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I was just rereading some of the Iliad (which I hate, by the way, but nevermind that right now) and was surprised to come across a scene in book XXIII where Odysseus and mega-Ajax wrestle... and their strength is evenly matched. It's a draw for so long that the crowd gets bored. Then Odysseus kinda cheats but it turns out that he isn't strong enough to hoist mega-Ajax over his head (not that that's even relevant normally, but Ajax wanted to settle the tie that way). Achilles officially decides it's a tie in the end. So that seems to establish canonically that Odysseus is tied for one of the top spots -possibly the top spot- as strongest Greek, and is stronger than Ajax for his size because Ajax is huge and he's not. In the Odyssey of course he never gets compared to any of these other great heroes directly, but he's stated again and again to have superhuman strength. He shows that a few times along the way of course, then there's the famous bow scene where Penelope says she'll marry whoever can string Odysseus's bow which no other man on earth is strong enough to do. And sure enough the most fearsome of the suitors can't even come close. Odysseus's son Telemachus has to try really hard but he's eventually able to. Then Odysseus just does it like it's nothing.
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Jan 20, 2017 00:22
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Reminds me of the archer hero in Myth: TFL. His flavor text was "... but it was ki'Angsi alone that stood up to the challenge and strung the giant's bow; the great yew shaft that no two other men could bend."
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Jan 20, 2017 00:27
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Wasn't there some special trick to the bow stringing (suitors hate it)? I seem to remember something along those lines.
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Jan 20, 2017 00:31
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You do need a lot of muscle strength to draw a bow properly. So naturally most games makes it entirely dependent on dexterity/agility. 
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Jan 20, 2017 00:42
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Poil posted:You do need a lot of muscle strength to draw a bow properly. So naturally most games makes it entirely dependent on dexterity/agility. I think it's because most modern archery is about hitting a tiny, stationary target, rather than about hitting a very large but moving target with enough force to punch through armor and redecorate the innards. One is all about good eyes, steady hands, and good physics intuition (with strength being nice for determining maximum distance and influencing how high up you need to aim, but little else). The other requires great strength above all, with everything else secondary because accurately hitting a person with small remaining force is worthless. And so is missing because your arrow was slow and therefore missed when the fellow moved an unexpected way during the intervening time. Also in part because modern compound bows have enough mechanical advantage that even a fairly weak person can fire an arrow with considerable force anyway. We think we understand archery because we still have sport archery, so we don't do as much actual research as we might about topics that seem more alien. But modern sport archery is not at all the same thing.
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Jan 20, 2017 01:12
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Lunethex posted:Reminds me of the archer hero in Myth: TFL. His flavor text was "... but it was ki'Angsi alone that stood up to the challenge and strung the giant's bow; the great yew shaft that no two other men could bend." Ironically, despite being a talented archer, Heracles in this game has no ranged attacks. Meaning he is helpless against the Stymphalian Birds, one of the monsters he slew as a Labor.
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Jan 20, 2017 01:47
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Melth posted:I was just rereading some of the Iliad (which I hate, by the way, but nevermind that right now) Whoa Whoa Whoa. Hold it right there. I can understand rating the Odyssey above the Iliad or the like, but hating it?!
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Jan 20, 2017 02:46
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Astroclassicist posted:Whoa Whoa Whoa. Hold it right there. I can understand rating the Odyssey above the Iliad or the like, but hating it?! As it turns out, I rate the Iliad slightly below staring idly into space for three hours while waiting to find out if I'll actually get to do jury duty this time. This was a surprise to me. I brought it along because I thought I rated it slightly above staring into space and that therefore this would be a good chance to make myself read it again.
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Jan 20, 2017 03:05
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Honestly Lazer Bear is the main reason I spent so much time playing this game as teen.
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Jan 20, 2017 03:23
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Esoteric Banana posted:Honestly Lazer Bear is the main reason I spent so much time playing this game as teen. For me, it was laser crocodile.
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Jan 20, 2017 03:51
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Odysseus is smart enough to realize most of the Trojan War is really, really stupid and his actions are based around "Can I go home now?"
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Jan 20, 2017 04:39
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Esoteric Banana posted:Honestly Lazer Bear is the main reason I spent so much time playing this game as teen. I liked the Flying Purple Hippo
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Jan 20, 2017 05:18
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So to ask the old question again since I once again have a totally different process and the specs for the final version of the video are different as well, do the quality of the sound and video compare well to the previous ones in this series?
