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Black Baby Goku posted:So it silences women by bringing up a topic in the feminism thread that doesn't involve women? Are men and women not allowed to discuss issues that may not be from the place of their sex or lived experiences? Just seems silly to me but whatever. Thanks for answering. It's so women can talk about things that some men are less interested in without being talked over or derailed, which has already happened, thus proving that a men-focused feminism thread would serve some sort of purpose.
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Dec 28, 2016 02:03
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| # ¿ May 22, 2024 13:42 |
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But really, what about the men? My friend really liked The Mask You Live In as a feminist documentary about how men and boys are negatively impacted by societal expectations and toxic masculinity, but it seemed very much like a basic introduction to me. Not in a bad way or anything, but I felt like I didn't learn as much from it as I'd been hoping to. (I watched it on Netflix a while ago, and its website is here: http://therepresentationproject.org/film/the-mask-you-live-in/ . I'd definitely recommend it to anyone who hasn't watched it before and wants a basic description of what toxic masculinity even is.) Does anyone have recommendations for books or articles on the subject that are a little bit more advanced? Or if anyone wants to talk about their opinion of the documentary, that would be cool too. Thanks! Colin Mockery fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Dec 28, 2016 |
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Dec 28, 2016 02:25
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Guy Goodbody posted:What's wrong with making you preferences in partners clear? If somebody has zero romantic/sexual interest in overweight people, why is it a problem for them to say so when they're looking for a romantic/sexual partner? There's a difference between "No thanks, i'm not interested" and "All fat people are unattractive". Additionally, when you broaden that into talking about race ("All black people are unattractive"), you start edging into really uncomfortable territory because people of the same ethnicity can look very, very different. If you're unwilling to date a black person, would you break up with someone after two days because you thought she was white but it turns out she has a black grandparent and considers herself mixed-race? And if you wouldn't, how do you think it'd go down if you told her "I don't normally date black people but you don't look or act black so I'm making an exception"? Further, when you say "overweight", you may mean something that other people don't, which just needlessly thins your dating pool by pre-emptively rejecting people who may consider themselves overweight but that you wouldn't (I'm assuming you mean "someone who is so overweight that it impacts their ability to do fun activities" or "someone who is obese", and not "someone who is around average but insecure about their weight" or "an athlete who has a lot of muscle", but even people with an extra 20 pounds can carry it in very different ways and look very different). To say "I'm not interested in overweight people" is to tell people "if you think you are overweight, I'm not interested, no exceptions". I'm not attracted to bald men, in general, but I would hesitate to say that all bald men are inherently unattractive (or even that they're unattractive at all, regardless of my personal preference) or that I would never date them. I would most definitely not go around telling bald strangers I'd never met "I'd never date you because you're too unattractive" because that's a good way to come across as a judgemental rear end in a top hat.
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Dec 28, 2016 22:41
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Yeah, it was not a good post. Taking garbage MRA and  language and turning it against boys isn't the right way to go.
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Dec 28, 2016 23:30
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Guy Goodbody posted:What is the cultural phenomenon that leads to white men being insufficiently attracted to Asian men? Are Asian men viewed as less masculine? Actually, yes. Here's some links: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS2jGfW5aOE https://mindthegapless.wordpress.com/2014/03/12/on-feminine-desexualized-asian-men-beyond-emasculation-toward-reappropriation/ (this one especially has some interesting looking citations, but I don't have JSTOR) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ama-yawson/asian-american-men-hunks-_b_5956614.html https://medium.com/a-m-awaken-your-inner-asian/tagged/asian-masculinity
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Dec 29, 2016 00:04
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Aging Millenial posted:How do we fix the fact that women appear to be more sexually responsive to men who are strong, capable, and have high social status? Men who often command other men. It's as if women, by their very existence, fuel toxic masculinity, because men who succeed at that version of masculinity tend to be more sexually successful, which creates a huge incentive for the continuance of toxic masculinity. I am happy to be open about my lack of caring about sports, or my eagerness about reading poetry by the lakeside, but the result of that would often be that most women would consider me a fruit. I think the reason women don't like you is because it only took one paragraph for you to come across as a massive tool, not because you prefer poetry to sports. It's true that attractive, friendly, charismatic, successful people tend to do better in all parts of their life (making friends, getting job offers/promotions, being invited to parties) though to some extent, that's a tautology. How do we fix the problem that people are more attracted to attractive people? But it's flawed to put all the blame on women for that and to some extent, it really does boil down to "well, if it's their preference and they don't want to change it, there's not much you can do for them". I would not consider having confidence, charisma, or strength (emotional or physical?) to always be emblematic of toxic masculinity. Which isn't to say there aren't women who are sexist or women who promote toxic masculinity. But that's not inherent to being a woman, just as a father beating his son for crying isn't inherent to being a man.
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Dec 29, 2016 09:07
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| # ¿ May 22, 2024 13:42 |
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Aging Millenial posted:I merely raised the fact that men who out-compete other men on masculine terms -- in resource acquisition, in male status games, even in physical capability, etc, tend to get more rewarded by women on sexual terms, because these men's very success on masculine-competition terms appears to trigger female attraction. So on the one hand you have feminists crowing about "toxic masculinity" and on the other you have the reality that men who succeed at the culture of toxic masculinity get to be rewarded sexually. Men should apparently play down their eagerness to be the boss and top dog, but then the boss and top dog tends to more likely get laid, and with more desirable partners as well. Surely this reward system is going to encourage more toxic masculinity. How do you fix this? You're operating on some very confused ideas and frankly, should talk to a therapist about it. Yes, if the only people you seek approval from are "women who are sexist", then "following society's expectations for sufficiently masculine behavior" would be a viable strategy, in the same way that if you seek approval from white supremacists, then "being a racist" would help you in that goal. Have you considered... not looking for scraps of attention from assholes? Even if you get it, it won't make you happy.
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Dec 29, 2016 10:10
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