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Avenging Dentist posted:On the other hand, doesn't this describe Tattooine pretty well, aside from the fact that they have spaceships? Star Wars always felt closer to fantasy than sci-fi to me, except with laserguns. Not only that, Star Wars is full of single-biome planets, which is sort of the inverse of this issue. It doesn't bother me too much though since realism isn't a priority of D&D or Star Wars. Having goofy alien people doesn't undermine Luke's story. Oddly I think this is probably more realistic because it's an unintended vision of space libertarianism. You have the guys with laser guns and space ships and then you have the people wearing rags rummaging through space trash for space bitcoins.
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Dec 31, 2016 21:51
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Avenging Dentist posted:On the other hand, doesn't this describe Tattooine pretty well, aside from the fact that they have spaceships? Star Wars always felt closer to fantasy than sci-fi to me, except with laserguns. Not only that, Star Wars is full of single-biome planets, which is sort of the inverse of this issue. It doesn't bother me too much though since realism isn't a priority of D&D or Star Wars. Having goofy alien people doesn't undermine Luke's story. Yeah, and Tattooine is considered a backwater shithole on the edge of the galactic rim that nobody with any choice would ever want to live on. That's why Luke's there, after all, Ben Kenobi was looking for a place to hide him that the Empire wouldn't look.
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Dec 31, 2016 21:52
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Liquid Communism posted:Yeah, and Tattooine is considered a backwater shithole on the edge of the galactic rim that nobody with any choice would ever want to live on. That's why Luke's there, after all, Ben Kenobi was looking for a place to hide him that the Empire wouldn't look. It's a backwater shithole that is apparently a central hub for smugglers (see: Jabba, Han, all the weirdos in the bar), so it's doing alright for itself I think. Ultimately, it's not much different from the inn where your D&D party meets and gets their first adventure. It's still not especially realistic, but as a fantastical setting, it works just fine I think.
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Dec 31, 2016 22:01
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Avenging Dentist posted:It's a backwater shithole that is apparently a central hub for smugglers (see: Jabba, Han, all the weirdos in the bar), so it's doing alright for itself I think. Ultimately, it's not much different from the inn where your D&D party meets and gets their first adventure. It's still not especially realistic, but as a fantastical setting, it works just fine I think. Right, but that's mostly all just Mos Eisley. The rest of the planet's a shithole where most of the people seem to be explicitly farming for humidity to survive. Until Lucas went back and hosed around with it in the prequels, of course, because like GW he can't resist the urge to gently caress with his own past works and make them worse.
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Dec 31, 2016 22:06
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Avenging Dentist posted:It's a backwater shithole that is apparently a central hub for smugglers (see: Jabba, Han, all the weirdos in the bar), so it's doing alright for itself I think. Ultimately, it's not much different from the inn where your D&D party meets and gets their first adventure. It's still not especially realistic, but as a fantastical setting, it works just fine I think. I think it would have been fine if they didn't then turn around and make Jabba something more than a local crime lord. Han was small time before he became a Rebel General so him having an issue with Jabba works but when you have games like X-wing and books/stuff in the EU making the Hutts a big deal it kind of becomes like if the Russian Mafia HQ was in Siberia for some unknown reason. Either that or make Tatooine rich in some mineral or something but then the Dune rip-off aspect becomes blatant.
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Dec 31, 2016 22:09
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I'd say it's not really important what Tattooine as a whole is like. For the original trilogy, you really just need three things: 1) a lowly place for Luke to live in and dream of escaping, 2) the "inn" where he starts his adventure for real, and 3) a "high-level" place where he can return to and conquer to show how he's risen above his lowly beginnings. Since you don't need the planet to be fully-fleshed out (or even particularly realistic) for that to work, they didn't bother to do any more for Tattooine than they did (at least, not in the original trilogy). That's one of the things that makes the original trilogy work so well (but also limits the amount of time you can spend in the universe): stuff that's not important to the story is barely touched upon and is more about giving the right emotional feel to it, rather than being super realistic. Once you start looking at it too closely, it starts to unravel a bit because you end up grappling with issues like fnordcircle mentions.
