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One of the things I have seen in a community that is half alt-right/half-exiled progressive is that the constant calls for ideological purity and hatred of the Cis White Male as well as differing levels of value that people place racism/sexism issues on creates a lot of exiles in the progressive community. People who suddenly lost a lot of friends because of their view on allowing Milo Yiannopolus to speak, or other thorny issues radical progressives scream about. The tension between the rule of law/freedom of speech/how harmful speech is/presumption of innocence and progressive ideology is also a thing that gets people tossed out of progressive circles. The circular firing squad of the left makes a lot of political exiles that join up with right-leaning groups that are in strict opposition to the radical progressives. Gamergate ended up making a whole lot of these mixed communities, opposed to the absurd demands of the far left. These groups end up getting the disillusioned young people who see the absurd demands made by the radicals on the left and go the other way.
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Dec 20, 2016 00:29
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Commie NedFlanders posted:It's because they have thicker skin. Liberals are really fast to block people and create ineffective echo chambers that are self soothing but prevent the crucial self criticism necessary to build ideological discipline. Yeah, the moment some progressive responds to a person providing a counterpoint with a 'you are blocked', most people give the victory to the person who was blocked. Its a point of pride on twitter for the alt-right when their lengthy twitter response to a radical progressive view is blocked, instead of the progressive actually engaging in debate and conversation. And to people who dont really affiliate with either party, it makes the progressive who do that look like intellectual cowards who cannot defend their position if they block someone for responding with a counteragruement.
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Dec 21, 2016 09:00
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One thing that gets alt-right groups mad and ready to argue/mock is when radical progressives show their hypocricy/madness. For example, Overwatch just revealed that Tracer, the flagship/box art character, is a lesbian. Then johnathan Mcintosh, former writer for Anita Sarkessian says that 'no, its not good enough for Tracer to be lesbian, she needs to be unattractive to straight guys and not promote 'male gaze' https://mobile.twitter.com/thegingerarchy/status/811344094979063808 Then someone asking how would you make straight guys uncomfortable with a lesbian character gets the answer 'make them a Real Woman instead'. Asking what critera make a 'real woman' gets the person asking blocked by mcintosh. http://thespectacularspider-girl.tumblr.com/post/154749582364/egaylitarian-foolish-writer-and-then-i-asked So Mcintosh wants Tracer to not be attractive under 'male gaze', but female gaze is perfectly acceptable. The attitude that a LGBT character is unacceptable unless it is not attractive to heterosexuals is implied by Mcintosh's remarks. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 21, 2016 22:00
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yeah, the problem with using 'privilege' to describe common advantages in the US is that most of what is a 'Privilege' is the lack of a societal failure. Police treating blacks harsher than whites, men not facing the sexism woman can face, etc. And so telling someone that he is privileged because he never experiences these failures of an attempt to make an equal and just society makes it seem like that person is being blamed for circumstances beyond their control. It is akin to telling someone they are born with inescapable sin for being born white. And so trying to stir up empathy for the nonprivileged can run into a brick wall of 'why are you saying I MUST do this for merely being born a certain race or gender'. I think all the people saying 'white men are the most privileged' end up making a opposition that sees nothing privileged about their day-to-day, struggling to make a living lifestyle, as they don't see how their situation could ever be called privileged. In common everyday use, privilege is something extra on top of the normal operations of day to day life. The privilege of cutting line because of a membership, the privilege of going first because of a won coin flip. The privilege of getting to go first in a board game because its your birthday.
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Jan 2, 2017 01:10
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OwlFancier posted:Because "privilege" being an antagonizing word is primarily because people don't like the concept it conveys. Any word which effectively conveys that concept would become "antagonizing" in short order, because the concept is what people are objecting to. The problem is that privilege is/has become a word with a lot of negative connotations. "We have to pay for the Privilege of having fast internet." "the owner of the place installed a pay toilet since he decided going to the bathroom is a privilege" Parents use the word to describe things they can take away from kids if they get out of line, like TV privileges or internet privileges. People use privilege to describe having to pay for what is seen as an essental service that should be free. Privilege has a ton of negative connotations, especially for those who had parents use that word in regard to their school grades and electronics access. And then the radical progressive started using it as an insult, or in a condescending manner, like "You are just a Privileged white male." Imagine someone yelling that last line out in an insulting tone. Privilege is a horrible word to use to describe the negative deviations from societal norms blacks and women can encounter.
