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Concordat posted:I was under the assumption it had the humpback that keeps pilots from being able to see because it needed room for the lift fan.  You can zoom in on that and see there are differences between the 3 jets; they all have limited visibility to the aft. Especially the F-35B. The plan is to give the pilots magical helmets that lets them see through the aircraft. Karl Sharks posted:like okay my point is I'd go more in on the F-35B, more baby navy carriers too. Supercarriers are cool but they are big targets, maybe have 3x baby carriers all with F-35Bs instead. I'd also have an F-35D with two seats and hella comms / computers for managing a wing of semi autonomous drones. Kinda like a Command F-35.
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Dec 23, 2016 01:11
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Baloogan posted:I'd go more in on the F-35B, more baby navy carriers too. Supercarriers are cool but they are big targets, maybe have 3x baby carriers all with F-35Bs instead. what carriers can it not take off conventionally from though? i thought marines wanted the VTOL so they could use "baby carriers" in the sense that they're limited solely to VTOL and amphibious, designed more for helicopters that and the dumb lily-pads thing they had?? lol i mean i'd rather improve what we have that has been shown the work than try to force VTOL on a jet plane isn't it bad that they have just a single engine too?
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Dec 23, 2016 01:20
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they are replacing jets that have a single engine (F-16), and yeah I'd rather multiple engines but that makes jet harder to maintain and there are millions of tradeoffs with military jet engines that I don't know enough to really get into F-35B is STOVL short take off, vtol landing, important distinction. F-35B and F-35C are carrier capable. F-35B can land and take off from baby carriers, F-35C and A can't.
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Dec 23, 2016 01:24
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do you think the f-35 was/is supposed to replace the f-22? i don't know if you replied to my post, but like why did we stop production and seemingly have nothing in the works to replace it with if the f-35 isn't supposed to replace it as well
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Dec 23, 2016 01:28
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AFAIK the -22 and -35 were designed to be complimentary The 22 replaces the F-15 and the 35 replaces the F-16, F-18, Harrier and perhaps the A-10
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Dec 23, 2016 01:30
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yeh ^^ diffo airplanes v F-22 is much bigger Karl Sharks posted:
drat shame i kno
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Dec 23, 2016 01:31
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Baloogan posted:nah, F-22 is its own thing why did we stop production fully in 2012 though like it seems like the f-35 was seen as a replacement for it as well, so why bother making more? or maybe it was just resources they'd rather devote to f-35 design/production since it's a better money maker
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Dec 23, 2016 01:33
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Karl Sharks posted:why did we stop production fully in 2012 though i don't really know too much behind the politics of procurement but I bet it involved whos state what parts were built in yadda yadda pork barrel if there was money lockheed wouldn't say no ever 
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Dec 23, 2016 01:35
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the F-35 was not and still isn't a replacement for the F-22 no matter how good they make the 35 the Raptor will still wax that rear end procurement is a loving bog of idiocy though
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Dec 23, 2016 01:38
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VikingSkull posted:the F-35 was not and still isn't a replacement for the F-22 bog of idiocy? now you're speaking my language
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Dec 23, 2016 01:39
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so what's the relative cost of an f-18 and an f-35, i.e. how many f-18's could you buy for the price of one f-35, and would that number of f-18's beat the f-35 in a fight, or is this like a RPG where each ten extra points of damage on your sword costs twice as many gold pieces as the last ten
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Dec 23, 2016 02:01
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i always found the F-35 tricky to operate in BF2 turns out the dev team was just really on the ball https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zhv71M5xXJY A-10 forever 
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Dec 23, 2016 02:16
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smoke weed
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Dec 23, 2016 02:17
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Duscat posted:so what's the relative cost of an f-18 and an f-35, i.e. how many f-18's could you buy for the price of one f-35, and would that number of f-18's beat the f-35 in a fight, or is this like a RPG where each ten extra points of damage on your sword costs twice as many gold pieces as the last ten its more like the sword does the same amount of damage and also hurts you, but still costs 4x as much
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Dec 23, 2016 02:19
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W A R T H O G  "Why don't we put a gatling cannon in the air, but add wings to it." "Na man yer crazy"
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Dec 23, 2016 02:36
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VTOL is still dumb and places too many constraints on the capabilities of the plane to be worth the cost and complexity. Any CATOBAR plane is going to have greater range, loiter time, and carry a heavier payload than a VTOL off a baby carrier.Karl Sharks posted:like okay my point is RAND did a study on this question, asking "Do Joint Fighter programs save money?" The answer is No.
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Dec 23, 2016 02:59
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The air force is ineffective
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Dec 23, 2016 03:00
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Concordat posted:VTOL is still dumb and places too many constraints on the capabilities of the plane to be worth the cost and complexity. Any CATOBAR plane is going to have greater range, loiter time, and carry a heavier payload than a VTOL off a baby carrier. ya gotta factor in the cost of the supercarrier
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Dec 23, 2016 03:01
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Duscat posted:so what's the relative cost of an f-18 and an f-35, i.e. how many f-18's could you buy for the price of one f-35, and would that number of f-18's beat the f-35 in a fight, or is this like a RPG where each ten extra points of damage on your sword costs twice as many gold pieces as the last ten https://youtu.be/IWJeqrvoF6M
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Dec 23, 2016 03:02
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Uncle Wemus posted:The air force is ineffective The Air Force is fine, it's the Navy's Army's Air Force that fucks everything up
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Dec 23, 2016 03:03
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Baloogan posted:ya gotta factor in the cost of the supercarrier Right, I'm just saying you can't have VTOL planes replace the roles of CATOBAR planes, the capabilities are not identical.