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Dec 31, 2016 22:22
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I dunno, I think Han having trouble with the local crime lord was important for defining Han's character which makes his arc more fun so I'd add that to the list of stuff that they needed from Tatooine. The problem is that they made what should have been a lowlevel thug in Jabba an important part of some really powerful faction capable of holding a rebellion general prisoner as a bit of furniture. 5 of the fricking movies had parts on Tattooine. Really it should have been 2. Back to the original stuff about exploring the galaxy I think a lot of the problem with that lies with the EU authors who seem intent on recapturing the feel of original movies by stupid poo poo like 'it kills stars not planets!' and force immune bugs/armor and jedi detectors. The Star Wars world would really shine if we got more low tech drama type stories from the galaxy. I expect Disney's one-offs will eventually give us more than the EU ever gave us when it comes to giving life to the rest of the galaxy since Han Solo and Kenobi movies will probably be about more than just The Empire and Re*
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Dec 31, 2016 22:35
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One of the things that worries me about the side stories is that they all seem like they're trying to tie directly into the main story, which I think makes everything feel even smaller because you never get anything really new. I worry that this will end up sacrificing effort on just having great characters in stories that stand on their own. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that the Rebellion had more resources than just what they had on Yavin IV and Hoth; why not make a movie (or a series of movies) about a totally different front in the war against the Empire?
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Dec 31, 2016 23:08
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Avenging Dentist posted:One of the things that worries me about the side stories is that they all seem like they're trying to tie directly into the main story, which I think makes everything feel even smaller because you never get anything really new. I worry that this will end up sacrificing effort on just having great characters in stories that stand on their own. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that the Rebellion had more resources than just what they had on Yavin IV and Hoth; why not make a movie (or a series of movies) about a totally different front in the war against the Empire? Yeah - it's hard to know for sure given that Disney's 2 movies were EP8 and what was essentially EP3.5 so there's obvious tie-ins to the rebellion/Empire stuff. But if they give us a Han Solo running around causing problems and how he meets Chewie type movie, that would be rad. Something with lower stakes than the fate of the galaxy.
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Dec 31, 2016 23:21
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God, shut the gently caress up about Star Wars already, you loving nerds.
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Dec 31, 2016 23:42
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Avenging Dentist posted:One of the things that worries me about the side stories is that they all seem like they're trying to tie directly into the main story, which I think makes everything feel even smaller because you never get anything really new. I worry that this will end up sacrificing effort on just having great characters in stories that stand on their own. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that the Rebellion had more resources than just what they had on Yavin IV and Hoth; why not make a movie (or a series of movies) about a totally different front in the war against the Empire? It's a tv show called Rebels and it kicks rear end. Plus it has Chopper who is the best Star Wars droid ever. And yeah Star Wars is kind of Space DnD which is another thing my blog poo poo will get into. Wizards are Jedi and both overrun the setting too much. Technology doesn't really advance for 1000s of years more or less. But Star Wars presumably has better plumbing and more guns. Plus way less Elves. Star Wars is a setting full of possibilities. The problem is nobody wants to use them. Kind of like how people insist you can do more RPG stuff in Fantasy yet 90% of all campaigns seem to be about Murderhobos getting jobs from a dude in COLORED ANIMAL INN to go to some relatively isolated location and kill all the poo poo in it where you find artifacts laying about that help you go to other locations to kill poo poo that can't be hurt unless you have said artifacts. These new locations have Artifact +2. Some of these locations are ruins others bases full of monsters. Some locations go up, others down.
