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Lol what garbage. Is there any showing in this book, as opposed to telling in the most stilted prose possible?
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Dec 29, 2016 19:49
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Lol what garbage. Is there any showing in this book, as opposed to telling in the most stilted prose possible? Yes, but most of it at this point is incidental. Like there is this bit in the next update quote:“How ... ah ... do I scramble this thing?” “On which end, sir?” “Both ends!” “What is the number on the transmitter facing?” Ben looked, found about forty-eight different numbers. He settled on the largest number that seemed permanent. Most of it isn't even this relevant, it's setting up camp, or changing a tire. Most of that gets cut.
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Dec 29, 2016 20:37
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Chapter 10 Ben’s coping. There isn’t much emotional content in these books, and even Jerre’s departure is pretty rare for the books. Most of his companions die or turn traitor and then die. So seeing her get to choose something other than with me or against me for a third option is rare. quote:He wished the young people well, but did not believe they would accomplish a thing. Except get themselves killed. Back in 1960, when Ben was sixteen years old, he had believed in Camelot. But the years of combat and of seeing the mute silence of the dead and the screaming of the wounded and the starvation of people in parts of Africa had convinced him that only the toughest survive--there is not, there was not such a place as Camelot. Ben spends most of his life in two emotional states. War is hell and I love it, and, war is hell and you can’t do anything about it. Gun stuff. quote:...he spent the rest of the day practicing with the M-10 and getting the feel of the 9-mm pistol. Benc concluded the little SMG did not have the knockdown power of the heavy old Thompson, or the range, but it was lighter and easier to handle. He elected to stay with it. The friends who introduced me to this were also my gaming group. The most popular game was this spastic apocalypse based homebrew. You made a character or team, which was usually a name with a collection of equipment. Stats existed but were usually ignored for a 50-50 chance of success. The game took place in our home town of Reno, so we broke out the road map and had a death match. The other thing that made it unique is the GM sat in another room and each player had their turn in secret until it came time to fight then both players went in the other room. It was based mostly on these books, and the Star Trek rpg that was out at the time. In retrospect it also worked as a metaphor, the only thing that matters is the name and the list of guns. quote:...he arrives at Shaw Air Force Base, thinking surely, of all places, there would be life here; a military organized disciplined order to things. quote:”You know that when the military gets it all together --take another ninety to one hundred twenty days--that craphead Logan will be named president.” So Logan is about to assume the presidency. I don’t know how the line of succession to the presidency works once you reached the last in line, which in this time would be the secretary of Education. But I think you could make a pretty good case for a senator stepping in. But this brings up another point. None of the people in charge tried to preserve the government. They had warning. They could have done something to maximize their chance maintaining the government. Instead they decided to go on stupid suicide missions that wouldn’t have changed poo poo even if they pulled them off perfectly. quote:…”one of you people take over; don’t give it to Logan” Ok this convoluted plan breaks down like this. Logan enlisted Adams to trick the rebels into supporting him, in case he lost the presidency. quote:But everything went haywire: coups all over the world; a minor revolt in Russia; the Thunder-strikes; the Rebs in the sub.” quote:“Logan is going in to help all the poor third-world nations after he gets you people organized, isn’t he, General.” This is another place where Johnstone is pretty consistent. It's not just that he's an isolationist, he also recognizes that when we go to help another country we don't always have their best interests in mind. quote:“You were part of it, weren’t you, General?” Again, the nod. Ben had the tape recorder on the entire time. I’m just going to assume he runs it every time he talks to somebody. Then he shoots them. Is killed by exposition a thing, it seems like it should be a thing. Ben heads to the communications center and dials up the rebels. quote:“This is Ben Raines,” he spoke slowly. I hear you people have been looking for me.” We find out that the person manning the radio is Lieutenant Conger, and that Bull was his uncle. There are rebels organized nation wide waiting for orders, which according to the way Bull set them up can only come from him. Not sure what they would have done had he died, his survival was pretty much a fluke. This starts a very long running joke. Ben doesn’t want to be a general and keeps insisting that he’s not, which is ignored by everybody. Lieutenant Conger is actually pretty competent. quote:“Where are you, sir? I need your location so I can send some personnel to guard you until you link up with us.” Ben loses his poo poo and tries to appoint Conger commanding office. Conger isn’t taking any of his poo poo and insists he take over. The do manage to work out a first step. The rebels are going to steal or destroy every plane they can find with the intent to cripple Logan’s ability to operate overseas.
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Dec 29, 2016 21:09
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Out of curiosity, roughly how many pages into the book are we at this point and how long is the book?
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Dec 29, 2016 21:15
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This whole rebel thing is making less and less sense all the time. As is Logan's evil plan. If he's an evul leftist shouldn't it be that he wants to help the USSR or like some random African country conquer the USA?
