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They seem to have good chemisty, I'll give the backlog a go through. Would be interesting to have a perspective from an actual american left.
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Dec 26, 2016 17:03
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JcDent posted:Comrade KomradeX, I just wanted to post that. I had another friend I turned onto the podcast ask if I had listened to it yet, what with it being Christmas I wasn't expecting one so was glad to listen to it at work today. And the second it was over I figured it was prime for thread since it's just about the same delusions as this monstrosity
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Dec 26, 2016 17:11
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And weird barely disguised stand ins for political targets.
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Dec 26, 2016 17:18
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Chapter seven Ben finds a motel, and starts making up a room when he notices a group of black people in the parking lot. quote:“Deserting your friends in the suburbs?” a tall black man asked. Ben could detect no hostility in his voice. This is Cecil Jeffreys. Hope you like him he’s gonna be here forever. His main character traits devolve into being black and agreeing with Ben, but in the first book he’s probably one of the better written characters. quote:“You’re familiar with the Thompson?” As Ben gets washed up for dinner he reflects on his situation. quote:Ben, like many, if not most, whites, had never socialized with blacks, never sat down at a table with a a black person to have dinner— except for his time in the service, and there had been few blacks in his outfit. In truth, Ben did not really know or trust black people. He didn’t know why he didn’t trust them. He just didn’t. Ben despised the KKK, the Nazi Party— groups of that ilk— and he would never, ever, hurt a black person, unless that person was trying to hurt him; but, he admitted, as he bathed— very quickly— in the cold water ... I guess I really don’t like black people. He goes to dinner and spends the entire time realizing he believes a lot of stupid stereotypes. Not all blacks drink Thunderbird. quote:“Ever sat down and had dinner with blacks?” a woman inquired. Her tone was neither friendly nor hostile… just curious. Dinner is uncomfortable. Ben has blacksense quote:The woman Ben had thought white— he still wasn’t sure what she was— asked, “They’re all dead?” “All but the brother in Chicago.” He looked at her. She was very good-looking. No negroid features about her; but Ben sensed she was black, at least to some degree. “Your family?” he asked her. Dinner talk covers the recent war and how much nuclear warfare had advanced. It’s pleasant but it can’t last forever. quote:The woman who had asked about his family was Salina. Salina Franklin. There were Jake and Nora, a Clint and Jane Helms, and Anwar Ali Kasim. Kasim is to put it mildly hostie. quote:“How come you didn’t stay with your brother and his buddies and help kill rear end the niggers in the city?” Everybody thinks Kasim is a jerk. Salina calls him on it. quote:“Well, now… Zebra got herself a yearning for some white cock?” She smacks him, he goes to strike back and see’s Cecil holding is gun on him. Ben senses the hostility in the room and politely excuses himself. The next morning Salina comes to apologize. She gives us Kasim’s story, his sister was gang raped by white guys. She explains zebra cause he’s kind of dumb. quote:laugh. “I’m half white, half black. My mother was a light-skinned woman, good-looking. My father was a handsome man. Yes, they were married.” “I didn’t think you were—” “Pure coon,” she cut in, but she was smiling. “That was not my choice of words, Salina.” She kisses him and then leaves. The way Johnstone handles racism feels a little weird compared to most right wing fiction. He admits that he doesn't know any black people, and that most of he thinks is probably wrong. White supremacists are a frequent antagonist. So he knows that racism is bad, and not just being called racist but actually being racist. But this doesn't mean that you won't find a bunch of black antagonists described in the most racist way imaginable. The best way to describe it, Ben doesn't care what race you are as long as you think exactly like him.
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Dec 26, 2016 18:45
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Well, if they are bad people, you can be racist against them. It cancels out! Why would black and white people never interact anyways, as Ben believes? They might be shaped in some way by black culture (is there a white culture, outside of just "default culture"?), but they're not aliens, orcs or the French.
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Dec 26, 2016 21:59
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For a crazy conservative fantasy fic it's a little more nuanced than I expected but, like, it'd be nice if the author progressed further than tryhard colourblindness having identified the issue with his lack of knowledge.
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Dec 26, 2016 22:32
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OwlFancier posted:For a crazy conservative fantasy fic it's a little more nuanced than I expected but, like, it'd be nice if the author progressed further than tryhard colourblindness having identified the issue with his lack of knowledge. If he did that then it wouldn't be crazy conservative fanfic.
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Dec 27, 2016 00:02
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Barbe Rouge posted:If he did that then it wouldn't be crazy conservative fanfic.  John Browning and then used it to kill the big bad who was standing on two American flags at the same time while using birth control.
