Kilano posted:

I dont think the poor are privileged regardless of their race. I grew up poor and i'd take virtually anything else over being poor.

Kilano posted:

No, that's not what I said.

I said being poor is one of the worst possible situations you can have. If you are both non-white and poor, that's an even bigger disadvantage.

I do think it's ridiculous to say people living in poverty, even white, are "privileged"

blowfish posted:

This. To a person who doesn't spend their day worrying about social injustices, "privileged" means "is a rich gently caress with a Lambo parked in front of dad's 10000 sqft holiday home", not "slightly less oppressed than some other poor fuckers".

Neurolimal posted:

For the record, I don't think its a bad term, just that recent usage has been poisoning it.

Neurolimal posted:

Like I mentioned in the previous post, it's been exploited by those who wish to silence or supress the concerns of the impoverished. This puts it in an unfavorable view to all parties; fiscal leftists, alt-right (who tend to have deplorable social views and reasonable fiscal), and centrists.

It's a solid term for explaining how black americans are at an inherent disadvantage, but its recent usage as a battering ram against other leftist topics are making it less acceptable by others; in this sense those who wish to cultivate leftist infighting are just as guilty of regressing social causes as any right-wing movement.

Neurolimal posted:

The issue is that you can't just turn your nose up and denigrate them for choosing survival over virtue. A lot of dems are opting to double down on shaming these people for not voting ir voting trump, rather than considering the idea of presenting both social and fiscal leftism.

quote:

It happened constantly during the primary (when it seemed like Hillary could win without respecting poor voters), then happened quite a bit after the election, and now is only brought up in places without dissenting voices.

Neurolimal posted:

It was a minor point at best in her campaign. She actively ignored the states and towns most ravaged by the current state of affairs, and downplayed fiscal topics the moment the primary was over. As Chuck Schumer said: “For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”

quote:

You never encountered the constant arguments that New Deal's outcome meant that fiscal leftists couldn't be trusted to support social leftism? What about "Breaking up the banks wont end racism"? Jokes about 'economic anxiety' early after the election whenever it was suggested that racism didn't sweep trump into the office? Damning rust belt voters who didnt turn out as being privileged/racist for not bein energized and enthusiastic about the idea of voting for Hillary whenever anyone suggested she was at fault?

silence_kit posted:

I assume that social justice proponents' vision of an ideal society would be that everybody would get treated the way rich/white/male/etc people are treated now. The new normal at least would be more like that than having everyone be treated in the same way that poor/black/female/etc people are now. It could be argued that 'privilege' isn't a great term because 'privilege' shouldn't be a privilege and should just be normal.

silence_kit posted:

IMO, privilege is an effective term only if you think it is effective to shame people into acting in different ways. Whether that's effective is debatable. In your defense, it is used in many sects of Christianity and is at least somewhat effective.


This is just more of that George W Bush thinking: "you're either with us or against us."

silence_kit posted:

Lol, your reading comprehension is certainly below normal.

Rakosi posted:

You keep making a point of asking why you should moderate your language, but I ask you why you don't. What is it you think the word gets across that cannot possibly conveyed in a less antagonistic or patronizing sense? Effective language, and all.

Pharohman777 posted:

This is a perfect exaple of how insulting 'check your privilege' has become:
http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/12/check-your-privilege-cards-are-the-best-gift.html

The cards say, "Uh-oh, your privilege is showing" "You got this card because your privilege allowed to to make a comment others cannot agree with or relate to"

Apparently they are supposed to be given out if someone says something 'privileged'. The article even says 'the gift of self-awareness is forever'.

This is the sort of thing that infuriates people, saying something, and then getting 'check your privilege' as a response, as if that ends the conversation in any meaningful way.

Rush Limbo posted:

The DM, because they failed their saving throw vs. basic human interaction and therefore are unable to speak or mount any sort of defense or dialogue with the person who gave them the card. It's not their fault that they're unable to engage in a meaningful discussion, the card's +10 to dampening was just too strong.

Pharohman777 posted:

I don't want those people to take the 'privilege' of avoiding police brutality away from me.