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Dec 29, 2016 21:18
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Is it ever explained why the military reveres this guy so much? He apparently spent two years as a mercenary and I guess a few years before that in active service in the military? He doesn't even seem particularly patriotic given a mildly successful book-writing career was enough to make him reject participation in a revolution that he seemed to fully agree with on ideological grounds, and his only stated reaction to the nuclear holocaust appears to be a mixture of bemusement and smug satisfaction. Is there ever some kind of expository dump where some side character actually lays out the specific reasons that this guy is the ideal leader? So ideal, in fact, that even after a nuclear holocaust you'd be moving heaven and earth to tr and find him so he can take over? Obviously the answer is that the author is a hack and, even by the standards of hack authors, is doing a poor job of setting up motivations for his characters. Just look at how he handles that young girl the protagonist hooks up with -- she sticks around exactly long enough to repeat a bunch of really racist garbage and to compliment our author-inserts big dick, and then she implausibly decides to go it alone in a rape-haunted post apocalyptic hellscape (also how did our ultimate bad-rear end main character not wake up when she packed her poo poo and left in the middle of the night?). Still, I'm curious whether the author ever tries to actually justify why he's going to inherit an entire army?
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Dec 29, 2016 21:23
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Helsing posted:Out of curiosity, roughly how many pages into the book are we at this point and how long is the book? So the way the book is broken up is pretty uneven. Part one had six fairly short chapters. Part two started at page 72 and has eighteen chapters. Part three starts on page 352 and has no chapters. The book has 475 pages. The series does not follow the formula of the first book. The first book sets everything up at which point it settles down into it's normal routine. It also get's really repetitive so I'm going to try and find the best example of "Bed does a thing" and trim the rest out.
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Dec 29, 2016 21:46
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Throwing Turtles posted:Yes, but most of it at this point is incidental. Like there is this bit in the next update Author is way down on his milspeak, should be "say again" not "repeat".
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Dec 29, 2016 21:48
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Helsing posted:Is it ever explained why the military reveres this guy so much? He apparently spent two years as a mercenary and I guess a few years before that in active service in the military? He doesn't even seem particularly patriotic given a mildly successful book-writing career was enough to make him reject participation in a revolution that he seemed to fully agree with on ideological grounds, and his only stated reaction to the nuclear holocaust appears to be a mixture of bemusement and smug satisfaction. Bull was the one everybody respected, and after his partner turned traitor he picked Raines to lead because he fought with him in Vietnam, and Raines was the only one outside of it all that he could trust. Later on, and I'm like 70% sure I'm not making this up, it goes into a bit more detail about what he was doing in Africa, independent contractor for the CIA, and his activities there are pretty well known for what was probably a secret mission.
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Dec 29, 2016 21:53
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He's got Reluctant Hero written all over him so of course they expect him to lead them to renewed glory.
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Dec 29, 2016 21:56
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quote:Ben prowled the base until he found the ordinance hut. He broke open the building and began picking through the explosives. He was too rusty to trust himself if he used any type of timer, so he chose several crates of incendiary grenades and began the job of filling five-gallons cans full of high-octane jet fuel and pouring some around the line of jets on the tarmac. He then began the job of destroying the aircraft. He get’s back to randomly roaming the country and forgetting that people are waiting on him. quote:
This is another stock character that shows up in the books and seeing as they are all dogs they are all pretty likable. This dog is named Juno according to the tag on his collar. quote:Ben’s sleep that night was deep and secure, for the animal was attuned to the nights every noise. During the night, Juno had snuggle up to Ben’s sleeping bag, the closeness and warmth comforting to both man and beast. Ben starts finding bodies, fresh bodies. quote:been shot. A few miles down the highway, Ben found a body hanging from a tree alongside the road. A crudely lettered sign hung around the neck read: friend of the family. He notices signs indicating a prison, and he checks it out, but the smell and the buzzards convince him not to stop. He meets a few people and sees some damage. I’m not condensing that, it’s what the text says. quote:He wandered the northern part of the state, all the way over to Hampton Springs, seeing a few people, some friendly, some hostile. He saw signs of looting and violence everywhere he went. The looting comment is kind of weird considering that’s how he’s staying alive. Maybe he meant a different kind of looting. He finds a radio station, with actual music. quote:“Yes, sir, folks, it’s a bright, beautiful day here in the city with the titties. Temperature in the mid-seventies and you’re listening to the SEAL with the feel, Ike McGowen, watchin’ the records go ’round. Are you listening, world? If so, and you’re the friendly type, just head on down to the coast to Yankeetown and be received. But if you’re hostile, just carry your rear end on, brother.” quote:...Ben pulled into the drive of the large, ocean side house and got out. So this is Ike the SEAL pimp. This is like finding the secret GTA area of Fallout. quote:In the sprawling house, Ike introduced Ben. “This one here is Tatter, and that’s June-Bug, and that one there is Space-Baby, and that one is Angel-Face. The blond is Honey-Poo. That dark one all sprawled out on the floor, too goddamned lazy to get up is Bell-Ringer. She claims to be a black person of the Negroid persuasion, but I think she’s just been out in the sun too long.” Bell-Ringer smiled and gave him the middle finger. She smiled at Ben, then went back to reading her book. Ike said, “We got all the conveniences, friend. Generator for electricity which gives up light, music, and hot water. So fix yourself a drink and let’s talk. Then we’ll vote.” We get the rundown. He was Navy SEAL and had always wanted to be a DJ, so when the war happened he went out and did just that. He met Bell-Ringer mid rape, he shot the attackers and she followed them back. The rest just kind of showed up when he started broadcasting. They take a vote, Ben is allowed to stay if he wants.