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Dec 27, 2016 00:09
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Ben drives south, every place he stops he finds a few people waiting for the government to fix everything. Not cleaning, not burying the dead just waiting for the government to roll up and start fixing poo poo. It makes me think of something I’ve never thought of before, survivor psychology in a situation has got to be like something we’ve never seen. Ben of course is immune to psychology so he’s fine. Occasionally he finds bigger more coherent groups with women offering to go with hem. He finds a group of three men drunk off their rear end, they want to know if he’s seen any broads. Eventually he sees this on a billboard quote:Ben Raines- If you’re alive and reading this, or if anybody knows the whereabouts of Ben Raines, have him contact us on military 39.2 Keep trying; We’ll be listening. We need orders. Apparently what’s left of the military is looking for him. I’m not sure what their chain of command looks like but for now I’m going to assume its Ben’s name with a line pointing to a big blob. He chooses to ignore it. He avoids an active firefight in Fort Wayne. He starts getting fuel from tankers, as none of the pumps work anymore. quote:Ben had anticipated the highways and interstates clogged with stalled vehicles, but that had not been the case, and as he drove, he saw why. On the interstates, exits and on-ramps were hopelessly snarled; traffic was backed up, in many cases, for a mile or more. It was hard work getting off and on the interstate system, and Ben knew he would have to find a four-wheel drive with one hell of a good PTO winch on the front. So the freeways are clear cause everybody got stuck on the on ramps. He stops in an Ohio State police building and rounds up a Geiger counter. Which might have been issued to police in the 80s, not sure. He moves on to Toledo when quote:Engrossed in CB chatter, he did not notice the motorcycles until it was almost too late. He was gassing up, the motor still on. He took an almost perverse pleasure (childlike, he realized) in wasting gas, since it no longer cost an arm and a leg to buy a gallon. He hoped the Arabs, who had gouged the world for years, were all rotting in their oil-rich beds, their imported French water growing bugs in it. It was American know-how that had brought in their loving oil in the first place. He’s mad at capitalism. quote:Ben pulled out onto the highway just as he heard the roar coming at him. A pistol barked and a slug spider-webbed the windshield. He squalled onto Ohio 199 just as another slug slammed through the rear window. Ben glanced at his side mirror; the motorcyclists were gaining on him, waving guns and shouting. If you took a drink every time somebody tries to kill Ben, fails, and begs for mercy you would get pretty drunk. If you drink every time shows mercy you might take a drink every five books. Anyway his car is busted so he hunts down a national guard or reserve armory. He gets a new truck. quote:He changed the oil and filters in the truck, tossed two spare tires in the back, then went prowling through the armory to see what he could find. He picked up a few cases of C-ration and some dehydrated rations. Everytime he lists equipment it kind of stops being a book for a minute and starts being a player telling me what his character wants to pick up.
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Dec 27, 2016 05:38
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This book would be fine as a Fallout novel, as written by Bethesda.
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Dec 27, 2016 06:45
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JcDent posted:There is an old post nuclear war RPG called Tomorrow Project. In the vein of all good old RPGs, it starts with a massively autistic chartaton to calculate what places get hit and by what, and how much radiation remains, and radiation sickness. One weird thing about it is that they include bacteriological ICBMs into the list. Where the soviets seriously deploying biological weapons in missiles? Is this available anywhere in PDF form? I'm not having much luck finding it if it is, owing to the many things now named "Tomorrow Project" that are vastly more popular.
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Dec 27, 2016 07:06
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Remind me in about ten hours or so and I might be able to fish it out.quote:Ben of course is immune to psychology so he’s fine. It's not just Warhammer, it's Oldhammer up in this bitch! Half of the people in this book are servitors who get mindlock if there's no bureaucracy priest government seer to guide them; the other half are Imperial robots, with their first command being if (government) = 0 Then rape
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Dec 27, 2016 08:05
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Canuck-Errant posted:Is this available anywhere in PDF form? I'm not having much luck finding it if it is, owing to the many things now named "Tomorrow Project" that are vastly more popular. It's called The Morrow Project. It's really good.
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Dec 27, 2016 12:39
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Sounds like the same vein as Twilight 2000. 80s RPGs were the craziest drat things, Twilight 2000 had a Calendar with weather conditions for every year for 1996 through 2000
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Dec 27, 2016 14:40
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Twilight 2000 is sheer bugfuck insanity constructed by NASA engineers for RPG sessions between rocket scientists, idiot savants, AI computers and God.