Rakosi posted:

That is at odds to


Hmm, maybe your theory of privilege doesn't mean the same to everyone on even your side of the equation.

Crowsbeak posted:

Here's a suggestion why don't you ask some white male workers at walmart working the night shift if they feel privileged.

Pharohman777 posted:

The underlying problem is that Privilege's common, non-academic definition is so negative that being labled 'privileged' in the common definition is insulting.

Pharohman777 posted:

Well using the word 'Privilege' implies super-special opportunity no one else can have,

Pharohman777 posted:

Tell that to the white people employed at wal-mart, and see how they react.
I bet you are going to get a bunch more Alt-right people if you do that.

Tesseraction posted:

Bullshit. I demand to know what question or phrase I need to ask someone in order to make them a Communist.

Call Me Charlie posted:

Can you seriously not comprehend how divisive this line of thought is? People struggling to eek out an existence should feel ashamed because they have the privilege to be exploited and abused by a multinational corporation.

Rakosi posted:

Answer my question. In my scenario is the white guy or the black guy more privileged? If this is such an accurate academic term it should be easy to answer this.

Rakosi posted:

No, I am attacking your perception of privilege as a white man thing by asking you to think about dichotomies that challenge that association.

Rakosi posted:

You guys might want to communicate to the alt-right that being white doesn't necessarily make you privileged anymore. Because that is actually news for probably quite a lot of them.

Edit after BarbarianElephant: Scrap that, maybe it does after all! You wacky liberals.

Call Me Charlie posted:

It's a loaded term that's used to marginalize a person's struggles. And you can try to claim that's not the way you meant to use it but it doesn't change that fact.

quote:

To call people who are stuck in a minimum wage job at part-time hours privileged (because of the color of their skin or the genitalia between their legs) is beyond ridiculous. Of course they'd react badly to that statement. You're belittling everything they're going through.

Pharohman777 posted:

So saying that a white guy is 'fortunate' 'lucky' or 'advantaged' just because he could get a minimum wage job is not supposed to be insulting? Because to that person, you are telling them that their position as a position as a poorly-paid worker is somehow a privilege he has that Ben Carson or the hispanic guy who owns his own business do not have.
Yeah, he should feel thankful for the 'Privilege' that gave him the only job he could find, its too bad all the other minorities he sees in the media have better jobs than him, they dont have his massive privilege at all, what with his lovely car and minimum wage job this 'privilege' got him.

Crowsbeak posted:

Pharohman777 posted:

Who What Now, I really loving despise you for not seeing how insulting everything you are saying is for white people with minimum wage jobs.

Telling them that their lovely situation is the result of privilege is not going to make them suddenly thankful for any 'privileges' they have, real or not. It is going make them tell you to gently caress off for saying they should be aware of all the other people who never got the opportunities to be in their lovely position and they are somehow advantaged because they are living paycheck-to-paycheck, with a lovely apartment.

Crowsbeak posted:

But their not going to care, if their life is lovely.

Crowsbeak posted:

No the point is for you to feel smug about being woke.

Nude Bog Lurker posted:

Okay, but now imagine that you're speaking to actual human beings.

Crowsbeak posted:

Yeah or maybe I do want to stop police shootings

BarbarianElephant posted:

I've never heard it except sarcastically.

Nerses IV posted:

Where exactly is your "real world," in which you hear terms like "check your privilege" used with absolute seriousness?

Call Me Charlie posted:

I don't know. Telling the dumb assholes at Walmart that their white privilege allows them to work such a terrible job can't go wrong. If they have some sort of baggage (like crippling poverty) that won't allow them to take a simple statement in stride, they probably weren't going to be an ally anyways.

Fados posted:

There is only so much space for dumb idetity politics and the right are surely better at it

Fados posted:

The ones that have no practical function other than to censure arguments and gain the moral highground

Fados posted:

http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/12/check-your-privilege-cards-are-the-best-gift.html

Fados posted:

Every race in america is victim of police brutality tho, everyone should be able to get on board with that, so even in that case they are doing themselves a disservice by framing it as a race problem.