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Dec 30, 2016 03:06
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No biggie, I'm just Navy SEAL turned DJ with a Hefner streak! All my days are just sex, guns, and music!
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Dec 30, 2016 08:18
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Soo, what's the viewpoint of "Negroid" in the 80's: definitely racist or I didn't know it was racist until you told me? Like, it's kinda jarring to have the term just thrown about with reckless abandon by an ostensibly, non-racist. This, of course, assumes that Johnstone knows how to write in Ben's voice. Also: quote:He then began the job of destroying the aircraft. Will he ever show! Like, come on. You can't give us loving exploding jets! Nope, but let me tell you about the options on this M010. Was this your typo or Johnstone's? The Ingram is an M-10.
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Dec 30, 2016 21:32
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BirdOfPlay posted:Soo, what's the viewpoint of "Negroid" in the 80's: definitely racist or I didn't know it was racist until you told me? Like, it's kinda jarring to have the term just thrown about with reckless abandon by an ostensibly, non-racist. This, of course, assumes that Johnstone knows how to write in Ben's voice.
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Dec 30, 2016 21:42
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The only way I could imagine negroid not being racist is if the speaker was really ignorant and he was trying not to use a slur and accidentally used a different one.
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Dec 30, 2016 22:04
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Elevenquote:“Have there been many visitors around?” Ben asked. It was dusk on the coast and the gulf was as beautiful as the Prussian blue eyes of Jerre; it gleamed softly, bathing the sand with a peaceful glow. For a moment Ben thought of Jerre and he was saddened. Conversation is pleasant, the place has got a reputation for being dangerous since Ike has taught all the women to use guns. Ike is marrying Bell-Ringer. We get a bit of backstory, Bell-ringer was a student working on her PhD, Tatter was a schoolteacher, Honey Poo worked in a bank. Space-Baby worked for the government and Angel-Face was a housewife. A few paragraphs later right before they gently caress we find out that Honey-Poo’s real name is Prudence. Ben decided to stay for the winter, we learn about Ike. quote:Ike flashed that boyish grin. “North Mississippi.” “Are you kidding me?” “I’m serious, Ben. So yeah, I kinda think I know what I’m doing.” He popped the tab on another beer. “My daddy was a member of the Klan, so I grew up hatin’ niggers. Well, I still don’t like niggers, Ben Raines, any more than I like white trash, or sorry Mexicans, or bad Norwegians. Come to think of it, Ben, there is, was, just a whole hell of a lot of folks from Texas I never did cotton to, but that don’t mean there wasn’t a whole lot of real good folks in that state. You see what I’m sayin’? I figured you did. Bell-Ringer isn’t a friend of the family. She’s a real nice person that has a pretty good tan, that’s all.” The Chris Rock routine added absolutely nothing to racist dialog that wasn’t there before. quote:“I had to be sure you understood that, Ike. I have to know her real name, Ike.” “Megan Ann Green. And my name is Ignatius Victor McGowen. And if you call me Ignatius during the ceremony, I’m gonna bust you right in the mouth.” Ike is rich, but he stayed in the Navy because he liked it. quote:Ike shook his head. “I think, Ben, once the initial wave of hatred subsides— if it does”— he put a disclaimer on it—“ you’ll see a lot of changes in the way people think. That was my original thought. But with Logan going in as the next president, and all you’ve told me about him ... I don’t know. I’ve been thinking a lot about that, and also one of those books you wrote: that one about a nation within a nation, a government really for the people and by the people. quote:And I’ve been thinkin’ about your Rebels, too.” Ike isn’t going to push him on the matter, he figures Raines will know when the time is right. They talk about Ben’s dream nation. quote:Ben told him of his dreams, of a land with mountains and valleys and cattle and crops and contented people, all living under laws they had all agreed to live under and with. Political correctness didn’t become a buzzword till much later. A few weeks later the radio tower falls over and the party’s over. quote:Space-Baby and Angel-Face slipped out one night without even saying good-by. “They kinda have this thing for each other,” explained Honey-Poo. This is about as progay as these books get. Later on in the series the books get incredibly homophobic and transphobic. Honey-poo says goodbye to Ben and leaves him with his dog. Ben continues to work on his book eventually arriving at the University of South Florida. The campus is in good condition because ignorant people don’t loot books. quote:… An elderly gentleman sat on a bench, reading a book and eating a sandwich. The man was dressed in a dark suit, white shirt, and dark tie. His shoes were polished, and he was clean-shaven. He looked up. The old guy invites Ben to sit and talk. quote:"Watch Juno," Ben cautioned the man. "He swipes food." This guy seems pretty reasonable. One of the things that always bothered me about survivalists is a lot of them put all this work into surviving a couple more years than other people. There’s no rebuild plan, just hide in a hole seeing nobody else till they die. quote:“And you did what before everybody went away?” quote:The professor clapped his hands and giggled. “Oh, wonderful!” he cried. “Now I can go without feeling guilty about leaving her.” He tells Ben that April, a student is living with him in there quote:“Oh, yes! Now I remember. Yes, well ... April took it upon herself to look after me. Not that I need any looking after, mind you. And she is beginning to annoy me with all her fussing about. She’s not my type of woman at all. Not at all. She is ... rather ... a clinging-vine type. Not that there is anything wrong with that— not at all. She just doesn’t have big titties. I like women with big titties. My wife— God rest her soul, wherever she is— had big titties. I used to love to play with her big titties. Don’t you like big titties?” The is probably the most complex character in the entire series. He goes to find April. quote:
She fills us in on the professor. He was a professor who got barred from teaching for sleeping with too many students. After that he started selling drugs to the student body. He kept bugging April for a handjob but he couldn’t get it up. quote:..I guess the professor told you to take care of me, right?”
