Pacific Northwest Thread Mk. II: Crossing the Duwamish

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What regions belong in the Pacific Northwest?
	Alaska, US
	British Columbia, CA
	Washington, US
	Oregon, US
	Idaho, US
	Montana, US
	Wyoming, US
	California, US (MODS PLEASE BAN ANYONE VOTING FOR THIS OPTION TIA)

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George: Nov 27, 2004; No love for your made-up things.

anthonypants posted:

Get leftist candidates for every available Democrat seat up for election in 2018.

It's this. The Democrats are arguing over the morality of punching Nazis while my cousin was shot by one.

gently caress 'em. They aren't going to do a god drat thing for us. Replace them.

# ? Jan 25, 2017 05:24

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 12:44

coyo7e: Aug 23, 2007; by zen death robot

Doorknob Slobber posted:

https://www.richardsilverstein.com/2017/01/24/uw-shooter-identified/

But really, we should just listen to what these people have to say. We shouldn't call this shooting violence and we should keep level heads when reporting on this incident and give everyone the benefit of the doubt. sarcasm

You really, really do not want to source anything from Tikkun Olam blog. Richard Silverstein is a sick person.

There must be some other more credible source, outside of this guy.

# ? Jan 25, 2017 06:11

oxbrain: Aug 18, 2005; Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip and come on up to the mothership.

turn it up TURN ME ON posted:

What the gently caress can they even do? The Republicans hold every branch of government right now by a majority, and most State governments. And Republicans are using legislative tricks to keep filibusters at bay - they learned that from 8 years of having the Democrats do that to them.

The democrats trick to prevent a republican filibuster is to capitulate to their every demand.

No loving poo poo the march didn't accomplish anything. Since when do republicans care what women and democrats think?

# ? Jan 25, 2017 06:12

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

coyo7e posted:

You really, really do not want to source anything from Tikkun Olam blog. Richard Silverstein is a sick person.

There must be some other more credible source, outside of this guy.

Care to expand on this?

# ? Jan 25, 2017 06:17

coyo7e: Aug 23, 2007; by zen death robot

Error 404 posted:

Care to expand on this?

He's one of the rabid pro-BDS jews who make anyone else who care to examine BDS, a bad name.

He sources a lot of stuff which is simply uncheckable because it's in native language, and he's a rabid conspiratorialist whenever he comes across a conflict which might show the state of Israel in a negative light. He will also lash out at you exactly like Donald Trump does, if he notices you mentioning him or his links in any online social space - like "you must be a paid shill for Mossad" kind of accusations simply from a random online social media post.

I followed his blog for a few months - maybe a year or three-ish back? He seemed to have a lot of "insider leak info" from within the israeli military, but eventually the lack of translatable sources and his virulent and very personal attacks on me whenever I happened to mention something he'd posted (when I had come into the picture thinking that I was on HIS side as an ally), yeah, just leave him alone. He's a virulent self-hating anti-semite conspiracist troll who lives on his wife's income. And It hurts me to even put it in writing but do the thing I did - read his articles as best you can, follow his works, and see his reaction to whomever he feels is not worthy of his admiration. He's a gross hateful old man who's a professional blogger - except for the whole "garnering an income" thing.

Maybe he's written some books, I am not interested in reading them because he's basically a tiny, Israel-hating trump who is himself jewish. It's complicated, at least.

edit: that said, "Tikkun Olam" (heal the world) is pretty much the "mni wiconi" or "mitakuye oyasin" of the jewish sphere, as far as I understand it. It's a great phrase but this lone angry crazy man has kind of camped on most of its internet domain.

coyo7e fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Jan 25, 2017

# ? Jan 25, 2017 06:25

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

BDS is good though

# ? Jan 25, 2017 06:28

coyo7e: Aug 23, 2007; by zen death robot

Error 404 posted:

BDS is good though

Yes, and that's why this guy is so dangerous - he really sounds good at first

# ? Jan 25, 2017 06:29

anthonypants: May 6, 2007; by Nyc_Tattoo; Dinosaur Gum

coyo7e posted:

He's one of the rabid pro-BDS jews who make anyone else who care to examine BDS, a bad name.