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Dec 27, 2016 15:35
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Throwing Turtles posted:So the freeways are clear cause everybody got stuck on the on ramps. He stops in an Ohio State police building and rounds up a Geiger counter. Which might have been issued to police in the 80s, not sure. Probably shoved in a store closet somewhere and forgotten about in the panic of an actual nuclear attack.
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Dec 27, 2016 15:41
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JcDent posted:Twilight 2000 is sheer bugfuck insanity constructed by NASA engineers for RPG sessions between rocket scientists, idiot savants, AI computers and God. This is the perfect explanation of it I got the 2nd edition rule book as a PDF and is would be a nightmare to run, let alone teach the players
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Dec 27, 2016 15:56
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The new version came out a couple years ago and is much simpler.
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Dec 27, 2016 16:15
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Chapter eight.quote:By the middle of October, Ben had traveled as far to the east as he dared go. Transmissions on the CB had dwindled to practically nothing, and lately he had been seeing some fresh bodies, all with signs of radiation sickness marking them. He knew they had died hard. It’s not clear how long it’s been since doomsday. Maybe two weeks. It occurs to him that nobody has checked on prisons, old age homes, and mental institutions. quote:Oh, my God! The news is bad. But at least he gets points for realizing his own failing. Also failing here is geography. He drove south from Chicago and ended up in Pennsylvania. Just north of Charlottesville, he sees a survivor. quote:The figure whirled around at the sound of the truck, then jumped for the ditch, trying for the woods. But the jump was short, and the boy fell hard, grabbing at his ankle. By this time, Ben was on the scene. He stepped out onto the shoulder and turned, finding himself looking down the barrel of a small automatic pistol, held by a pretty young lady. She seems reasonable, and I mean that in a completely nonsarcastic way. He treats the ankle and get’s a name out of her, Jerre hunter. quote:hurt as bad as my ankle hurts.” Ben laughed at her. “You can put that pistol away, too, Jerre. It’s not going to fire unless you cock it first.” Jerre doesn’t really get firearms safety. Jeere is another type of interchangeable stock figure. The strong female character. It doesn’t really go much deeper than that, but it’s comparable to most of the male characters so it doesn’t stand out to much. As with race, Ben doesn’t really care about gender so much as if they agree with him. quote:“You want to know something else, Ben? I mean, on top of all this stupid war stuff, there is no music.” The conversation turns to travel, she’s walking instead of driving because no hurry on getting anywhere. They talk about clean bombs, the triple cross, the army waiting for him. quote:“Where are they?” She talks about her family, the next door neighbor who was going to take care of her, him trying to get liquored up, her killing the guy in her escape. She’s not a virgin, but she’s not going to give it up randomly. Then there’s this next bit. quote:“And do you know where I went? Where the damned car quit on me? Smart me! To Wheeling. Talk about a case of the dumb-rear end. There was a mob of thugs roaming around. And you know they spotted me. You ever seen one little blond-headed girl trying to break the four-minute mile while being chased by fifty guys, all with their peckers out?” This is an incredibly silly image. quote:I mean, sex is good--terrific when everything is right--but I don’t go around thinking about it all the time. Men do, though, don’t they? Sure they do.” And she’s just a touch separatist. quote:She had replied, “It wasn’t just blacks chasing me in Wheeling; some of those guys were pretty decent-looking men. But I think I can understand how your brother and his friends feel.” This goes on for some time. quote:“I said education is the key to solving problems, Ben. But … I don’t believe you can have one set of rules for some people and another set for other people And he accidentally lands on the point, black people have to live by an entirely different lovely set of rules. Then they gently caress.
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Dec 27, 2016 17:19
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She said she was 19!
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Dec 27, 2016 17:28
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Well, she'd be safe from post apocalyptic wandering authors John Ringo and Piers Anthony at least.
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Dec 27, 2016 17:40
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I like how Ben first smugs out about being completely safe because the pistol needs to be cocked, while at the same time also not noticing that it evidently already has been cocked because otherwise it wouldn't have fired when dropped. Looks like Johnston was just so eager to get in another "silly wimmin don't know guns" dig that he never even noticed it made his protagonist look pretty incompetent himself.
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Dec 27, 2016 18:08
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It could be an open bolt type. Won't fire from the trigger without cocking but a sharp knock to the bolt could have it discharge from closed. It's hard to say from "with an automatic of that type", I would have expected more specific gun  given the rest of the book so far.