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Dec 23, 2016 03:14
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Concordat posted:Right, I'm just saying you can't have VTOL planes replace the roles of CATOBAR planes, the capabilities are not identical. but the LCS lets us gain control of the littorals! we don't need range! -a dumbshit Navy guy
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Dec 23, 2016 03:15
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VikingSkull posted:The Air Force is fine, it's the Navy's Army's Air Force that fucks everything up The Air Force has its problems, namely that it is run almost entirely by fighter jocks who hate their more important missions (ground strike, logistics). But the marines make them look flawless.
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Dec 23, 2016 03:17
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Concordat posted:Right, I'm just saying you can't have VTOL planes replace the roles of CATOBAR planes, the capabilities are not identical. STOVL. And go look at the range of F/A-18 vs F-35B with strike loadouts.
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Dec 23, 2016 03:18
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Mariana Horchata posted:i always found the F-35 tricky to operate in BF2 We still have these occasionally practicing over our valley. It loving owns.
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Dec 23, 2016 03:19
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Baloogan posted:STOVL. Not sure where I can find that info and I'm too lazy to do it before bed. But Wikipedia's listed ranges show the Hornet, Super Hornet, and Harrier II all have longer range than the F-35B?
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Dec 23, 2016 03:28
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Concordat posted:Not sure where I can find that info and I'm too lazy to do it before bed. But Wikipedia's listed ranges show the Hornet, Super Hornet, and Harrier II all have longer range than the F-35B? They are all around ~1,200 miles, but the Hornets and Harrier do so with a minimal A2A loadout while the 35B can do so with a full internal loadout.
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Dec 23, 2016 03:51
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It's bad trash for babies and its operating costs may ruin small countries in the future. I'm looking forward to it being the same way as the tiger by future war gaming groganrds. 
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Dec 23, 2016 04:09
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Concordat posted:RAND did a study on this question, asking "Do Joint Fighter programs save money?" oh, cheers for that Baloogan posted:STOVL. look at the ages of the F/A-18 and F-35B
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Dec 23, 2016 04:18
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In January, the U.S. Defense Department announced plans to fund a Darpa-Air Force-Navy technology demonstration program aimed at developing critical sixth-generation fighter capabilities. The Aerospace Innovation Initiative will develop common avionics, subsystems, engine technologies and other components that could be used on separate Air Force and Navy airframes. This announcement is an encouraging sign that the Pentagon is adopting a cost-effective strategy for joint fighter programs. However, it will need to remain vigilant to avoid the pitfalls that have caused previous joint fighter programs to fall short of hoped-for cost savings and to accept unwelcome design compromises. lol
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Dec 23, 2016 04:36
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http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/12/middleeast/israel-f-35-jets/ I think the program still exists, basically, only because Israel wants to buy them.
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Dec 23, 2016 04:38
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hmmmmmmmmm i don't watch anime so I don't recognize the material in the op, which manga is this
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Dec 23, 2016 04:44
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Lightning was in FF XIII I think??
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Dec 23, 2016 04:44
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Karl Sharks posted:In January, the U.S. Defense Department announced plans to fund a Darpa-Air Force-Navy technology demonstration program aimed at developing critical sixth-generation fighter capabilities. The Aerospace Innovation Initiative will develop common avionics, subsystems, engine technologies and other components that could be used on separate Air Force and Navy airframes. This announcement is an encouraging sign that the Pentagon is adopting a cost-effective strategy for joint fighter programs. However, it will need to remain vigilant to avoid the pitfalls that have caused previous joint fighter programs to fall short of hoped-for cost savings and to accept unwelcome design compromises. unwelcome design compromises, like being forced to make an ejector seat that doesn't kill pilots yes the designers got mad about being forced to fix that
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Dec 23, 2016 04:45
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at least that ejector seat trolling doesn't get me riled up at all
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Dec 23, 2016 04:51
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Baloogan posted:at least that ejector seat trolling doesn't get me riled up at all have you seen how many geese are in the US?
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Dec 23, 2016 05:00
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Baloogan posted:at least that ejector seat trolling doesn't get me riled up at all i mean its actually a thing that happened and they got mad about fixing it
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Dec 23, 2016 05:03
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 there are interesting trolls on the '35 and then there are some things that aren't interesting (to me)
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Dec 23, 2016 05:18
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Rest in piss expensive airplane that goons hated.
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Dec 23, 2016 06:01
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all this thread reminds me of is Ace Combat 5 : The Unsung War the wings of R A Z G R I Z  
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Dec 23, 2016 09:05
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