He sources a lot of stuff which is simply uncheckable because it's in native language, and he's a rabid conspiratorialist whenever he comes across a conflict which might show the state of Israel in a negative light. He will also lash out at you exactly like Donald Trump does, if he notices you mentioning him or his links in any online social space - like "you must be a paid shill for Mossad" kind of accusations simply from a random online social media post.

I followed his blog for a few months - maybe a year or three-ish back? He seemed to have a lot of "insider leak info" from within the israeli military, but eventually the lack of translatable sources and his virulent and very personal attacks on me whenever I happened to mention something he'd posted (when I had come into the picture thinking that I was on HIS side as an ally), yeah, just leave him alone. He's a virulent self-hating anti-semite conspiracist troll who lives on his wife's income. And It hurts me to even put it in writing but do the thing I did - read his articles as best you can, follow his works, and see his reaction to whomever he feels is not worthy of his admiration. He's a gross hateful old man who's a professional blogger - except for the whole "garnering an income" thing.

Maybe he's written some books, I am not interested in reading them because he's basically a tiny, Israel-hating trump who is himself jewish. It's complicated, at least.

edit: that said, "Tikkun Olam" (heal the world) is pretty much the "mni wiconi" or "mitakuye oyasin" of the jewish sphere, as far as I understand it. It's a great phrase but this lone angry crazy man has kind of camped on most of its internet domain.

I dunno, I'm loath to believe some rando blog that's going to name the shooter, but just because you rubbed someone the wrong way doesn't automatically mean they're a bad person.

# ? Jan 25, 2017 09:02

Space Gopher: Jul 31, 2006; BLITHERING IDIOT AND HARDCORE DURIAN APOLOGIST. LET ME TELL YOU WHY THIS SHIT DON'T STINK EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KNOW IT DOES BECAUSE I'M SUPER CULTURED.

seiferguy posted:

I read her statement too. Basically it read like "I wanted to shut it down because I too, did not agree with the message. But I didn't want to have to deal with angry e-mails from the alt-right so I let it happen!"

Not really. The UW is a public institution, which means she has two options:
- Let Milo speak, with clear disclaimers that the event is put on by the College Republican club rather than endorsed by the university. Let him come up, do his pathetic meme-filled powerpoint deck, collect his money, and pray he leaves relatively quietly
- Tell Milo "no," and face a suspiciously well-funded First Amendment lawsuit which will bring him all kinds of publicity. Because the UW is a public institution, and he'll have good lawyers, he will almost certainly win, at which point he'll have a very public victory under his belt and incentive to be even nastier when he makes his legally protected speech

Also, it's worth noting that her brother was shot and killed by the Klan, while helping to lead a civil rights march. She is deeply, personally opposed to white supremacists like Milo. She has done good work on equity in higher education, and has been candid about the levers she can't pull, even as president of the institution, because of the nature of the institution. There are much more deserving targets of ire in this whole mess.

For instance:

anthonypants posted:

Seattle Times has named the victim, but not the shooter, out of their respect for fascism. Remarkably, they also printed this:

Go back and flip through the captions on some of the photos. The Trump supporter was "beaten." A protester gets shot and he's "suffering from a gunshot wound" that, I guess, mysteriously happened during the protest for no discernible reason.

# ? Jan 25, 2017 09:29

anthonypants: May 6, 2007; by Nyc_Tattoo; Dinosaur Gum

Space Gopher posted:

Not really. The UW is a public institution, which means she has two options:
- Let Milo speak, with clear disclaimers that the event is put on by the College Republican club rather than endorsed by the university. Let him come up, do his pathetic meme-filled powerpoint deck, collect his money, and pray he leaves relatively quietly
- Tell Milo "no," and face a suspiciously well-funded First Amendment lawsuit which will bring him all kinds of publicity. Because the UW is a public institution, and he'll have good lawyers, he will almost certainly win, at which point he'll have a very public victory under his belt and incentive to be even nastier when he makes his legally protected speech

Also, it's worth noting that her brother was shot and killed by the Klan, while helping to lead a civil rights march. She is deeply, personally opposed to white supremacists like Milo. She has done good work on equity in higher education, and has been candid about the levers she can't pull, even as president of the institution, because of the nature of the institution. There are much more deserving targets of ire in this whole mess.