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Dec 27, 2016 18:24
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Phyein posted:God this poo poo is just embarrasing. I love it. Its such a prototypical American conservative fantasy. It gets me thinking, based on the fundamentals of both the story and how it relates to American conservatism, is there a liberal equivalent to this fantasy and line of thinking, on par in terms of prevalence in liberal belief and ridiculous fantasy? The closest thing I can think of is "history", which isnt exactly a good analouge for this drivel (since history and fantasy are pretty much opposites). Her earlier books weren't too bad, but her more recent ones dear lord they're loving INSANE, and I speak as a pinko-eco-feminist-librul-etc. The stereotypical Tepper novel will start with a nice woman being oppressed by a) societal expectations, b) male relatives and c) looming eco-disaster, then at some point making friends with a powerful alien force that eats all the gun-totin' eco-unfriendly misogynists at the end. Six Moon Dance is a particularly glorious example for the ending, where we find out that the author is perfectly cool with a planetary government selling girl babies to men on other planets because those are frontier planets where women are prized so of COURSE they'll be looked after. (I'd realized she was barking mad and morally loathsome a couple of books before and was reading that one purely to see how bad it got, and I can say with perfect confidence that I never imagined it would get THAT bad.)
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Dec 27, 2016 18:50
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The weird, inappropriate for the situation political/social conversation makes more sense if Ben is actually a scary-seeming unhinged survivalist instead of a calm, clearheaded good samaritan and the girl is desperately trying to placate him
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Dec 27, 2016 19:17
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Runcible Cat posted:Ooo, ooo, a couple of pages late but I know an example. Sheri Tepper's SF/fantasy. Is it Let's Read worthy bad and is she big like Terry Goodkind or something? The dialogue makes all of the sense since basically 90% of surviving men are some crazy rapevivalists
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Dec 27, 2016 22:07
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JcDent posted:Is it Let's Read worthy bad and is she big like Terry Goodkind or something? I don't think it's Let's Read material - I think that needs a, well, fairly even distribution of awful poo poo to make it worthwhile, while Tepper tends to keep the awful poo poo in big infrequent lumps to hit you hard with. In between her characters are relatable, her prose is decent, her earlier books range from decent to really bloody good but once you realise how batshit she is you can see the traces of the batshittiness in them too. Maybe a chapter-by-chapter of Six Moon Dance would have enough in to make a not-very-longlasting Let's Read, but it's been a long time since I read it and I can only remember 2 really glorious batshit bits in it - they are hilariously ghastly, but I don't think they're enough to hang a thread on. Maybe I should reread it and do a review for the bad books thread in the spirit of the Ferretbrain review of an even later and batshittier Tepper book, Waters Rising: http://ferretbrain.com/articles/article-938
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Dec 27, 2016 23:11
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Here's all you need to know about Tepper:Strange Horizons Interview posted:NS: When Sheri becomes Head Queen, what three things will get changed first?
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Dec 27, 2016 23:21
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Runcible Cat posted:Hugo-nominated, World Fantasy Award for Life Achievement-winning, so a lot better received critically, though never quite as bestselling. And died in October, as I've only just found out, so I feel kind of like I'm punching down now, but hey. You want vile Let's Read Material? Find some Tom Kratman.
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Dec 28, 2016 02:00
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flosofl posted:Here's all you need to know about Tepper: Maybe this person overall represents an extreme example of crazy liberal ideas but permanent prison city exile for all violent criminals doesn't sound like the best example of that.
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Dec 28, 2016 12:49
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'Eco-fascist' gets thrown around a lot but I think "human rights for some primates and dolphins and no human rights for some humans, plus throw the mentally ill and drug users into giant prison camps full of rapists and murderers" probably fits that.
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Dec 28, 2016 19:23
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Has anyone here read "Ecotopia" by any chance? Holy poo poo that's a lovely book.
