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What regions belong in the Pacific Northwest?
Alaska, US
British Columbia, CA
Washington, US
Oregon, US
Idaho, US
Montana, US
Wyoming, US
California, US (MODS PLEASE BAN ANYONE VOTING FOR THIS OPTION TIA)
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anthonypants
May 6, 2007

by Nyc_Tattoo
Dinosaur Gum
Old thread, closed by the OP on account of too much Debate and/or Discussion

This thread shall be a safe space for PNW-area Debate and Discussion, primarily focusing on political issues or whatever.

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turn it up TURN ME ON
Mar 19, 2012

In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.
Thanks for the new thread, OP.

Now on to the real questions that plague our region. Why does Oregon (and Portland specifically) have so many strip clubs?

Gerund
Sep 12, 2007

He push a man


anthonypants posted:

Old thread, closed by the OP on account of too much Debate and/or Discussion

This thread shall be a safe space for PNW-area Debate and Discussion, primarily focusing on political issues or whatever.

Great time, good times.

turn it up TURN ME ON posted:

Now on to the real questions that plague our region. Why does Oregon (and Portland specifically) have so many strip clubs?

I want to say at first glance this is from a lack of them in WA because we don't want sex workers to not pay extra income tax. Because our law system is paternal as hell, you see.

turn it up TURN ME ON
Mar 19, 2012

In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.
I was gonna say it's because OR knows how to party and WA is like the dad state.

anthonypants
May 6, 2007

by Nyc_Tattoo
Dinosaur Gum

turn it up TURN ME ON posted:

Thanks for the new thread, OP.

Now on to the real questions that plague our region. Why does Oregon (and Portland specifically) have so many strip clubs?
Human trafficking

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHVOROfd7Og

turn it up TURN ME ON
Mar 19, 2012

In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.

Goddamnit

Freakazoid_
Jul 5, 2013


Buglord
glowing-fish is a punk rear end bitch.

when cascadia rises, i hope they bring back nwcn. the dentist's waiting room will feel empty without it.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

coyo7e
Aug 23, 2007

by zen death robot
Oops you beat me to making a replacement.

coyo7e
Aug 23, 2007

by zen death robot
Anyways, the answer to your poll: http://www.washington.edu/uwired/outreach/cspn/Website/Classroom%20Materials/Pacific%20Northwest%20History/Lessons/Lesson%202/2.html

anthonypants
May 6, 2007

by Nyc_Tattoo
Dinosaur Gum
Unfortunately I don't have a great answer for the follow-up question, "Why does Oregon (and Portland specifically) have so much human trafficking?"

got any sevens
Feb 9, 2013

by Cyrano4747
There are billboards around tukwila that say there's a lot of kid trafficing here but I've never seen it so I can't really fight it :shrug:

Meydey
Dec 31, 2005

Needs more graphs

RuanGacho
Jun 20, 2002

"You're gunna break it!"

Black Diamond is doing it's best to emulate CIA sabotage OPs in their own town:



http://voiceofthevalley.com/2016/12/04/shock-awe-hit-black-diamond-city-council-meeting/

quote:

Shock and awe hit Black Diamond City Council during their Thursday, December 1, City Council meeting as Councilmembers Erika Morgan, Brian Weber and Pat Pepper were served a stack of lawsuit documents during the meeting’s second comment period at the end of the meeting.

CEO of Oakpointe Communities, Brian Ross came forward and began reading from his letter to the Black Diamond Community while a stack of documents were being served to the Council. He went on to state that a lawsuit against Councilmembers Morgan, Pepper and Weber was being filed that included over 135 violations of the Open Public Meeting Act (OPMA). “The illegal behavior of Council Members Morgan, Pepper and Weber represents a dereliction of duty to the citizens of Black Diamond that elected them to their respective offices,” Ross stated,

The consideration for a lawsuit did not come easy, but came only after several months of study, deliberation and consideration. Point after point was documented in the 32-page document (along with 14 supporting exhibits) showing how the three majority Councilmember were conducting business.

http://www.maplevalleyreporter.com/news/black-diamond-fails-to-pass-budget/

quote:

Weber announced he had amendments he would like to make to the budget during the Dec. 1 meeting, but did not go into much detail about them.

During the Dec. 8 workshop on the budget, Weber again declined to give more information about his amendments.

When his amendments made the rounds on Dec. 15, it was the first time the council, the city attorney, the city’s financial director and the public had seen them.