For instance:

Go back and flip through the captions on some of the photos. The Trump supporter was "beaten." A protester gets shot and he's "suffering from a gunshot wound" that, I guess, mysteriously happened during the protest for no discernible reason.

Whoever gave you that red text was doing the Lord's work.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Jan 25, 2017 15:37

Space Gopher: Jul 31, 2006; BLITHERING IDIOT AND HARDCORE DURIAN APOLOGIST. LET ME TELL YOU WHY THIS SHIT DON'T STINK EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KNOW IT DOES BECAUSE I'M SUPER CULTURED.

anthonypants posted:

Whoever gave you that red text was doing the Lord's work.

Oh boy, a weak burn on an even weaker title.

What should the UW have done?

# ? Jan 25, 2017 15:41

anthonypants: May 6, 2007; by Nyc_Tattoo; Dinosaur Gum

Space Gopher posted:

Oh boy, a weak burn on an even weaker title.

What should the UW have done?

For starters? Read the first five words of the first amendment.

# ? Jan 25, 2017 15:53

coyo7e: Aug 23, 2007; by zen death robot

anthonypants posted:

I dunno, I'm loath to believe some rando blog that's going to name the shooter, but just because you rubbed someone the wrong way doesn't automatically mean they're a bad person.

It's easy to verify, Google him a little bit.

# ? Jan 25, 2017 16:33

Mr. Lobe: Feb 23, 2007; ... Dry bones...

I'm pretty sure he ID'd the guy correctly, though. While it's circumstantial evidence, I saw that guy agitating poo poo, and the info that was available by googling him a day ago pointed strong fingers to being a gun rear end in a top hat. His facebook and twitter were both public when that blog was initially posted. I think it's very likely that's the guy.

Mr. Lobe fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Jan 25, 2017

# ? Jan 25, 2017 16:37

Space Gopher: Jul 31, 2006; BLITHERING IDIOT AND HARDCORE DURIAN APOLOGIST. LET ME TELL YOU WHY THIS SHIT DON'T STINK EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KNOW IT DOES BECAUSE I'M SUPER CULTURED.

anthonypants posted:

For starters? Read the first five words of the first amendment.

Are you secretly Clarence Thomas?

Pretty much everybody else agrees that the First Amendment is incorporated against the states by the Fourteenth Amendment's due process clause. State governments are bound by the same First Amendment restrictions as the federal government. The Supreme Court has affirmed this specifically for state universities in Healy v. James and Papish v. Board of Curators. This is why every large public university has a regular contingent of bible-thumpers who yell at students in the middle of campus: they have a well-established legal right to speak at public institutions.

I'll admit, those cases by themselves would seem to give a decent justification to stop Milo from speaking at the university: he is explicitly there to gently caress with the ability of the institution to educate non-white/male students. "Speech rights can't directly interfere with education" is the one consistent out that SCOTUS has given schools for controlling on-campus speech. So, stopping his speech would raise novel issues, which would need to be settled by the courts.

Let's assume that the UW cleans up in every single lower court. Naturally, Milo will be backed by a tidal wave of libertarian money at this point, so he'll appeal all the way up to SCOTUS over the next couple of years. Which will, at that point, have a minimum 5-4 Republican majority with a Trump appointee and a guy who has fought for sexism and racism on his alma mater's campus. Even Thomas's views on the due process clause probably won't bail you out, considering his stances on affirmative action in higher ed.

By refusing Milo, you'd just set up an alley-oop on a landmark Supreme Court decision establishing the right of only-technically-not-nazis to harass people on college campuses. By the time he wins the court decision and comes back to speak, it'd be a national cause for all kinds of awful people. They'd burn the bricks in Red Square. And he'd still get to do his speech.

# ? Jan 25, 2017 16:44

anthonypants: May 6, 2007; by Nyc_Tattoo; Dinosaur Gum

Space Gopher posted:

Are you secretly Clarence Thomas?