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Jan 20, 2017 06:27
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Melth posted:So to ask the old question again since I once again have a totally different process and the specs for the final version of the video are different as well, do the quality of the sound and video compare well to the previous ones in this series? I am utterly incapable of distinguishing between video and audio qualities unless one is incredibly, egregiously bad. Seemed fine to me.
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Jan 20, 2017 06:38
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Melth posted:I was just rereading some of the Iliad (which I hate, by the way, but nevermind that right now) and was surprised to come across a scene in book XXIII where Odysseus and mega-Ajax wrestle... and their strength is evenly matched. It's a draw for so long that the crowd gets bored. Then Odysseus kinda cheats but it turns out that he isn't strong enough to hoist mega-Ajax over his head (not that that's even relevant normally, but Ajax wanted to settle the tie that way). Achilles officially decides it's a tie in the end.
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Jan 20, 2017 09:46
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Goddamn, how could I miss this thread? I love this game. Sharing the love of Hades super-archer strat.
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Jan 20, 2017 21:57
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Simply Simon posted:I only read a popular prose retelling of the Iliad so hopefully this is not something that got lost in translation, but my favourite moment of comparing hero stats like Homer's mashing loving action figures together going "Odysseus could totally beat Achilles if he had enough time to plan!" is when Menelaos first meets Odysseus and it's stated that Menelaos is bigger than Odysseus when they're standing up, but Odysseus is bigger when they're both sitting. That's so pointless, I love it! From the Teichoscopia (i.e. viewing from the walls) in Book 3 Homer posted:Then he saw Odysseus and asked: ‘Who is he, dear child? Tell me of that man shorter than Agamemnon, but broader in the chest and shoulders. He heaps his armour on the ground and ranges the ranks like the leader of the flock, the fleecy ram that roams among white ewes.’ The Greek word is γεραρώτερος, "more majestic", the comparative of the adjective γεραρός from γέρας, the gifts/honour due to nobility - it is the taking by Agamemnon of Achilles' geras, Briseis, which kicks off the Iliad, since such gifts were the source of honour. Essentially, Priam believes that Odysseus is the more worthy of gifts and honour of the two.
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Jan 21, 2017 01:11
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Simply Simon posted:Homer's mashing loving action figures together going "Odysseus could totally beat Achilles if he had enough time to plan!" This is the best description of the Iliad I've ever read. Oddly enough though, I think I actually would have liked more action figure mashing in Argonautica. That story begged for it since it was a giant crossover of Greek mythology's greatest hits. And also Greek mythology's random guys with lame powers who nobody likes. But instead everyone including Jason immediately agrees that Heracles is the best at everything and should lead them all. And then the Hellenic Superfriends mostly just sit around not using their powers while Medea joins the party and does everything. Melth fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Jan 21, 2017 |
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Jan 21, 2017 01:51
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One thing that's neat about this game is that if one of your heroes drops you can kill them forever by putting a building over their corpse. E: Scenario maps did a lot for showing some of the stranger quirks with regard to how certain things worked in the game. TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Jan 21, 2017 |
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Jan 21, 2017 07:20
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Just caught up. Enjoying the LP so far. I tl;dr all the effort posts in this thread so I hope you find some time in the videos to talk about the weirder quirks of this game.TheKingofSprings posted:One thing that's neat about this game is that if one of your heroes drops you can kill them forever by putting a building over their corpse. Could an enemy do that as well?
