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crazy cloud posted:hmmmmmmmmm i don't watch anime so I don't recognize the material in the op, which manga is this macross if only the pentagon would realize our greatest weapon is protoculture, the US would be invincible
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Dec 23, 2016 09:10
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what sort of good things for the american people could this money have been better spent on? like are there actual numbers like nobody goes hungry for a year or whatever
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Dec 23, 2016 09:27
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Lawman 0 posted:bad trash for babies don't sign the beginning of your posts
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Dec 23, 2016 09:43
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gently caress that stupid loving fan gently caress svtol/vtol, that poo poo does not matter build a proper loving carrier or go home jesus
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Dec 23, 2016 16:14
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the air force having to deal with a stupid loving plane, hosed up by having too many design requirements/feature creep, is loving karma for the air force ruining the space shuttle
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Dec 23, 2016 16:55
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is there a reason the marines feel the need to have the ability invade any tiny lovely island with their babby carriers and bad planes to the point where they cripple the rest of the us millitary and our allies with Noted Bad Plane F-35 II other then bad feelings over the battle of guadalcanal
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Dec 23, 2016 17:00
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do you really need a reason to want an aircraft carrier of your own? the question isn't why they want it, the question is why they get it
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Dec 23, 2016 17:14
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Because the last time the marines had any relevance was the Pacific Campaign in WWII
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Dec 23, 2016 17:14
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Why can't the Air Force use the Navy version? Is there some huge performance penalty to the carrier specific modifications?
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Dec 23, 2016 17:44
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Bubbacub posted:Is there some huge performance penalty to the carrier specific modifications? yeah
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Dec 23, 2016 17:50
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Bubbacub posted:Why can't the Air Force use the Navy version? Is there some huge performance penalty to the carrier specific modifications? the wings fold, its built 'stronger' due to having to survive multiple carrier landings every day forever, its bigger, bigger wings, bigger control surfaces, more fuel also with china building tiny islands you know the marines are fuckin erect thinking about how to take em
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Dec 23, 2016 17:54
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Baloogan posted:also with china building tiny islands you know the marines are fuckin erect thinking about how to take em some sort of giant fan imo
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Dec 23, 2016 18:01
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to be fair to the Marines they are always erect about something
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Dec 23, 2016 18:02
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Baloogan posted:also with china building tiny islands you know the marines are fuckin erect thinking about how to take em just fuckin' shell that poo poo the F-35 is such a piece of poo poo plane it's amazing you'd think for 1.5 trillion dollars we could have gotten something actually worthwhile. It tries to do everything and as a result can't do any one thing well at all.
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Dec 23, 2016 18:03
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What's funny about the F-35 is while it's bloated in cost and people on the internet hate it, people that actually fly it love the drat thing.
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Dec 23, 2016 18:13
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Lastgirl posted:all this thread reminds me of is go dance with the angels! 
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Dec 23, 2016 18:15
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THE F35 IS A PIECE OF poo poo 💩💩💩💩💩
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Dec 23, 2016 18:17
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Zikan posted:is there a reason the marines feel the need to have the ability invade any tiny lovely island with their babby carriers and bad planes to the point where they cripple the rest of the us millitary and our allies with Noted Bad Plane F-35 II other then bad feelings over the battle of guadalcanal look into your heart you know the answer VikingSkull posted:What's funny about the F-35 is while it's bloated in cost and people on the internet hate it, people that actually fly it love the drat thing. well, yeah, it's a new shiny toy with cool new tech on it like they'd love to fly the alternate universe plane(s) that wasn't a joint program, probably even more
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Dec 23, 2016 18:20
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VikingSkull posted:What's funny about the F-35 is while it's bloated in cost and people on the internet hate it, people that actually fly it love the drat thing.
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Dec 23, 2016 18:26
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i also gotta say imo its a russian / chinese plot all the bad press the F-35 is getting. like, its dumb to assume that the biggest procurement project in human history is not getting any misinfo information war style poo poo like, yall russian stooges if ya don't love the F-35
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Dec 23, 2016 18:36
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lamo you guys are AGREEING With trump lol, suck it
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Dec 23, 2016 18:36
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rudatron posted:yeah i guess it must be fine to fly a cool plane that you will never have to pay for they pay for it by dedicating their lives to it...
