough.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011
Man, I got such a kick of nostalgia from the Wolfenstein boss, though I don't get why he wasn't Mecha-Mussolini or Monster of the WereMag or something or what it has to do with the hunter.

I'm curious, do you always do live? Do you ever think of doing post? I'd think a game that requires a lot of attention would be kinda ideal for post.

dscruffy1
Nov 22, 2007

Look out!
Nap Ghost

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Man, I got such a kick of nostalgia from the Wolfenstein boss, though I don't get why he wasn't Mecha-Mussolini or Monster of the WereMag or something or what it has to do with the hunter.

I'm curious, do you always do live? Do you ever think of doing post? I'd think a game that requires a lot of attention would be kinda ideal for post.

I'm recording the episodes for the LP as it goes along, but no, I don't always live. I just had a run today on my main file that ended like this!

Green Intern
Dec 29, 2008

Loon, Crazy and Laughable

Vorpal Cat posted:

I don't want to spoil anything but, after looking up the new guns and passives on the wiki, there's some fun stuff in there. Also for everyone who felt that gungeon runs were a little too long there's now a save and quit button at the end of every floor so you can come back later.

The save feature being added in like that makes me respect the devs a whole lot. Just dropping in a feature that wasn't originally planned based on community feedback is a real swell thing to do.

I never got far enough in the original version of Gungeon to really notice any differences, but I do feel like I'm getting more money even when I'm playing kind of crappy.

Samovar
Jun 4, 2011

I'm 😤 not a 🦸🏻‍♂️hero...🧜🏻



If yer having difficulty on subjects to talk on, perhaps guest commentators?

Edit: Daedalus was the father, Icarus was the doomed son.

Edit edit: Can you get more than one secret room?

Edit edit edit: a nice touch about the split-shot bulletkin; when they die, they split apart, like a dum-dum.

Samovar fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jan 6, 2017

Felinoid
Mar 8, 2009

Marginally better than Shepard's dancing. 2/10
One thing that should definitely get mentioned is the sound design. It's pretty good in general, and in particular my favorite bit is that there's a particular distinct "tch" sound that happens when any enemy dies. Thanks to that sound I knew scruffy had killed the caped bulletkin (despite it being offscreen) about half a minute before he did, because I heard it twice when he fired in the direction of a single enemy and the caped guy. Distinct audio cues like that are incredibly valuable, and far too often overlooked when evaluating games.

Samovar
Jun 4, 2011

I'm 😤 not a 🦸🏻‍♂️hero...🧜🏻



Hang on, doesn't double-action mean that the recoil of the powder exploding push the hammer of the gun back? So you can fire without having to pull it back manually, like with an SAAC?

Samovar fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Jan 6, 2017

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Atomikus
Jun 4, 2010

Muncie? Muncie! MUNCIE!

Samovar posted:

Hang on, doesn't double-action mean that the recoil of the powder exploding push the hammer of the gun back? So you can fire without having to pull it back manually, like with an SAAC?

That's semi-automatic. Double action means that pulling the trigger does two things (three in the case of revolvers), such as pulling back the hammer (which rotates the cylinder on most revolvers) and then releasing it rather than just releasing the hammer.

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