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Jan 2, 2017 01:40
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This is a perfect exaple of how insulting 'check your privilege' has become: http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/12/check-your-privilege-cards-are-the-best-gift.html The cards say, "Uh-oh, your privilege is showing" "You got this card because your privilege allowed to to make a comment others cannot agree with or relate to" Apparently they are supposed to be given out if someone says something 'privileged'. The article even says 'the gift of self-awareness is forever'. This is the sort of thing that infuriates people, saying something, and then getting 'check your privilege' as a response, as if that ends the conversation in any meaningful way.
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Jan 2, 2017 02:02
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:You said that labels make you feel bad and attacked, and your solution is that instead of the labels being used on you we should use labels on the other groups that aren't you to say the exact same thing. So being part of the norm is only due to some extra privilege we get, and that everyone at should be treated bady by police and sexualized like women? is the 'norm' without any of these privileges poor housing opportunities for all and everyone being racist and sexist against one another? Is this what a Privilegeless society really is? When being part of the average population is considered privileged, then people also start to think: 'Hey a privilege is also something that can be taken away, like by electronics when I got bad grades on at test.' I don't want those people to take the 'privilege' of avoiding police brutality away from me.
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Jan 2, 2017 02:14
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The underlying problem is that Privilege's common, non-academic definition is so negative that being labled 'privileged' in the common definition is insulting. Advantage would be a better term for academia and progressives to use, since it does not have all the negative implications and assumptions that privileged carries with it. A 'Privileged person' in the common definition is a person who can bypass all the normal functions of society because of who he is. Calling a white guy privileged brings to mind getting goodies from the police for being white, or getting a discount for being a guy. It does not bring to mind 'the justice system works as intended', nor does that feel like a 'privilege' at all to most of the populace.
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Jan 2, 2017 02:44
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Who What Now posted:Whether or not you feel privileged has no bearing on whether or not you are privileged. And those white guys undoubtedly have a privilege that the non-whites that Wal*Mart would never consider hiring do not. Well using the word 'Privilege' implies super-special opportunity no one else can have, and saying that those employees are privileged for simply being employed at wal-mart is an insult to their living and economic situation. "Getting hired at wal-mart is a privilege". is the most insulting thing to say to a guy struggling on the wage paid by walmart
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Jan 2, 2017 02:49
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OwlFancier posted:It is a super special opportunity if it is an opportunity which is systemically denied to other groups. Tell that to the white people employed at wal-mart, and see how they react. I bet you are going to get a bunch more Alt-right people if you do that.
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Jan 2, 2017 02:58
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Who What Now posted:
So saying that a white guy is 'fortunate' 'lucky' or 'advantaged' just because he could get a minimum wage job is not supposed to be insulting? Because to that person, you are telling them that their position as a position as a poorly-paid worker is somehow a privilege he has that Ben Carson or the hispanic guy who owns his own business do not have. Yeah, he should feel thankful for the 'Privilege' that gave him the only job he could find, its too bad all the other minorities he sees in the media have better jobs than him, they dont have his massive privilege at all, what with his lovely car and minimum wage job this 'privilege' got him.
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Jan 2, 2017 04:20
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Who What Now, I really loving despise you for not seeing how insulting everything you are saying is for white people with minimum wage jobs. Telling them that their lovely situation is the result of privilege is not going to make them suddenly thankful for any 'privileges' they have, real or not. It is going make them tell you to gently caress off for saying they should be aware of all the other people who never got the opportunities to be in their lovely position and they are somehow advantaged because they are living paycheck-to-paycheck, with a lovely apartment.
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Jan 2, 2017 04:40
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Who What Now posted:The point isn't to make them thankful for the privileges, you moron. So you want to make the minimum wage white guy feel bad even when his living and job situation are lovely and he knows it? What is the knowledge that he is somehow privileged supposed to do? He is still poor and has a lovely job, what should he do?
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Jan 2, 2017 04:48
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