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Dec 29, 2016 00:10
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Chapter 9 They gently caress some more, walked on the beach, built a sandcastle and it’s really uncomfortable. quote:“You’re really a hot little number,” Ben kidded her. “Must have had a repressive childhood.” And quote:In that cabin, for the next three days, they forgot the world existed (not much of it did). Jerre complimented Ben, his chest swelling with pride when she told him he was amply endowed in the male department— she’d never seen one so big. Then, giggling, she told him she’d only seen two before his and he chased her out of the cabin onto the beach. The sex in these books reminds me of the prostitutes in Witcher 2. It’s there, adds nothing, is pretty loving creepy, and you feel dirty after the fact. They move on, to find better winter quarters. The smell of corpses went away. We learn about the fate of dogs. quote:Packs of dogs roamed the countryside, quickly turning wild, reverting to the survival instinct, never quite fully bred out of them: the German shepherd, the Doberman, the husky, the malamute, the pit bull, the boxer, the chow. Lesser, smaller breeds died for the most part: the little poodles, the Chihuahuas, certain breeds of collie— almost all toy breeds were no more. Working breeds lived. This is probably a metaphor. Ben expects rabies to be a problem in a few months, and I don’t know enough about the disease to say he’s right or wrong. Jeere upfront about her expectations. quote:“When I feel I’m getting too attached to you, Ben, I’ll leave. Walk away, and not look back, even though I’ll want to look back— not go. I’ll survive, General—’ cause you’ll teach me that. If I had any sense, I’d stay with you, despite the difference in our ages. But right now, I’m cute to you. I don’t talk like you and I’m young and kind of have a bad mouth. Cute. But that cute would get frayed around the edges pretty quick, I’m thinking.” They find a sporting goods store. quote:At a sporting goods store outside of Richmond, Ben found a cache of illegal pistols, just as he had in every sporting goods store at which he’d stopped. Obviously, as could have been predicted (and was) not too many people really paid much attention to the gun-control act of Hilton Logan. He also finds a couple of Ingram submachine guns, a couple of 9-mm automatic pistols and a 7-mm bolt-action rifle. It occurs to me that in his situation , where you have to work with people , having a pile of poo poo to trade would be ideal. Jerre sees him with the guns quote:“You planning on starting a war, Ben Raines?” Jerre asked him. The CB offers background noise. quote:They skirted Richmond, searching the bands on the CB for chatter. The talk was rough: Killin’ niggers and killin’ honkies and lookin’ for pussy. That last bit is interesting in that it never happens. Starting in book two, everybody adheres to a pretty strict alignment system. The bad guys are all chaotic evil so they all work together. KKK and militant black separatists, they're both evil so they work together. They find a pasture with cattle. quote:“Pick your dinner, Jerre.” She gets over herself by dinnertime. Now a little farm out in the country would be the perfect place to find somebody pissed about you killing their cow. It never really comes up. Talking about how people without training expect to survive. quote:“People are tougher than even they suspect,” Ben said. “I think we all have a ... hidden reserve in us; a well of strength that only surfaces in some sort of catastrophe. I also believe that in the long run, good will defeat evil.” Talk turns to Ben’s Nazi brother quote:“Dad raised us to be resourceful, but to be kind to those less fortunate, not to be mean to others.” He thought of his brother in Chicago. “Maybe Carl forgot what Dad taught us.” quote:… I'm not sure when privilege became a key component in understanding racism. Nobody told me about it when I was a kid, but then the people who cared probably wouldn't be inclined to tell me. But just because somebody hasn't labeled it doesn't mean it didn't exist. These last couple of paragraphs are pretty much the perfect example.
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Dec 29, 2016 00:16
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I'm really enjoying this thread and look forward to continuing the saga of Sergeant Major Author-Insert. The best part is having OP pick out the crazy instead of doing it myself.
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Dec 29, 2016 00:25
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Was this published around the time the Death Wish movies were a thing?
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Dec 29, 2016 00:50
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PJOmega posted:Was this published around the time the Death Wish movies were a thing? It came out in 1983 so about the time Death Wish 3 was out.
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Dec 29, 2016 01:25
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"You know Ben Raines, I'm not racist but maybe the KKK had some ideas."
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Dec 29, 2016 02:17
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I wonder how these people would explain Eastern Europe, where all the punks and rapists and whatever are all white. On the other hand, I dunno how humane our treatment of criminals is, so maybe they'd view it as an example to follow.
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Dec 29, 2016 06:11
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JcDent posted:I wonder how these people would explain Eastern Europe, where all the punks and rapists and whatever are all white. They're all liberals. Edit Also they'd link you to articles about the German New Years rapes.
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Dec 29, 2016 06:17
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Next in Petersburg we meet one of the less common stock characters. The corrupt religious figure.quote:And it was there Ben found the first organization geared toward rebuilding. But neither Ben nor Jerre wanted any part of this group. The leader was a Fundamentalist preacher (Ben didn’t ask of what) who reminded Ben of a certain member of the old Moral Majority (title self-proclaimed). This one was too slick, too glib, too quick with a smile— an answer for everything. They don’t stick around. After a couple of weeks she drops this. quote:“Let’s pack it up, Ben. Head west. O.K.?” “O.K., babe. How far west and any particular reason for that direction?” She nodded. “Time to level with you, General.” She tried a smile that didn’t make it. “I heard on the road that kids were going to gather at the university at Chapel Hill the first and second weeks of November. The word was passed up and down the line. The reason ... ? Ben, I don’t want to hurt your feelings, and please don’t take this the wrong way, but—” They head west, she leaves a note while he pretends to sleep. She walks out of the story. quote:
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Dec 29, 2016 18:43
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