Weber held up his amendments and related budget ordinance as part of a “truly historic and forward-thinking budget.”

But many residents at the meeting criticized these amendments as deceptive because they were introduced two weeks after the final public hearing on the budget, which was held Dec. 1.

Benson was less eloquent, calling Weber’s amendments “a piece of sh*t.”

quote:

The city’s insurance carrier, the Association of Washington Cities, made it clear in a Dec. 15 letter that it will not pay or compensate the city, the council as a whole or the individual council members for their defense costs because the city’s coverage does not include OPMA violations.

They're playing on a micro level what the republicans have been flirting with nationally:
http://www.king5.com/news/local/black-diamond-passes-budget-narrowly-avoids-government-shutdown/379542268


http://www.kiro7.com/news/local/no-police-water-if-king-co-city-doesnt-adopt-budget/479256070

Background from june:
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/eastside/city-hall-warfare-over-development-holds-black-diamond-hostage/

quote:

Councilmembers Erika Morgan, Pat Pepper and Brian Weber are trying to wrest control of city government from Mayor Carol Benson. They say she hasn’t done enough to control a development that would add 6,060 homes over the next 20 years and quintuple the rural King County town’s population of 4,200.

City business has ground to a halt as the new council majority delays payment of even routine bills including gas for police cars and 911 service. For several weeks the city was without a building inspector because the three voted down a contract proposed by city staff.

e: added map

RuanGacho fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Dec 30, 2016

Javid
Oct 21, 2004

:jpmf:
Never change, local politics.

If you've never watched a council meeting in a small city, do so. It's EXACTLY that insane.

Meydey
Dec 31, 2005
I lived in Black Diamond for 5 years in the 80's. It is nothing more than a speed trap populated by old people. And a bakery.

Schwack
Jan 31, 2003

Someone needs to stop this! Sherman has lost his mind! Peyton is completely unable to defend himself out there!

Meydey posted:

I lived in Black Diamond for 5 years in the 80's. It is nothing more than a speed trap populated by old people. And a bakery.

So, most small towns in Oregon and Washington.

The real question is... Did they elect Trump and do you have maps/graphs?

El Jebus
Jun 18, 2008

This avatar is paid for by "Avatars for improving Lowtax's spine by any means that doesn't result in him becoming brain dead by putting his brain into a cyborg body and/or putting him in a exosuit due to fears of the suit being hacked and crushing him during a cyberpunk future timeline" Foundation

Schwack posted:

So, most small towns in Oregon and Washington.

The real question is... Did they elect Trump and do you have maps/graphs?

Does the bakery have a degree, or is there a college?

Aryu Kiddimeh
Nov 9, 2012
We will assume that this poll has a margin of error of 8 since there were 40 votes total and only 32 registered for Washington, the one true core, center, location, and heart of the PNW. Now I'd like everyone to keep in mind, that there term under discussion here is "the Pacific Northwest" not just simply the 'Northwest,' I have a feeling that putting these two terms side by side and contemplating what the difference could or should be in lexicographical meaning will clear up any confusion among unfortunate souls that mistakenly and naively include Idaho in a misguided attempt to appear relevant and knowledgeable pertaining the subjects at hand, when it is quite simply clear to everybody that they have never set foot near the PNW nor a map nor globe nor institute of higher learning for that matter.

Ditocoaf
Jun 1, 2011

Aryu Kiddimeh posted:

We will assume that this poll has a margin of error of 8 since there were 40 votes total and only 32 registered for Washington, the one true core, center, location, and heart of the PNW. Now I'd like everyone to keep in mind, that there term under discussion here is "the Pacific Northwest" not just simply the 'Northwest,' I have a feeling that putting these two terms side by side and contemplating what the difference could or should be in lexicographical meaning will clear up any confusion among unfortunate souls that mistakenly and naively include Idaho in a misguided attempt to appear relevant and knowledgeable pertaining the subjects at hand, when it is quite simply clear to everybody that they have never set foot near the PNW nor a map nor globe nor institute of higher learning for that matter.

It looks like some people avoided voting for Washington to help Oregon catch up. Shameful.

Tier one PNW: Washington and B.C. Tier two PNW: Oregon and Alaska. Tier three PNW: Idaho and some northern bits of california in a theoretical world where I'm willing to look closely enough at california to subdivide it. And probably the Yukon, if we're going to be that flexible.

Lazy_Liberal
Sep 17, 2005

These stones are :sparkles: precious :sparkles:
Excited to be here on the ground floor of a fabulous thread filled with posts that are very fun and exciting indeed.

