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Sloober
Apr 1, 2011

dscruffy1 posted:

I'm interested to hear how you make out continuing onwards. What killed you on the second floor? I'm assuming you entered with two full hearts.


I feel like that's a pretty fair commentary. I can't think of too many things that allow you to get around RNG in this game. You usually have a pretty good idea of what you'll get out of a chest quality-wise, but there's only so many chests you can get. A lot of this game revolves around...well, git gud or die, for lack of better phrasing. The only reward for playing well is either more casings for clearing rooms or more health in the case of bosses. It's entirely up to skill or muscle memory or reaction time as to whether or not you can make it to lower floors.

I don't know, there's some really good stuff out of brown chests, and really bad stuff out of higher ones. So it's not really internally consistent regarding the actual relative power of items in chests. I haven't played in a while but there was a bunch of stuff that was just not any good despite being out of the higher chest levels. Also for real what killed my interest in playing was the aforementioned enemy sponge factor. It wants to be a quick high intensity game but it counters it with spongey as gently caress stuff, and half the time i just get boss fatigue while fighting them and get careless. They could slash the spongey stuff's health by half and the game would just get better.

JEBOman posted:

Except that would make the muncher a newbie trap. Each time you use it, you decrease your maximum ammo pool. So by trying to get better equipment (even only a few times), you can make your run unwinnable.

- Without having played the game myself.

Ammo boxes can be extremely rare so munching your empty guns up can be one of the few sources of ammo you get (even if it is in a brand new gun)

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Sloober
Apr 1, 2011

Nalesh posted:

Helix gets hilarious at 3 or 4 pop pop stacks.

To be fair everything does

Even the lowercase L is not bad if it is literally making GBS threads bullets

Sloober
Apr 1, 2011
I think it's easiest to say both games have their issues; they're incredibly different games to me. Isaac is typically incremental upgrades, Gungeon is massive power swings as you find a really good gun, subsequently run out of ammo, and don't find any ammo boxes, meanwhile enemy health continues to inflate for some godawful reason so your back up poo poo gun is now even shittier and gently caress this game is luck based fun.

Isaac resolves quicker, there are few outright trash items (Tiny Planet and Soymilk not withstanding) and is much faster paced.

Like for real I would like gungeon so much more if they just chopped enemy health down a fair amount. I get really bored with slogs. Like i'm not the greatest at it but I have beaten it a few times. I just don't have the patience to deal with it a lot of the time, so my runs end early

Sloober
Apr 1, 2011

Ashsaber posted:

Expect to see opinions turn more towards Gungeon being more fair than Isaac for a little while at least. The latest expansion for Isaac just came out and made people ask whether the devs understood balance at all.

My thoughts on the matter of Isaac or Gungeon being more fair... I don't think I've ever hit floor 4 in Gugeon, but have over 100 hours in Isaac, so take this with a grain of salt: Gungeon gives you a dodge roll and expects you to use it constantly. Things are much more hectic, and nearly impossible to deal with unless you know when and how to use your roll (I do not have that down). Gungeon runs are long, all of Scruffy's videos so far are ~1 hour long, while my runs of Isaac are rarely more than 40 minutes unless I find a room where I can grind for loot in the chapters after the time cutoff is done (there's a boss rush where you can get extra items if you complete floor 6 within 20 minutes), and I still explore the entire floor for the floors where that matters.

I feel Isaac is more newbie friendly (before this expansion) because even if you're not the best player you can get a lucky drop that carries you through the game and allows you to unlock new stuff, while in Gungeon if you get a really amazing gun it will carry you until your ammo runs out, and then be dead weight unless you get a lucky ammo drop you can use on it. Also unlocks are largely tied to Hegemony credits, and those you only get one or two for the first boss, so if you're like me and can't reliably beat the second boss (or even the first) it takes a long rear end time to unlock a reasonable amount of anything.

Everyone knows edmund mcmillen doesn't understand balance already.


Vorpal Cat posted:

There are passives from regular chest drops that can give you more health, and you can unlock more in the store. That's what all those heart bottle and hear lunchbox items due. There's even at least one gun that gives you an extra heart as long as its in your inventory. Once you unlock a few get good at flawlessness the first floor bosses not having enough max health isn't really a big problem anymore.


To be fair the creepy skulls over your head whenever you pick up a cursed item are at least a hint that something is off about those items. And you should start seeing tons of jammed enemies long before you hit 10 curse. Unless you suddenly decided to go on a shopping spree at Cursilla's and get 7.5+ curse all in go.

Extra hearts are fairly rare outside of master rounds even with a bunch unlocked. IMO extra hearts are only going to be valuable to 'bad' players by virtue of coming filled in, as health drops are fairly rare in the game.

Sloober
Apr 1, 2011

Grapplejack posted:

I don't understand why you would ever use the lockpicks unless you were at the end of a floor and had no keys. 50% is too low to risk unless you're totally out of options.

It's worthwhile on brown chests you may already feel iffy about opening with a key.

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