Let's talk about the impacts of patriarchy/misogyny/male privilege on men.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Let's talk about the impacts of patriarchy/misogyny/male privilege on men.

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Thank you for the thread, FAU! I'm glad to have a separate space for men's issues, keep up the good work!

# ¿ Dec 28, 2016 01:49

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 09:25

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Aging Millenial posted:

How do we fix the fact that women appear to be more sexually responsive to men who are strong, capable, and have high social status? Men who often command other men. It's as if women, by their very existence, fuel toxic masculinity, because men who succeed at that version of masculinity tend to be more sexually successful, which creates a huge incentive for the continuance of toxic masculinity. I am happy to be open about my lack of caring about sports, or my eagerness about reading poetry by the lakeside, but the result of that would often be that most women would consider me a fruit.

# ¿ Dec 29, 2016 08:59

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Tarantula posted:

Mayhaps as this is the thread to discuss Patriarchy and its effect on men it would be more productive to discuss toxic masculinity how and why it forms and what can be done to combat it, y'know instead of flaming and shitposting in order to make the prophecy of this thread becoming an MRA cesspool come true?

Yes, the women posting about how the man civilly discussing how women are at fault for the creation of toxic masculinity is the grossest goddamn thing are the ones at fault.

# ¿ Dec 29, 2016 09:20

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Aging Millenial posted:

I merely raised the fact that men who out-compete other men on masculine terms -- in resource acquisition, in male status games, even in physical capability, etc, tend to get more rewarded by women on sexual terms, because these men's very success on masculine-competition terms appears to trigger female attraction. So on the one hand you have feminists crowing about "toxic masculinity" and on the other you have the reality that men who succeed at the culture of toxic masculinity get to be rewarded sexually. Men should apparently play down their eagerness to be the boss and top dog, but then the boss and top dog tends to more likely get laid, and with more desirable partners as well. Surely this reward system is going to encourage more toxic masculinity. How do you fix this?

Perhaps it can't be fixed, which feminists don't want to hear, or perhaps the solution is for more women to give priority to the dweebs and neckbeards when they're selecting their male sexual partners as a way to create a viable reward for avoiding the culture of "toxic masculinity," certainly a ridiculous suggestion that feminists don't want to hear as well. So, I suppose, the solution is just to accept the reality that there are real and substantial payoffs to participating in the culture of what feminists have labeled "toxic masculinity."

Also perhaps when feminists are faced with this obstacle I suppose they'll just redefine what the vagu term "toxic masculinity" is suppose to impugn, which will just be really bad things like rape and sexism. Yea I agree men shouldn't really engage in those things as they are bad thins and we should all be considerate towards each other and respectful of each other's rights.

Please tell me more :biotruths:

you're really forcing me to get wet for neckbeards :allears:

# ¿ Dec 29, 2016 10:00

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

the trump tutelage posted:

Sorry for being uncharitable, then.

I still don't see what a feminist framing brings to the issue except to ask the open-ended, descriptive "why". In a scenario where the man doesn't care whatsoever but the woman does, the only interesting question is "why doesn't he care and why does she?"

Because of the-to steal a phrase-politics of tedium. It is because of our patriarchal society that socialized girls to help mom clean up and learn how to do incredibly tedious things: dishes, mopping, the shower, the mirrors, vacuuming, taking out the trash, cleaning out and snaking the drains and so on, and teaches boys to help dad do things like: Christmas lights. And because of this, men consistently underestimate the housework load, and have "low cleanliness standards" aka used to the cleaning fairy doing it all.

If you don't understand why this is misogynistic, you might want to take a long hard look in the mirror.

# ¿ Dec 29, 2016 19:43

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

the trump tutelage posted:

I don't expect to matter to anyone on this dying forum.

Then why do you even post? Have you considered turning off your monitor?

# ¿ Dec 29, 2016 19:45

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

A Buttery Pastry posted:

You don't have to see it as the same level of unreasonable busywork, for it to still be unreasonable busywork in your eyes.

The human mind is really really good at filtering poo poo out it doesn't care about. You can be super observant about some stuff, while oblivious to others. Part of making people observant about stuff is training, which is what girls being taught to do housework is. I mean, I'm sure people being educated into different professions will start to notice stuff they never did before, and pay more attention to it, because it has become a thing that matters to them. The converse of that is if you were never taught to care about housework, or at least not to a great degree, then your brain might simply not bother truly processing all those signs of a house in need of cleaning.

We aren't necessarily talking about "standard well-kept house" vs. squalor here, just two people sitting in different places on a gradient going from garbage dump to clean room.

Breathing in dander and dust and having allergy attacks because vacuuming is unreasonable: nothing gets past this guy!

# ¿ Dec 29, 2016 20:26

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 09:25

stone cold: Feb 15, 2014

Jarmak posted:

At the point where we're turning gender norms and statistics into caricature s of maliciously toxic people and then generalizing that into "what men are like" that's no longer a cultural criticism, or some sort of sociological statistical analysis. It's just bad faith bigoted bullshit for the purpose of scoring points by punching up. It would be instantly called out as such in any other instance.

That's exactly what has been being proposed and then twisted into being some sort horrible sexist idea by TB.

What are you even talking about?

# ¿ Dec 29, 2016 21:46

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Let's talk about the impacts of patriarchy/misogyny/male privilege on men.