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Dec 31, 2016 00:14
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Guavanaut posted:I think that was supposed to be in badass SEAL guy's voice, who may well be a causal racist. Badass SEAL did say it (I was mistaken earlier), but it's been used elsewhere. At least once in the stuff posted here: Throwing Turtles posted:Chapter seven Granted, that part is just racist any way you slice it, i.e. we learn that Ben has Black-dar or something. Like, just to harp on something else I noticed: being good-looking and black are mutually exclusive. It comes up later in how the teen Ben bangs describes the rape-mob as being both "black" but also having some "good looking guys" in it. Throwing Turtles posted:The only way I could imagine negroid not being racist is if the speaker was really ignorant and he was trying not to use a slur and accidentally used a different one. That's what I meant by option 2. I don't know when that ridiculous classification system went out of vogue, as it were. Regardless, the casual racism sprinkled throughout the book says more about Johnstone than anything else, because it just permeates everywhere. Not only in the character's speech and narration (which can, obviously, be explained by racist characters), but in minor plot points and the fact that mini-race wars have erupted everywhere. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the only ones shown not ordering along race lines end up being some white liberals that get killed and have their women raped. Because that's what happen to women, according to Johnstone. Fake edit: Yay! A new chapter.
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Dec 31, 2016 00:23
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Wait, wait. They have sliced bread? Sliced meats? Veggies for the sandwich? Why, of all the utterly idiotic things in that last update, does the existence of a sandwich stand out to me? Honestly, the whole thing is surreal. "I had fleas, so I drove to a pet store and got flea shampoo." Like it was a lazy Saturday afternoon.
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Dec 31, 2016 00:27
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Runcible Cat posted:Ooo, ooo, a couple of pages late but I know an example. Sheri Tepper's SF/fantasy. If you want some really bad SF in the vein of this thread look no further than The Fighter King. Plot could best be summarized as Space Confederates (literally) invade a planet to gain Perfect Scandinavian Women as rape slaves to brainwash (with microchips) and breed. 3.8 stars on Amazon. Party Plane Jones fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Dec 31, 2016 |
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Dec 31, 2016 07:19
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Chapter 12quote:Heading back to his house just a mile south of Ike’s place, now deserted, Ben answered the girl’s seemingly endless chain of questions and asked a few of his own. We get the backstory on April. After the war she went home and found her parents dead, she returned to the school because it’s all she really knew. We learn a little more about the professor. quote:Or had been, that is. I tell you one thing, though. The professor might not have had all his beans baked, but he knew people, and he saw something in you he could trust. Lots of guys had been there before you came— all looking for women. But he never said anything about me.” Characters with ambiguous morality are kind of rare, it’s nice to see someone who falls between super patriot and rape machine. Speaking of rape machines. quote:“How often did you leave the campus?” “Only once after I got back from Orlando. That was when Penny had joined us in the dorm. Penny Butler, from Miami. Seventeen years old. Things had sort of calmed down, and we went for a walk, just to look around, you know? Some guys started chasing us— all of them drunk and mean-looking. They caught Penny. I can still hear her screaming while they were dragging her into a department store. I hid in a grocery store right next to the department store. I was afraid to move; so scared I thought I’d die. I didn’t know what to do. I found a pistol under the cash register, but I didn’t know what to do with it. It was kind of like the one you have on your belt. How do you work the damned thing? I’ve never fired a pistol in my life— any kind of gun, for that matter. She managed to escape when they accidently killed Penny. She asks the important question. quote:“How come there’s so many lovely people in the world? How come they lived and the good people died?” Jerre had asked pretty much the same question. All Ben could do was shake his head. These books make more sense as some kind of rage virus zombie apocalypse. quote:Ben had sensed their time together would not be long, for in their conversations, April had let it be known, loud, clear, and proud, that she was a liberal; she opposed capital punishment, believed in gun control, loved the ACLU, was thrilled with Hilton Logan, hated the military, et cetera. Johnstone always presents liberals as never disagreeing with each other on any topic. We never see someone who’s against the death penalty, but doesn’t give a poo poo about gun control. People occasionally change their mind, but it’s never really about one topic, it’s a full belief shift. quote:Ben had listened to her blather and babble and then had told her that if she so much as mentioned Hilton Logan or the ACLU to him again, she would find herself back on the road— alone. Sometime later on highway 221 to Georgia. quote:They saw no one along the way, but Ben felt certain someone had seen them. Hi senses were working