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falcon2424 posted:This is why we shouldn't mix up movements and ideologies. I agree with this. I think there's a lot to be gained from building a male-centric movement that tackles men's issues through a feminist lens. Right now, a ton of men take their problems into anti-feminist spaces that fill their heads up with a lot of garbage, and we end up with the horrors of the "men's right's movement". The negative issues generated by forcing people to fit into the male gender role creates a lot of suppressed insecurity and anger, and it seems like these anti-feminist spaces are some of the very few places where men (especially young men) feel it's safe to open up about their frustrations and say whatever they want, no matter how embarrassing or problematic. And in exchange for a safe space where it's okay to vent freely, they're fed reactionary nonsense that encourages them to view feminism as the root of all male weakness and insecurity, and patriarchy as the antidote to their personal suffering. I think if we could create feminist versions of these male spaces out there that allowed this kind of venting and offered men a counter-narrative that correctly puts their problems into the context of harmful gender roles and toxic masculinity, we could take the wind out of anti-feminist movements. I don't know if this is supposed to be a legit thread or if it's a half-assed attempt to save the feminism thread from a dumb slap fight/derail, but either way, sincere discussion about this thread's topic absolutely needs to happen, imo. I hope this thread doesn't end up a total dumpster fire and/or forgotten in a day.
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Dec 28, 2016 03:37
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:Alright so let's start by identifying problems men face. I think one pretty good starting point is the way that traditional notions of masculinity exacerbate mental health issues by causing men to not ask for help, or to ignore their personal issues, or to scorn the idea of "mental illness" altogether. I personally knew one friend that felt this way and took his own life a few years ago. Nobody had any idea there was anything wrong.
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Dec 28, 2016 04:12
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punched my v-card at camp posted:I've always found a certain degree of irony in the development of the "man-o-sphere" and the general rise of aggrieved nerd misogyny. In a lot of ways, it's the male victims of the patriarchy blaming feminism for the fact that conventional/patriarchal masculinity excludes and belittles them. I grew up a nerdling who was made fun of for being nonathletic and interested in weird stuff and I did feel a lot of frustration in how I couldn't measure up to what was expected of me as a man and that I wasn't reaping the rewards of being a man in terms of receiving female attention and male respect, which are issues I think underlie a lot of dumb MRA arguments. Unlike a lot of the GamerGate types, I've never forgot who was doing the mocking though- it was the jocks and traditionally masculine guys, not the handful of feminist women in my life. This is a good post, and it communicates the idea that I was trying to get at earlier. It's darkly funny that nerdy communities tend to be some of the worst about perpetuating harmful gender stereotypes for men. Even in the enlightened leftist bastion of D&D, male nerd insecurity is transparently obvious when people constantly attack each other over being "basement-dwelling virginal neckbeards" and such. That kind of culture encourages terrible behavior and leaves men feeling emotionally isolated and insecure. We really do massive damage to ourselves, in large part. Let us English posted:This leads to a lot of PUA bullshit. Because it frames getting laid as a game where the subject (the man) can manipulate the object (the woman). It probably wouldn't sell, but that scene wouldn't be nearly as toxic if the message was about improving oneself for ones own benefit and to be more attractive to potential romantic partners. A lot of the "manosphere" actually does put a large emphasis on personal fitness, becoming more sociable, and gaining self-esteem and confidence. They also teach guys to be emotionally abusive, to hate women on a general level, and to subscribe to abhorrent politics. The former bits are positive behaviors that help success in dating, while the later bits are unnecessary and destructive baggage. The real problem is that they tangle all of these things together in one poisonous ideology, and lots of guys can't figure out what they've been sold.
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Dec 28, 2016 06:46
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