Ditocoaf
Jun 1, 2011

Lazy_Liberal posted:

Excited to be here on the ground floor of a fabulous thread filled with posts that are very fun and exciting indeed.

I know, I sometimes confused the old version of this with the the Seattle thread and the other Seattle thread, but I vaguely remember attempting to talk real politics in it once or twice. This new version should be totally full of genuine regional debate and discussion, no dismissive sniping, hot takes, or reactionary boundary-defending whatsoever. I'll help make sure of that with posts like this one and the one above yours.

Actually I'm pretty sure that the argument at the end of the last thread proved (via concession) once and for all that hot takes are the only definitive and reliable lens with which to view recent history, and any other attempted kinds of analysis are bullshit. So this will be an excellent thread.

GodFish
Oct 10, 2012

We're your first, last, and only line of defense. We live in secret. We exist in shadow.

And we dress in black.
My hot take, the PNW is better than non-PNW sections of the US because we didn't vote for Trump, thus proving our moral and intellectual superiority for all time fart

Relevant Tangent
Nov 18, 2016

Tangentially Relevant

Aryu Kiddimeh posted:

We will assume that this poll has a margin of error of 8 since there were 40 votes total and only 32 registered for Washington, the one true core, center, location, and heart of the PNW. Now I'd like everyone to keep in mind, that there term under discussion here is "the Pacific Northwest" not just simply the 'Northwest,' I have a feeling that putting these two terms side by side and contemplating what the difference could or should be in lexicographical meaning will clear up any confusion among unfortunate souls that mistakenly and naively include Idaho in a misguided attempt to appear relevant and knowledgeable pertaining the subjects at hand, when it is quite simply clear to everybody that they have never set foot near the PNW nor a map nor globe nor institute of higher learning for that matter.

To be blunt, Idaho is the PNW's backyard, where you hide all your shameful 'hobby' projects. To deny us our status as a PNW state is to deny yourselves. Unless you're going to deny everyone east of the mountains (condemning Pullman/Spokane/Moscow/Coeur d'alene and all the lesser cities (loving Clarkston)) citizenship in Cascadia?

Error 404
Jul 17, 2009


MAGE CURES PLOT
Having spent time in couer d alene, im ok with exiling them

Meydey
Dec 31, 2005
I'm fine with making the border along the Cascades. Maybe all the way to Ellensburg so we get Leavenworth, but leave out Yakima.
Cascadia can look like the northern version of Chile.

El Mero Mero
Oct 13, 2001

Relevant Tangent posted:

To be blunt, Idaho is the PNW's backyard, where you hide all your shameful 'hobby' projects. To deny us our status as a PNW state is to deny yourselves. Unless you're going to deny everyone east of the mountains (condemning Pullman/Spokane/Moscow/Coeur d'alene and all the lesser cities (loving Clarkston)) citizenship in Cascadia?

Idaho's pretty distinctly the mountain West, despite what those liberal south-west hill dwellers might think/hope

E: also, glad to see this thread's back on track: we'll figure out who the true PNW Scotsmen are eventually!

El Mero Mero fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Dec 30, 2016

FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011

You can't hide from Idaho. It's part of you. It always has been. The history of the Northwest is intimately tied into Idaho.

Venuz Patrol
Mar 27, 2011

GodFish posted:

My hot take, the PNW is better than non-PNW sections of the US because we didn't vote for Trump, thus proving our moral and intellectual superiority for all time fart

my district voted 89% for hillary! and only 52% for coal tax :negative:

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

Schwack posted:

So, most small towns in Oregon and Washington.

The real question is... Did they elect Trump and do you have maps/graphs?

They appear to have voted Trump, 124 votes to 99. King County's election data website is realyl clunky so I'm not sure that's a full tally.

therobit
Aug 19, 2008

I've been tryin' to speak with you for a long time

Meydey posted:

I'm fine with making the border along the Cascades. Maybe all the way to Ellensburg so we get Leavenworth, but leave out Yakima.
Cascadia can look like the northern version of Chile.

You got something against Native Americans?

Schwack
Jan 31, 2003

Someone needs to stop this! Sherman has lost his mind! Peyton is completely unable to defend himself out there!

stubblyhead posted:

They appear to have voted Trump, 124 votes to 99. King County's election data website is realyl clunky so I'm not sure that's a full tally.

Can you make this into a clumsy map?