overtime, and he could not shake the feeling of being watched … tracked. Next stop, a church in Moultrie. Somewhere around one hundred survivors. Black and white. quote:“There is no Georgia Militia, Mr. Raines,” a man said. “That was Luther Pitrie and his pack of filth. We’re Christian people here, or try to be; no way would we tolerate that kind of man among us.” Generally if you’re a liberal in these books you’re against self defense, even in the extreme conditions presented in the book. There may be people in real life who are that opposed to self defense, but I wouldn’t classify them as liberal as much as adherents of a pacifist religion. Ben and April are invited to dinner, the topic of conversation is Chicago. One of the parishioners has a brother there and we find out that Ben’s brother Carl is one of the leaders. A black woman has a cousin on the other side. quote:... A Carl Raines is one of the leaders.” “The damned fool!” Ben muttered. “I said the same thing, Mr. Raines,” a black woman said. “My first cousin was on the other side of what took place up there.” White people held the suburbs, black people held the city. The white people cordoned off the city and put it under siege. Winter was very harsh, when the black people holed up in urban areas got tired of dying to exposure they made an attempt to leave. The white people than used the mortars and artillery to wipe them out. quote:“Well,” a local minister said, “if it can be called a victory, the whites did. Then they turned on the Jews, the Latins, the Orientals. Everyone not ... what’s the old term? WASP?” The racists in Chicago are having success recruiting, Ben knows why. quote:“I do,” Ben said. “And I can tell you who they are: businessmen and -women who lost their businesses through boycott or riots; men who had wives or daughters mugged or assaulted or raped by Latins or blacks and then had to watch while our courts turned them loose— if they ever even came to trial— because of the pleadings of some liberal bastard lawyer whining about past wrongs, that had absolutely nothing to do with the crime; store owners who were repeatedly robbed and were unable to do anything about it or who watched criminals turned loose because of some legal technicalities; people who lost their jobs because of hiring practices. It’s a long list, with right and wrong on both sides. But the hate finally exploded into violence— the hate directed toward the minorities. Many of us, of all colors, wrote of its coming. No one paid any attention to us. Well ... now it’s here.” It's telling that he includes boycotts and riots as equally bad. They head into Atlanta. Run up against another road block. Ben threatens them with a grenade giving us this lovely paragraph. quote:“Man, you are nuts! That thing ain’t got no pin in it! Jesus Christ!” he hollered. “Don’t nobody shoot, or nuttin’. This crazy son of a bitch is holding a live grenade.” He tells them to tear the roadblock down, or else. The conversation turns to drivers licenses. quote:But the reasons have always been the real irritant with me: checking for a driver’s license, to make certain it’s the proper license for the state you’re living in. What earthly difference does it make? If you can drive in California you can certainly drive in Utah. Or if you can drive in Hartford you can drive in Dallas. Country should have had one national driver’s license and to hell with it.” He smiled. “That’s one of my very few pet gripes, April.” Ben thinks we should have a national ID. He’s pretty consistent on this point, voter ID but ID has to be national and easy to get. We also get his ideas on drunk driving. quote:April. I have always believed that if a drunk driver kills someone, the charge should be murder— not manslaughter. And”— he grinned—“ nobody on the face of this earth loves a drink of whiskey any more than yours truly. But I don’t drive when I’m drunk, or even drinking very much for that matter. I used to, though. Until one night I almost ran over a kid on a bike. That was about ten years ago. That put a stop to it— for me. Don’t get me started, April. My beliefs are intense.” Ben has unique ideas about where blame falls for a crime. quote:Our laws— back when things were normal, as you put it— were far too lenient on most criminals, especially the drunk driver involved in fatal accidents. So how can you blame the guy for drinking when the penalty for getting caught really, in many states, almost encouraged the drunk driver? No, education and stiff laws are the answer, and then gradually, over a period of years, as people become accustomed to those laws, and a generation grows with them, that’s when you get tough with those who flaunt the law. Not abruptly. Not unless everybody in that state, and I don’t mean fifty-one percent of the population, I mean about ninety percent of the population, agrees with those harsh laws. This fifty-one/ forty-nine plurality is now and always has been, to my way of thinking, a crock of poo poo.” The conversation starts to jump all over the place here. School prayer should be allowed, but zero tolerance to those who give the kids who don’t pray poo poo. In fact he calls for an end to bullying. quote:The kid who chooses to pursue a life of music is often— ninety-nine percent of the time— subjected to taunts and jeers and ridicule for his choice, while the kid who wants to play sports is adored and given honors. The sadness of it, April, is this: the kids who ridicule and jeer have to have learned it at home; their parents have to be condoning it. Perhaps not knowingly, but still condoning it. If they do no more than refuse to broaden intellectual horizons, they’re condoning and passing their ignorance on to their kids.”