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Dec 23, 2016 18:37
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I mean, if it was American pilots that were sucking its dick I could say yeah, they have to say that or whatever but it seems unanimous from all the other nations too. Procurement is a dumpster fire and deserves to be criticized but I think, in the end, the F-35 will be a fine aircraft.
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Dec 23, 2016 18:50
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VikingSkull posted:What's funny about the F-35 is while it's bloated in cost and people on the internet hate it, people that actually fly it love the drat thing. Cite sources I guess? 'Cuz anecdotal but I live near a major AF base and I talked to one officer who pretty loudly said 'it's a goddamn poo poo plane' after a couple drinks. I also know a computer engineer at Northrop-Grumman and he tells me they're constantly trying to get him to work on the F35 project but he refuses because in his own words "F35 is where engineers go to die."
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Dec 23, 2016 18:54
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Moridin920 posted:Cite sources I guess? 'Cuz anecdotal but I live near a major AF base and I talked to one officer who pretty loudly said 'it's a goddamn poo poo plane' after a couple drinks. I also know a computer engineer at Northrop-Grumman and he tells me they're constantly trying to get him to work on the F35 project but he refuses because in his own words "F35 is where engineers go to die." http://www.businessinsider.com/why-f-35-worth-every-penny-heritage-foundation-2016-8/#-4 https://theaviationist.com/2016/03/01/heres-what-ive-learned-so-far-dogfighting-in-the-f-35-a-jsf-pilot-first-hand-account/ http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/us-air-force-pilot-the-f-35-stealth-fighter-the-worlds-best-16790 there's a bunch more out there too, but I'm sure you have Google
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Dec 23, 2016 19:04
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Jose posted:what sort of good things for the american people could this money have been better spent on? like are there actual numbers like nobody goes hungry for a year or whatever Awhile ago I smashed some numbers and determined, after accounting for inflation, the JSF program has cost more than the Interstate Highway System, International Space Station, Space Shuttle Program, and Apollo program combined. And all those things combined only get to about half the cost of the JSF program.
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Dec 23, 2016 19:06
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Baloogan posted:
The design that's the most stupid and dysfunctional? Yeah, I'd double, nay, triple down on that. *Slams hand on table*
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Dec 23, 2016 19:19
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VikingSkull posted:http://www.businessinsider.com/why-f-35-worth-every-penny-heritage-foundation-2016-8/#-4 Dude says some cool things about it I didn't know, specifically about the angle of attack stuff. However, quote:What I initially found to a bit negative in visual combat was the cockpit view, which wasn’t as good as in the F-16. The cockpit view from the F-16 was good – better than in any other fighter I have flown. I could turn around and look at the opposite wingtip; turn to the right, look over the «back» of the airplane and see the left wingtip. That´s not quite possible in the F-35, because the headrest blocks some of the view. Therefore, I was a bit frustrated during my first few BFM-sorties. However, It turned out that practice was all it took to improve the situation. Now I compensate by moving forward in the seat and leaning slightly sideways, before turning my head and looking backwards. In this way I can look around the sides of the seat. I also use my hands to brace against the cockpit glass and the canopy frame. He goes on to say that isn't that big of a deal really but........ gently caress man that seems lovely as hell esp given the cost of the plane. VikingSkull posted:https://theaviationist.com/2016/03/01/heres-what-ive-learned-so-far-dogfighting-in-the-f-35-a-jsf-pilot-first-hand-account/ quote:"While the prices of these six fighters can be debated, none of the fourth-generation or four-plus-generation jets can compete with the air-to-ground capabilities of the F-35," Venable writes. Okay but those planes weren't designed to be bombers anyway right? What's the point of that comparison? The second bit is just the standard 'the stealth is so pro dude you don't even know' line. VikingSkull posted:http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/us-air-force-pilot-the-f-35-stealth-fighter-the-worlds-best-16790 That last one idk it just seems like some marketing stuff on the military's part. Dude didn't really say anything specific other than "yeah the plane is good wouldn't rather be in any other." Might as well just be LM press materials. Here's a January 2016 report by J Gilmore, one of the Pentagon's top weapons testers, as part of his annual review that goes to Congress: http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/FY2015/pdf/dod/2015f35jsf.pdf It's 48 pages long mostly consisting of 'this plane sucks' so I'll spare you tons of quotes and give you the summary: quote:The operational suitability of all variants continues to be less than desired by the Services and relies heavily on contractor support and workarounds that would be difficult to employ in a combat environment. Almost all measures of performance have improved over the past year, but most continue to be below their interim goals to achieve acceptable suitability by the time the fleet accrues 200,000 flight hours, the benchmark set by the program and defined in the Operational Requirements Document (ORD) for the aircraft to meet reliability and maintainability requirements. And he recommends against the block buy. Moridin920 has issued a correction as of 19:37 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 19:34