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Dec 31, 2016 23:46
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Captain Rufus posted:It's a tv show called Rebels and it kicks rear end. I tried watching that on the plane and I didn't like it. Sorry!  I mean, it's probably the right idea but I didn't like the implementation. e: In other news I finally got to the start of the Dominion plot in DS9 so hopefully that'll be good. The first one was kind of hokey but there's definitely some promise there, and if nothing else I will keep watching for Quark, Odo, and Garak. Avenging Dentist fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Jan 1, 2017 |
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Dec 31, 2016 23:51
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Slimnoid posted:God, shut the gently caress up about Star Wars already, you loving nerds. Nerfherder sighted. Avenging Dentist posted:I tried watching that on the plane and I didn't like it. Sorry! I've watched half an episode of Rebels, it seems ok. Very RotJ in tone so aimed at the tween crowd. Liked it more than what little I watched of Clone Wars but that's not saying much. quote:e: In other news I finally got to the start of the Dominion plot in DS9 so hopefully that'll be good. The first one was kind of hokey but there's definitely some promise there, and if nothing else I will keep watching for Quark, Odo, and Garak. I'm doing a Star Trek chronological viewing and it's been rough. I decided to watch TNG as my 'put something on while gaming/painting/deckbuilding' type show and it's well, I mean, I'd never really watched it before so maybe it was better when it first came out. But whew, it's been rough. Finally got into DS9 as part of the chronological order and it's still silly but I like the characters, the static setting and some other stuff about it. fnordcircle fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Jan 1, 2017 |
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Jan 1, 2017 01:00
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TNG gets off to a really rough start; it's basically TOS except with less charm until it finds its footing. DS9 has way better characters though, and I like that it shows some of the negatives of the Federation. I could do without the Bajorans though.
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Jan 1, 2017 01:24
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Avenging Dentist posted:TNG gets off to a really rough start; it's basically TOS except with less charm until it finds its footing. DS9 has way better characters though, and I like that it shows some of the negatives of the Federation. I could do without the Bajorans though. Any time Bajoran religion is on screen it's terrible Trek schlock, but they do some really interesting stuff with the occupation and the morality of rebellion/terrorism, how a new regime finds itself, etc. I do think the Cardassians are the more interesting half of that relationship, though. Complex bad guys rule.
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Jan 1, 2017 01:45
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I could go an entire lifetime without hearing the word pagh ever again. The occupation stuff is usually ok but that's in no small part because it involves the Cardassians, who are pretty interesting (if portrayed a bit unsubtly). Also Garak is a Cardassian and he's just delightful.
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Jan 1, 2017 01:52
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One of my favorite scenes is the one where Dukat is explaining why you occupy a defeated foe, and his disappointment in the Bajorans, and Weyoun finally understands that Dukat is and always has been totally nuts
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Jan 1, 2017 02:04
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Avenging Dentist posted:TNG gets off to a really rough start; it's basically TOS except with less charm until it finds its footing. DS9 has way better characters though, and I like that it shows some of the negatives of the Federation. I could do without the Bajorans though. Basically TNG takes off after Roddenberry died e: Or after he left the show, I guess. Apparently he was a big problem for the writers because he demanded that there be no conflict between characters ever
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Jan 1, 2017 02:22
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Whenever Picard starts doing his soliloquies is when TNG gets good.
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Jan 1, 2017 02:24
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This is probably my favorite scene in DS9, but I haven't gotten to it chronologically yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VhSm6G7cVk
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Jan 1, 2017 02:24
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Doing this TNG watch, which has taken like 4 years now, I've found that I'm only moderately excited if it's going to be a Picard or Data episode. Worf was cool until he wasn't *cough*Alexander*cough* and half of the time Riker episodes usually involve Troi which...yeah. As much as I love Burton good god he's just an awful actor. The Crushers are terrible. I didn't mind the season 2 cranky Doctor she was at least interesting even if I didn't like her, I liked that she treated Data like an actual robit. I dunno, I'm hoping for something good from CBS Trek, but I'm probably setting myself up for disappointment.
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Jan 1, 2017 02:36
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fnordcircle posted:I dunno, I'm hoping for something good from CBS Trek, but I'm probably setting myself up for disappointment. When I found out it was pre-TOS I basically gave up. It could still be good but I'm not gonna hold my breath.
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Jan 1, 2017 02:44
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The problem with Pulaski is she acts outright hateful towards Data at times- they were aiming for a McCoy/Spock thing but Spock gave as good as he got, Data was more childlike so Pulaski just comes off as needlessly mean.