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Dec 31, 2016 19:44
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Thanks for doing this. It takes me back. I read the dozen or so Ashes books my dad had when I was in high school and a sucker for any post apocalyptic fiction. It was almost 20 years ago now, but I remember them as being entertaining if repetitive. After a couple books, Ben does take his army to kill all the urban ferals, city by city, but at the time, I didn't know what Freep was.
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Dec 31, 2016 21:57
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It's kind of interesting to speculate on what the "money shots" here are, i.e. what scenes are the ones that the author envisioned before writing the book. With pulp like this you usually get a sense that most of the story is the delivery vehicle for specific kinds of situations or descriptions or set pieces. The author has something they want to convey and they build a story around that. Based on the books description I was thinking these would be stories about survivalism, but there's less survivalist porn here than I would have expected. There's some guns and explosives stockpiling porn but seemingly not very many loving descriptions of actually surviving in an environment where non-contaminated food and potable water are scarce or dealing with radiation. The protagonist always sleeps in comfortable beds and doesn't seem to worry very much about being attacked in his sleep. What there is a lot of are scenes where black people and women comment on what a resourceful, intelligent and virile man the author-insert protagonist is, or how extremely correct his political views are. This is especially striking given how much time all the characters are spending talking about really trivial political issues like bullying musicians or the appropriate punishment for drunk drivers. The entire loving world is gone. Why does anyone give a poo poo about these issues, let alone enough of a poo poo to want to have long monologue-style conversations about them. Except of course these diatribes are seemingly the point of the book which is why everything else is molded around them. Helsing fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Dec 31, 2016 |
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Dec 31, 2016 22:57
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Throwing Turtles posted:These books make more sense as some kind of rage virus zombie apocalypse. So, Crossed?
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Jan 1, 2017 01:14
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JcDent posted:So, Crossed?  good stuff
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Jan 1, 2017 01:42
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Helsing posted:It's kind of interesting to speculate on what the "money shots" here are, i.e. what scenes are the ones that the author envisioned before writing the book. With pulp like this you usually get a sense that most of the story is the delivery vehicle for specific kinds of situations or descriptions or set pieces. The author has something they want to convey and they build a story around that. I'm roughly in the same boat as well regarding confusion at the extent of the apocalypse the book has described. It honestly just sounds like a sort-of survivalist take on the rapture where a lot of people have vanished leaving behind a relatively pristine world ripe for Ben to take advantage of.
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Jan 1, 2017 12:02
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Wang_Tang posted:I'm roughly in the same boat as well regarding confusion at the extent of the apocalypse the book has described. It honestly just sounds like a sort-of survivalist take on the rapture where a lot of people have vanished leaving behind a relatively pristine world ripe for Ben to take advantage of. Maybe the nukes spontaneously turned into neutron bombs? God drat this book is loving terrible. Everything is just complete poo poo. "Hey you loving liberal I don't want to hear any of your ideas because my beliefs are so intense and if you don't do what I say I'll leave you to be raped to death alone. BTW I'm the hero and I'm in favor of 'freedom.'"
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Jan 1, 2017 15:52
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JonathonSpectre posted:Maybe the nukes spontaneously turned into neutron bombs?
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Jan 1, 2017 18:12
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Throwing Turtles posted:Generally if you’re a liberal in these books you’re against self defense, even in the extreme conditions presented in the book. There may be people in real life who are that opposed to self defense, but I wouldn’t classify them as liberal as much as adherents of a pacifist religion. To a certain paranoid and reactionary mindset, "self defense" means "get them before they get me". And they take it as an article of faith - as seen in this book - that the vast majority of Them are absolutely out to get Me and People Like Me given half a chance (note how many white characters simply state as fact that black people are doing all this awful stuff even before the end of the world), so any refusal to get Them first must be attributable to being evil and complicit, or in the best case stupidly naïve.