Prester Jane
Nov 4, 2008

by Hand Knit
So I just moved from San Antonio to Portland back in August, and I simply cannot get over just how much I love this city. Tomorrow my roomate and I are celebrating the new Years by smoking some top shelf MKULTRA (A strain with a reputation for insane munchies) until we can barely stand, then taking the light rail downtown (picks up at the end of our street) and then finally stumbling our way into an all-you-can-eat Brazilian steakhouse.

What I'm saying is that I love living here and am so very grateful that a place as magical as this city actually exists.

Meydey
Dec 31, 2005

therobit posted:

You got something against Native Americans?

Hey now. Indian John rest stop on 90 is my favorite place to pee on the way to my moms house in Yakima.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

Schwack posted:

Can you make this into a clumsy map?

RuanGacho
Jun 20, 2002

"You're gunna break it!"

Prester Jane posted:

So I just moved from San Antonio to Portland back in August, and I simply cannot get over just how much I love this city. Tomorrow my roomate and I are celebrating the new Years by smoking some top shelf MKULTRA (A strain with a reputation for insane munchies) until we can barely stand, then taking the light rail downtown (picks up at the end of our street) and then finally stumbling our way into an all-you-can-eat Brazilian steakhouse.

What I'm saying is that I love living here and am so very grateful that a place as magical as this city actually exists.

Welcome to the place the survivors will tell of in Tales in the night light of the smoldering atomic ruins of the yuuge border patrol robots.

Senor P.
Mar 27, 2006
I MUST TELL YOU HOW PEOPLE CARE ABOUT STUFF I DONT AND BE A COMPLETE CUNT ABOUT IT

Prester Jane posted:

So I just moved from San Antonio to Portland back in August, and I simply cannot get over just how much I love this city. Tomorrow my roomate and I are celebrating the new Years by smoking some top shelf MKULTRA (A strain with a reputation for insane munchies) until we can barely stand, then taking the light rail downtown (picks up at the end of our street) and then finally stumbling our way into an all-you-can-eat Brazilian steakhouse.

What I'm saying is that I love living here and am so very grateful that a place as magical as this city actually exists.

It's all fun and games until a hobo smears poo poo on your car. But if you don't have a car I guess you can replace that with a hobo smearing poo poo elsewhere...

Senor P. fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Dec 31, 2016

HashtagGirlboss
Jan 4, 2005

Prester Jane posted:

So I just moved from San Antonio to Portland back in August, and I simply cannot get over just how much I love this city. Tomorrow my roomate and I are celebrating the new Years by smoking some top shelf MKULTRA (A strain with a reputation for insane munchies) until we can barely stand, then taking the light rail downtown (picks up at the end of our street) and then finally stumbling our way into an all-you-can-eat Brazilian steakhouse.

What I'm saying is that I love living here and am so very grateful that a place as magical as this city actually exists.

Last week, I went down to the Plaid for some cigarettes. There was a middle aged black man standing outside. I've seen him around before. While I'm inside, a police officer walks in and asks the attendant if he's causing problems. The cashier says no and asks why. She responds that the pizza place next door has complained about him loitering and she's going to ask him to move along. The cashier comments that the guy shows up a few times a week and he thinks he's just waiting for a ride. I made my purchase and left, the cop was out there hassling the guy, asking him to move on. Can't have people loitering in front of Plaid in inner-SE, right? Wait. Aren't there always people loitering in front of that Plaid? Well yeah, but this guy was apparently different.

Anyway, I used to go to this bro-ey sports bar near my house, primarily because it was the only spot in walking distance that I could consistently find a TV to watch my college team (understandable given that I went to a not all that great right now SEC school and this is PAC-12 country). Went there often enough that I got to be familiar with the Saturday staff, and they started just taking my order and cashing me out at the end, instead of asking for a card to run a tab. I'd have friends with me sometimes and they were comfortable enough with me that they'd just serve the table and cash us out at the end. Made it through football and basketball season this way. Then one day I bring along a different friend, happens to be a black man. They serve the table like always, the waitress brings us a second round of drinks, like always. Then, as the second round is getting ready to need refreshing, the waitress comes up and asks for a card to hold for the order. Says her manager has changed policies and they have to get a card for every table now. Okay. Just a coincidence, right? Nothing suspect about the timing.

My good friend and roommate was out at the anti-Trump rallies and got called a host of derogatory terms for Hispanics by some of the aggrieved motorists (she's not Hispanic, but that doesn't matter).