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https://warisboring.com/test-pilot-admits-the-f-35-can-t-dogfight-cdb9d11a875#.5yo29itk0quote:The test pilot explained that he has also flown 1980s-vintage F-15E fighter-bombers and found the F-35 to be “substantially inferior” to the older plane when it comes to managing energy in a close battle. lmao e: from that 48 page report because just loving lol quote:▪ All variants of the fleet Block 2B aircraft are restricted i can't even Moridin920 has issued a correction as of 19:43 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 19:38
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I feel like we need to throw out the middle man and just learn how to make humans fly and shoot out laser beams.
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Dec 23, 2016 19:44
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Man that congressional report is some gold thoughquote:Results from 3iR6 flight testing demonstrated partial I mean 
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Dec 23, 2016 19:45
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"Multirole" means that they were designed as a strike aircraft, which means they are capable of A2A or ground attack, but yeah you won't see me argue the procurement and cost overrun issues, that's a clusterfuck. On the F-15 dude's point, well yeah, one of the most powerful twin engine aircraft ever built should manage energy better than a smaller single engine craft. At the end of the day it's a modified interceptor, which is the role the F-22 holds now and would be a better comparison. It's like saying the F-14 is better than the F-16, well, yeah.
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Dec 23, 2016 19:45
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Baloogan posted:lamo you guys are AGREEING With trump lol, suck it i have no problem agreeing with trump on some issues. its just that we horribly disagree on other issues!!!
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Dec 23, 2016 19:48
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VikingSkull posted:I mean, if it was American pilots that were sucking its dick I could say yeah, they have to say that or whatever but it seems unanimous from all the other nations too. we'll just have to see when they start going up against chinese and iranian fighters and air defenses huh???
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Dec 23, 2016 19:51
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Darkman Fanpage posted:we'll just have to see when they start going up against chinese and iranian jets huh??? inshallah e- the actual reason the US is so good in the air is training and doctrine 95% and tools used 5%, turns out that directed control from the ground isn't as good as forward control from the air and ability to make decisions on the fly
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Dec 23, 2016 19:52
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Concordat posted:Awhile ago I smashed some numbers and determined, after accounting for inflation, the JSF program has cost more than the Interstate Highway System, International Space Station, Space Shuttle Program, and Apollo program combined. And all those things combined only get to about half the cost of the JSF program. lol and vikingskull, a man who hasn't and probably never will fly one, keeps defending it on that basis
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Dec 23, 2016 19:59
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Jose posted:lol and vikingskull, a man who hasn't and probably never will fly one, keeps defending it on that basis did you not read the multiple times in this thread where I said the procurement was a clusterfuck? here it is again, just to make it clear the procurement process, not just for the F-35 but for almost all things in the military, is a clusterfuck
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Dec 23, 2016 20:02
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i meant defending it as being fun to fly
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Dec 23, 2016 20:02
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VikingSkull posted:turns out that directed control isn't as good as forward control and ability to make decisions on the fly as an aside, this is a doctrinal thing that did us super well in WW2 - officers were encouraged to pursue the mission as best they saw fit and were given slightly broader mission goals whereas other nations' officers had very specific instructions and would have to get orders from commanders in the event of a tactical shift which enabled us to react to changing battlefield situations better If I recall correctly that is. Moridin920 has issued a correction as of 20:06 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 20:03
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Jose posted:i meant defending it as being fun to fly then why did you quote a post talking exclusively about the cost of the program
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Dec 23, 2016 20:03
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