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Jan 1, 2017 02:46
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Avenging Dentist posted:When I found out it was pre-TOS I basically gave up. It could still be good but I'm not gonna hold my breath. Maybe Big Bang Theory will have a cameo. "How I teleported your mother." Maxwell Lord posted:The problem with Pulaski is she acts outright hateful towards Data at times- they were aiming for a McCoy/Spock thing but Spock gave as good as he got, Data was more childlike so Pulaski just comes off as needlessly mean. Yeah but I mean, at least it was something compared to the rest of the crew always holding hands and sending each other love emjois.
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Jan 1, 2017 04:31
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Here's my (awful) pitch for a Star Trek series/plotline: the Terran Empire from the mirror universe (who by DS9 time is relatively peaceful and subjugated by the Klingons/Cardassians/whatevers) makes a plea to join the Federation and receive their protection so now you have a weird cross-universe conflict. Make Star Trek weird again. Avenging Dentist fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Jan 1, 2017 |
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Jan 1, 2017 04:53
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ijyt posted:Mostly the whole "lets shout STORMTROOPERS! AT-AT! references are dumb! This was meant to be a standalone movie!" every few minutes because a Star Wars movie has them. Also not sure how the plot failed to deliver on them stealing the plans? This seems like a really selective criticism of RLM since that's how they approach every media franchise they dislike. Star Wars is just the most extreme version. As far as failing to deliver on the spy plot, it's because there wasn't one. They put on some uniforms and then waited for a distraction before climbing a tall thing and fighting to the death in a corridor. We knew from the opening scene that the movie would end with the Rebellion getting the plans, but they didn't make the actual acquisition of said plans particularly interesting. Since we didn't care about the characters there basically wasn't any tension at all. They either needed to make the characters more interesting so we gave a poo poo when they started dropping or they needed to make the plan to get the plans intriguing. They failed on both accounts.
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Jan 1, 2017 05:09
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Avenging Dentist posted:Here's my (awful) pitch for a Star Trek series/plotline: the Terran Empire from the mirror universe (who by DS9 time is relatively peaceful and subjugated by the Klingons/Cardassians/whatevers) makes a plea to join the Federation and receive their protection so now you have a weird cross-universe conflict. I want an episode to be a weird legal drama about something that is made horrifyingly complex by the existence of identical alternate universe doubles.
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Jan 1, 2017 05:10
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wdarkk posted:I want an episode to be a weird legal drama about something that is made horrifyingly complex by the existence of identical alternate universe doubles. Yes. Yes! This is what I want to see in a Star Trek.
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Jan 1, 2017 05:15
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Garak for President - 2020.
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Jan 1, 2017 06:13
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He has my vote.
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Jan 1, 2017 09:00
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Irate Tree posted:Garak for President - 2020. Shame we got Dukat this time around instead. Okay no, Dukat would have been better.
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Jan 1, 2017 10:52
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Drone posted:Shame we got Dukat this time around instead. Dukat was the one that lost, the Tal Shiar plant won
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Jan 1, 2017 10:58
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Slimnoid posted:God, shut the gently caress up about Star Wars already, you loving nerds.
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Jan 1, 2017 13:52
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Liquid Communism posted:Yeah, and Tattooine is considered a backwater shithole on the edge of the galactic rim that nobody with any choice would ever want to live on. That's why Luke's there, after all, Ben Kenobi was looking for a place to hide him that the Empire wouldn't look. Let's place this kid that is gonna be hunted by his father and the emperor with his relatives on his goddamn home planet and not change his name or anything, because nobody will ever think to look for him there. Meanwhile, I will do nothing at all to conceal my identity, not even change out of the same Jedi clothes I've been wearing for the last 40 years, so that even random dirt farmers know who I am. I am so smrt.
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Jan 1, 2017 14:15
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moisture farms lol
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Jan 1, 2017 14:18
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JABBA THE SHUTT THE gently caress UP
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Jan 1, 2017 15:24
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Saint Drogo posted:moisture farms lol It's what I call my nuts.
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Jan 1, 2017 16:32
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Mods please move this thread to TVIV tia
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Jan 1, 2017 17:54
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Thirsty Dog posted:Mods please move this thread to TVIV tia
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Jan 1, 2017 18:21
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You should all ready the GBS voyager thread
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