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Jan 1, 2017 20:02
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Chapter 13 These books are full of terrible things, and your safe assuming everything bad in these books is in here. But some people may not have thought about certain edge cases. So I'll put a warning before those posts. This chapter contains elder abuse. quote:Ben had pulled off the interstate just a few miles south of Fort Valley and headed east. “Just wandering,” he told April. “We’re not on any timetable.” I agree with angry teacher lady, Johnstone shouldn’t write sex scenes. He’s not good at it, quote:Ben laughed. “But I’ll bet you read every word, didn’t you, ma’am?” She grinned and moved out onto the porch. “I taught English for fifty-five years, Mr. Raines. You need to learn about the positioning of adverbs and the splitting of compound verbs.” The likable grammar nazi brings us up to speed, a gang of hooligans and roughnecks are roaming the countryside, preying on the elderly who survived God’s will. They’ve taken all but one gun, humiliated the men and smashed the vehicles and started raping the women. In that order. Mrs.Sikes was first the youngest at 62, on the next visit they intend to rape the next youngest Mrs. Carson at sixty-five. They intend to keep raping one woman a visit. Ben says that he will help. quote:“Yes,” the schoolteacher replied. “And correct me if I’m wrong, sir, but didn’t I read in some column that you had been a mercenary at one time?” That night Ben is a dick to April because she is a strawman. quote:
Homer was in the basement guarding the rest with a shotgun Ben gave him. quote:A riot gun, sawed-off barrel, eight rounds of three-inch magnums in the slot. Sometimes these books feel like a long unpaid gun advertisement. Ben hears them long before he sees them. quote:He heard them long before he saw them. They came in fancy vans, their loud mufflers roaring. Rock and roll music was pushed through straining speakers; it offended the quiet and the beauty of early spring. I always wonder what horrible rock and roll the people in these books are listening to. I assume it’s something Johnstone hated when he was writing at the time, but actually looking at it just leaves me with more questions. At the time top 40 was decidedly adult contemporary, Juice Newton, America, Christopher Cross were all big that year, and I can see not liking it but I can’t see a gang of die hard murders and rapists rolling out to it. http://thenostalgiamachine.com/y/#1982 Punk was around, and I could see Johnstone calling it rock and roll, but I can’t imagine he heard very much of it. He came of age in the sixties so I can’t imagine him finding much of that offensive. I think it comes down to the fact that he really hates AC/DC quote:The lead van roared to a stop amid squalling tires. Four vans in all. Ms. Browning wants Ben to kill them all, and is praying for forgiveness for wanting it. quote:“What’s on your mind, hotshot?” The punk on the passenger side sneered at Ben. Ben knew the only thing a person outnumbered can do is attack. And that’s what he did. At the sound of the roaring mufflers, Ben had pulled the pin of the fragmentation grenade and held the spoon down. He smiled at the punk. The entire fight is him throwing grenades. A couple of survivors surrender. Ben turns them over to the elderly to do with as they see fit, the punks are hanged. He sets them up with guns, CBs and some other equipment, shows them how to use it. April and Ben get in a truly stupid argument about social programs and April asks to be dropped off at a nearby gathering. Ben finds a dealership and swaps out vehicles. quote:He installed a new battery, changed the oil, and patted the accelerator. The pickup fired at first crank. “American workmanship isn’t dead,” Ben muttered. “Just most Americans.” He heads into Dobbins AFB prowls around and quote:As Ben drove out of the base, he passed the headquarters building. A few red, white, and blue rags fluttered in the breeze atop the flag pole.
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Jan 1, 2017 20:30
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Where is everyone getting all these guns? I thought the evil liberals had confiscated them all.
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Jan 2, 2017 10:08
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Everyone had hidden them, duh. Every sporting goods store had stuff like that stashed, don't you remember? I wonder if the Granny Rape Pact Pack is the stupidest group we'll encounter in the book.
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Jan 2, 2017 15:16
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For people who think rape almost never happens, conservatives sure do love to write about it. Incidentally, my grandma who was born in Oklahoma in 1911 always said "negro." She was a die-hard liberal, a Unitarian, and a literal card-carrying ACLU member, but she was old and set in her ways and so she continued to use the term that was polite when she was younger.
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Jan 3, 2017 06:16
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I like how this type of patriot fiction has a running theme that sissy ivory tower liberals can't handle the "real world"... which is achieved by setting the story in a post apocalyptic fantasy world completely detached from reality.
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Jan 3, 2017 22:05
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I actually wonder when he wrote the first book. I know it was *published* in the early '80s, but all this stuff about "the Negros" and the horrors of rock and roll make it sound like it was something he was writing in the 60s/70s. Maybe it just took a while to get published?
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Jan 3, 2017 22:18
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pookel posted:I actually wonder when he wrote the first book. I know it was *published* in the early '80s, but all this stuff about "the Negros" and the horrors of rock and roll make it sound like it was something he was writing in the 60s/70s. Maybe it just took a while to get published? Conservative culture in the 1980s was all about reacting to the perceived horrors and excesses of the liberalism of the civil rights movement, the counter-culture and the Great Society. All the comments in this book about people being incapable of caring for themselves without government, the state being too soft on criminals and the inevitability of racial strife (with the subtext that the federal government shouldn't have cracked down segregation) were extremely topical when this book came out. It's hard to appreciate now just how inevitable the advance of leftist ideas and causes seemed to be prior to the 1990s. You really see it in this book. Conservatives were very gloomy about the future even after Reagan's election and many of them assumed they were fighting a rearguard action against the inevitable. If you read the trilateral commissions report on the 'Crisis of Democracy' from 1975 of the Powell Memorandum from '73 you can get a sense of how concerned the establishment and it's conservative defenders were about the direction of the country and of the world. People didn't appreciate that communism was on the verge of collapse in the East or that the tide of social reformism that produced so many new social programs and regulatory agencies in the West was hitting it's high watermark and was about to start receding. So the feeling was that all the new and scary developments unleashed in the 60s and 70s would just continue indefinitely into the future and that eventually society would collapse into total anarchy. The rising crime rate and general culture of pessimism that took hold by the end of the 1970s exacerbated this feeling. You have to also remember somebody who was born in 1950 would have been in their teens when the conflicts of the 1960s and early 70s were raging and 30 when Reagan was first elected so to them all these issues were the debates of their formative political years, not events of the distant past. It makes sense all these anxieties were reflected in the pulp fiction of the era, just like our contemporary films are all obsessed with issues like government cover-ups or terrorism.