Well, that's just race. Guy came through the neighborhood a few weeks ago pulling the cans and bottles out of the blue/yellow bins to turn in for the deposits. Like a lot of people, I just put my cans/bottles in a bag next to the bins to make it easy. My neighbor doesn't. He yells at people when they start poking in the bin.

I have lots of little anecdotes about things I've seen/heard/witnessed.

This is truly a magical place. If you're the right kind of person and in the right crowd of people. But there's a lot of just under the surface non-overt racism and there's a ton of contempt for the homeless. And as the town gets richer and richer and more and more people get pushed out it's just going to get worse, I think.

Error 404
Jul 17, 2009


MAGE CURES PLOT

xrunner posted:

Last week, I went down to the Plaid for some cigarettes. There was a middle aged black man standing outside. I've seen him around before. While I'm inside, a police officer walks in and asks the attendant if he's causing problems. The cashier says no and asks why. She responds that the pizza place next door has complained about him loitering and she's going to ask him to move along. The cashier comments that the guy shows up a few times a week and he thinks he's just waiting for a ride. I made my purchase and left, the cop was out there hassling the guy, asking him to move on. Can't have people loitering in front of Plaid in inner-SE, right? Wait. Aren't there always people loitering in front of that Plaid? Well yeah, but this guy was apparently different.

Anyway, I used to go to this bro-ey sports bar near my house, primarily because it was the only spot in walking distance that I could consistently find a TV to watch my college team (understandable given that I went to a not all that great right now SEC school and this is PAC-12 country). Went there often enough that I got to be familiar with the Saturday staff, and they started just taking my order and cashing me out at the end, instead of asking for a card to run a tab. I'd have friends with me sometimes and they were comfortable enough with me that they'd just serve the table and cash us out at the end. Made it through football and basketball season this way. Then one day I bring along a different friend, happens to be a black man. They serve the table like always, the waitress brings us a second round of drinks, like always. Then, as the second round is getting ready to need refreshing, the waitress comes up and asks for a card to hold for the order. Says her manager has changed policies and they have to get a card for every table now. Okay. Just a coincidence, right? Nothing suspect about the timing.

My good friend and roommate was out at the anti-Trump rallies and got called a host of derogatory terms for Hispanics by some of the aggrieved motorists (she's not Hispanic, but that doesn't matter).

Well, that's just race. Guy came through the neighborhood a few weeks ago pulling the cans and bottles out of the blue/yellow bins to turn in for the deposits. Like a lot of people, I just put my cans/bottles in a bag next to the bins to make it easy. My neighbor doesn't. He yells at people when they start poking in the bin.

I have lots of little anecdotes about things I've seen/heard/witnessed.

This is truly a magical place. If you're the right kind of person and in the right crowd of people. But there's a lot of just under the surface non-overt racism and there's a ton of contempt for the homeless. And as the town gets richer and richer and more and more people get pushed out it's just going to get worse, I think.

This is a good post.
But you forgot the literal nazis running over a black dude a few months ago.

And the mayor covering for the cop who loves nazis

HashtagGirlboss
Jan 4, 2005

Error 404 posted:

This is a good post.
But you forgot the literal nazis running over a black dude a few months ago.

And the mayor covering for the cop who loves nazis

I considered mentioning those ones but I wanted to stick with personal anecdotes. The big stuff gets press coverage but people tend to act like it's done by abhorrent people and doesnt speak to the reality of the community. It's all the little stuff that is easy to not see if you don't want to that is more telling in my opinion.

People being dicks to the homeless is another. I mean, one of the most popular ideas for homeless assistance in Portland is rounding them up and sticking them in a literal jail that's in an out of the way spot with poor access to transit. If you listened to the rhetoric about springwater corridor this summer it sounded like it was straight out of mad max. I went down there a few times and while it was sad to see so many people outdoors, it didn't much live up to the poetic descriptions of devastation I read in the paper or heard from assholes at work.

Magical little town if you like Pilates studios and fancy coffee and overpriced tiny hamburgers.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I think there is plenty of good here too. But I find we like to pat each other on the back and revel in our reputation as this progressive wonderland at the expense of addressing very real problems in our community.

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Error 404
Jul 17, 2009


MAGE CURES PLOT

xrunner posted:

I mean, don't get me wrong, I think there is plenty of good here too. But I find we like to pat each other on the back and revel in our reputation as this progressive wonderland at the expense of addressing very real problems in our community.

Portland.txt

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