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Jan 21, 2017 11:16
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TheKingofSprings posted:One thing that's neat about this game is that if one of your heroes drops you can kill them forever by putting a building over their corpse. Carbon dioxide posted:Just caught up. Enjoying the LP so far. I tl;dr all the effort posts in this thread so I hope you find some time in the videos to talk about the weirder quirks of this game. Yes, I just tested it. Sadly, it doesn't matter though. First, the campaign AI rarely builds new stuff except in a few scripted spots and for that matter rarely even rebuilds stuff in their base. So they're not going to delete one of your fallen heroes. And you can't really do it to them either although I can think of 6 total missions in all of the campaigns where you get to kill special heroes. In two of the missions I can think of, killing the hero immediately wins the mission. Then there's one weird mission of the original campaign where you kill some special heroes as basically a playable cinematic, but you have no villagers and thus no way to build. Then there's this one sloppily made mission of the Chinese campaign where you're not supposed to but you CAN seek out and kill an enemy special hero. But again you have no villagers. There IS one mission in the original campaign where you can optionally and trivially kill a special hero right next to the actual target you need to kill to win, and I guess you COULD smuggle a villager up into the heart of that enemy base to build over him in theory, but the mission is basically done anyway. The only case where 1) you can kill a special hero without the mission being over and 2) you have villagers is the sloppy final level of the Chinese campaign. There a weak enemy hero will go on a suicide attack against your base in the first few minutes. Which makes it easy to build over him I guess, but since the enemy makes no attempt to rescue him he's not coming back anyway. Oh! Come to think of it, if you play the very first mission very badly on Titan difficulty, Arkantos's son Kastor can get killed up on that cliff he starts on. He's an ally rather than an enemy but not actually under your control. I guess if you had stashed a villager up in Atlantis for this purpose and if you held back from using your giant army of reinforcements to win, you could delete Kastor. That'll teach him to want to go to Troy with his dad. Melth fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Jan 21, 2017 |
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Jan 21, 2017 22:17
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Melth posted:Oh! Come to think of it, if you play the very first mission very badly on Titan difficulty, Arkantos's son Kastor can get killed up on that cliff he starts on. He's an ally rather than an enemy but not actually under your control. I guess if you had stashed a villager up in Atlantis for this purpose and if you held back from using your giant army of reinforcements to win, you could delete Kastor. That'll teach him to want to go to Troy with his dad. You don't even need to play badly. He got killed for me by errant lightning strikes.
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Jan 21, 2017 23:27
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What they don't tell you about the Odyssey is that it wasn't Circe who fell in love with Odysseus and compelled him to stay with her. No, in the original story, Polyphemus himself was besotted with the great general, and for a time his affections were returned. But one night Odysseus dreamt of his Penelope and, upon waking, slunk shame-facedly to his ship, where his men waited for him. Polyphemus was heartbroken, but felt he could not tell the other giants, who, sensing his heartbreak, found for him a bride. And on the day of their wedding, they asked him, Polyphemus, is there anyone you hold dearer to you than your sweet wife? And he whispered, "Nobody."
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Jan 22, 2017 10:20
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Astroclassicist posted:From the Teichoscopia (i.e. viewing from the walls) in Book 3  .
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Jan 23, 2017 12:46
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VIDEO UP! SHIFT KEY DOWN! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJmn_HVHlVo Melth fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Jan 24, 2017 |
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Jan 24, 2017 04:40
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SHIFT KEY IS THE ONLY WAY FOR CAPITALS. I've noticed that one hydra staying at 77 HP and pretty much being on Hades' door. Units do not heal over time?
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Jan 24, 2017 13:33
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Melth posted:VIDEO UP! SHIFT KEY DOWN! It's generally a good idea not to edit in important things into your posts (unless it's the OP) since nobody gets an update when you edit stuff, just when stuff gets posted. Just make a new post if something like this happens again, thread ain't gonna run out of space. 
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Jan 24, 2017 14:06
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Dinictus posted:SHIFT KEY IS THE ONLY WAY FOR CAPITALS. Nope, only heroes do.
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Jan 24, 2017 14:27
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Dinictus posted:SHIFT KEY IS THE ONLY WAY FOR CAPITALS. Healing is at a premium in Age of Mythology - only Egypt has easily accessible healing for their units (by using Priests and Pharaoh), and even then it's single-target and pretty slow. The Norse can summon a healing spring with one of their gods to provide AoE healing (sort of like the Plenty Vault seen in this mission, it is an invincible but capturable building), and the Greeks get the Restoration god power that they can cast for a one-time, huge healing boost that can be used to absolutely steamroll a decisive battle. I'm not familiar enough with the Atlanteans (and haven't even looked at the Chinese) to know what their situation for healing is. edit: worshiping Apollo apparently lets you turn your temples into a source of AoE healing via upgrade, as well. edit again: oh and the norse "valkyrie" myth unit has a heal The point is, healing is only available on certain god paths to the Greeks and Norse; only the Egyptians have a guaranteed heal on the regular, from the beginning of the game. HannibalBarca fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Jan 24, 2017 |
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Jan 24, 2017 14:55
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Atlantis has a couple options for healing, both available if you worship Oceanus (so Kronus is out of luck). Servants are naval myth unit healers that are decently tough but have a weak attack and heal naval units faster than they do land units. Caladriae are flying healers with no attack.