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Jan 3, 2017 23:17
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Helsing posted:Conservative culture in the 1980s was all about reacting to the perceived horrors and excesses of the liberalism of the civil rights movement, the counter-culture and the Great Society. All the comments in this book about people being incapable of caring for themselves without government, the state being too soft on criminals and the inevitability of racial strife (with the subtext that the federal government shouldn't have cracked down segregation) were extremely topical when this book came out. My parents were Reagan Democrats who turned into Rush Limbaugh Republicans during my formative years, so these are all attitudes I've heard ad nauseam (and shared until I got old enough to know better).
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Jan 3, 2017 23:45
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Chapter 15quote:Ben changed his mind about going to Louisiana, knowing the only reason for the visit was to see Salina. He then spends the rest of this very long paragraph on travel details and fishing. quote:...Juno growled low in his chest. Pal recognizes Ben, and they talk about the Chicago Nazis and Ben’s brother. Ben offers them dinner. Then they talk about Ben’s books. Cause of course Pal has read them. Ben is this universe's gun swinging J.K. Rowling. quote:“‘Way you write, hard law and order, I had to think you were a racist--at first. Then you did some other books that had me confused about your … reasoning. What is your political philosophy, Ben? If you don’t mind me asking, that is.” Ben describes himself as apolitical, pissed off at everything then lists unions, the ACLU, and the government. They both hate President Logan. They talk about future plans, nation building and New Africa. quote:”No,” Pal said quietly. “I suppose not. White people have always been fearful of an all black nation, whether you will admit it, or not. But I suppose we have to try. I have a masters in science: Valerie, a master’s in business. They are going to need teachers. It also took them an absurdly long time to get guns. Today guns are everywhere in games, movies, television. I can’t imagine treating guns being as alien to people as they are to the liberals in these books. Ben lectures them finally bringing up Logan. quote:“We talked about him. O.K., so he wasn’t what he appeared to be. But he was a damned sight better than Nixon, wasn’t he?” Defending Nixon in 1983 has got to be a lonely job. Ben takes is itinerant preacher show to Kansas where he meets a Navy Doctor named Lamar Chase. Nothing interesting happens in this scene. But Chase is going to be in the books forever, so this is where we meet him. Ben calls Ike and give the orders for everybody to start heading west. We get some insight into how Logan is handling his office. quote:Americans will take only so much pushing before they begin shoving back. It takes a lot of shoving, but even mild-mannered people have a point one had best not step past. After three decades of wasteful spending, high taxes, a terrible no-win war, political upheaval, race riots, several near-depressions, and, finally, a world war unequaled in history, many of those Americans left alive . . . got mad. The Admiral likes Logan’s relocation plan, but doesn’t want to force people to do it if they aren’t interested. Leaving aside politics, he doesn’t have the resources to do it. Logan has revealed his final form as an eighties cartoon villain, and wants it all now. He’s also mad at the dastardly rebels for smashing all those planes. He also wants loyal officers so he fires the Admiral and brings in the mercenary Kenneth Parr to replace him.
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Jan 4, 2017 01:56
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quote:Ben pulled into his driveway at five o’clock in the afternoon. Nothing had changed except the lawn had flowers where none had been before. There was a station wagon parked beside the house. Ben has come home, and it looks like New Africa is getting set up. Ben decides that there’s plenty of land so there is no point spilling blood for one acre in Louisiana. At his house he finds Salina has moved in and cleaned up a bit. quote:“You’re a bachelor--a man.” She smiled. “Most bachelors aren’t much on housekeeping.” A mischievous light crept into her eyes. “‘Sides she mush-mounted, “us coons have been trained for centuries to take care of the master’s house while he’s away seein to matters of great import.” Sitting down after dinner with Cecil and the family the conversation turns to race. quote:“Another month,” Cecil said, “and we’ll have full power restored. So the engineers tell me.” We also learn Kasim didn’t show because Ben was going to be there, and that Kasim also has a crush on Salina. Ben tells Cecil that he won’t be able to have a society with people like Kasim in it. Then it get’s weird. quote:“You’re welcome to spend the night with us, Ben,” Lila said. The conversation turns to Kasim quote:“Willie, you mean?” Ben said, the words popping from his mouth before he could bite them off. Valerie looked blank; she, of course, would know nothing of Kasim’s Christian name. Ben restates his solution to racism quote:“Education on both sides, yes. And conformity on both sides, as well Root cause.” Politics quote:“Ready? Good. In an election, blacks will vote color rather than intellectually, even though the black man may be less qualified than the white. Yes, that’s true. At least in nearly every election I’ve ever seen. But, my God, Ben, how else could the black people get representation. I mean . . . after all, we’re supposed to remain in our place. Wherever in the hell that is. Then he goes off to sleep with Selina. Race plus sex is extra awkward. quote:“That’s better. Sure you want to travel with a zebra?”
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Jan 4, 2017 20:46
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Dude has a really, REALLY weird fixation with race, even for the era and the political bent. God drat.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:06
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"The world has ended. NIGGERS!" - this book
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Jan 5, 2017 05:55
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