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Jan 24, 2017 15:13
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Artemis is worshiped in a single mission: Arkantos' vision quest.
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Jan 24, 2017 15:19
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my dad posted:It's generally a good idea not to edit in important things into your posts (unless it's the OP) since nobody gets an update when you edit stuff, just when stuff gets posted. Thanks for the tip; I wasn't sure how passionate people were about not double posting and decided not to risk it. Dinictus posted:
Right! That's why I kept mentioning my heroes regenerate and therefore tanking with them. You would think a hydra of all things would too, but they don't. Which is a reason I kept saying they're only good if you can start them off fighting small groups who won't hurt them too bad. That way you can get extra heads WITHOUT being one shot from death. It's also why I saved my Restoration power forever ultimately, I was always waiting for a good chance to use it on several hydras since they're one of the best imaginable targets. Healing is quite rare in this game and it's very possible to have none available at all. Especially as the Greeks. I think I'll save a complete listing of all types of healing (and information about their speed) for later missions, but HannibalBarca got almost all of them. The Chinese basically have Priests (called Monks) who cost the exact same as a Priest, are bought from the same building, and heal at the same rate. That really takes away the specialness of Egypt having the only guaranteed access to healing. Worthlessly, they also have a myth unit that heals nearby allies slightly when it dies. Oh and Tale of the Dragon added 1 new unit for all civilizations, most patching a giant hole in their capabilities. The Greeks got the Physician, giving them a dedicated healer. I really don't like that honestly.
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Jan 24, 2017 15:56
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Besides Hephaestos' thingamajig there, is there any other way to get access to wood or gold after they've run out?
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Jan 24, 2017 19:31
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The free hand of the market! You can trade resources in the market, prices are dependent on how much has been sold recently, so if you sell a ton of food you'll get less gold back. Though the price crashes and bottoms out less severely than say, Sins of a Solar Empire. Ostensibly in a total hell of a match that would be the final resort, an entire food economy supporting the other three resources, but in reality even the largest FFAs possible would struggle to reach that point.
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Jan 24, 2017 19:47
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Markets can also generate gold via caravans, which cost food to create.
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Jan 24, 2017 20:05
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Yeah late game a good chunk of what was once your villager pop will be converted into caravans. And then of course someone will be a nuisance and not surrender when they're beaten so you have to go corner hunting for their markets, if they're not the last opponent for omniscience. No I'm not bitter.
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Jan 24, 2017 20:10
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Lynneth posted:Besides Hephaestos' thingamajig there, is there any other way to get access to wood or gold after they've run out? Several! All resources are basically unlimited in this game. The game is more about maximizing your income than hoarding limited wealth. Besides that farming and fishing are infinite, so is caravan gold. And, in fact, caravans can generate gold at a very fast rate if your route is long enough and you have the Coinage upgrade. On this mission where my market was much too close to the town center, they'd still have been as good as villagers with all upgades. If I'd built a new market at the edge of the map along the same line I'd have made about 50 gold per trip more at the cost of only a few more seconds. Chinese Pixiu myth units generate gold while fighting (but they cost gold, and my tests indicate they usually only recoup about 1/2 their price before they die, so...) The Ship of Fingernails relic for food and Ring of the Nibelungs for gold also grant infinite trickles of those resources. For all trees to run out would be almost inconceivable on most maps, but I suppose it could on some of the desert ones that just have few to begin with. There isn't another way to just harvest infinite amounts of wood like with farming or caravans, but besides Hephaestus's Plenty Vault there are Chinese Gardens. Those basically work like mini-Plenty Vaults but only on one resource at a time. The Gaia's Forest god power can of course create more trees, but you'll run out of that eventually too. And then of course you can endlessly (but expensively) use your Market to transmute one resource into another, like Orv said.
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Jan 24, 2017 20:11
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Don't units garrisoned in building regenerate very slowly, or am I thinking of another Age game?
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Jan 24, 2017 22:12
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That's AoE2.
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Jan 24, 2017 22:33
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That was age of empires 2.
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Jan 24, 2017 22:46
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