Pretty much everybody else agrees that the First Amendment is incorporated against the states by the Fourteenth Amendment's due process clause. State governments are bound by the same First Amendment restrictions as the federal government. The Supreme Court has affirmed this specifically for state universities in Healy v. James and Papish v. Board of Curators. This is why every large public university has a regular contingent of bible-thumpers who yell at students in the middle of campus: they have a well-established legal right to speak at public institutions.

I'll admit, those cases by themselves would seem to give a decent justification to stop Milo from speaking at the university: he is explicitly there to gently caress with the ability of the institution to educate non-white/male students. "Speech rights can't directly interfere with education" is the one consistent out that SCOTUS has given schools for controlling on-campus speech. So, stopping his speech would raise novel issues, which would need to be settled by the courts.

Let's assume that the UW cleans up in every single lower court. Naturally, Milo will be backed by a tidal wave of libertarian money at this point, so he'll appeal all the way up to SCOTUS over the next couple of years. Which will, at that point, have a minimum 5-4 Republican majority with a Trump appointee and a guy who has fought for sexism and racism on his alma mater's campus. Even Thomas's views on the due process clause probably won't bail you out, considering his stances on affirmative action in higher ed.

By refusing Milo, you'd just set up an alley-oop on a landmark Supreme Court decision establishing the right of only-technically-not-nazis to harass people on college campuses. By the time he wins the court decision and comes back to speak, it'd be a national cause for all kinds of awful people. They'd burn the bricks in Red Square. And he'd still get to do his speech.

Does that "tidal wave of libertarian money" include the money he grifted from nazi/gamergate donators like you?

# ? Jan 25, 2017 17:10

Space Gopher: Jul 31, 2006; BLITHERING IDIOT AND HARDCORE DURIAN APOLOGIST. LET ME TELL YOU WHY THIS SHIT DON'T STINK EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KNOW IT DOES BECAUSE I'M SUPER CULTURED.

anthonypants posted:

Does that "tidal wave of libertarian money" include the money he grifted from nazi/gamergate donators like you?

No. I'm not sure where you get the idea I support any of this.

Milo's entire schitck is to set up a "heads I win some right now, tails I win big in the long run" scenario. The UW chose to let him speak, not because it was good, but because it didn't set him up for a larger victory.

The reason Milo can run this con is because of larger issues like Trump getting to steal Obama's SCOTUS pick. The UW administration has no real ability to effect change at that level, and they made what was probably the best choice they could in incredibly lovely circumstances. Pointing out that this situation exists does not mean I support the nazi shitheads who are taking advantage of it.

And, to answer your question: If Peter Thiel is willing to bankroll expensive lawyers for an over-the-hill pro wrestler's fight against an occasionally political blog, he would be willing to dump essentially unlimited money on Milo's right-to-harass fight.

Once again: what should the UW have done, and how do you think it would have played out? Please keep in mind that "tell him 'no', and the attention-loving nazi manchild would obviously go away without a fuss" is not a realistic option.

Space Gopher fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Jan 25, 2017

# ? Jan 25, 2017 17:26

coyo7e: Aug 23, 2007; by zen death robot

Mr. Lobe posted:

I'm pretty sure he ID'd the guy correctly, though. While it's circumstantial evidence, I saw that guy agitating poo poo, and the info that was available by googling him a day ago pointed strong fingers to being a gun rear end in a top hat. His facebook and twitter were both public when that blog was initially posted. I think it's very likely that's the guy.

I agree, I just know that specific source is not anything you want to cite if someone asks for proof of something.

# ? Jan 25, 2017 20:23

anthonypants: May 6, 2007; by Nyc_Tattoo; Dinosaur Gum

Here's a list of Washington initiatives you don't want to sign petitions for, if you live in Washington: https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/initiatives/Initiatives.aspx?y=2017&t=p

# ? Jan 25, 2017 23:16

anthonypants: May 6, 2007; by Nyc_Tattoo; Dinosaur Gum

Micah Rhodes was arrested https://twitter.com/itsmikebivins/status/824402935836663808

# ? Jan 26, 2017 00:59

HashtagGirlboss: Jan 4, 2005

anthonypants posted:

Micah Rhodes was arrested https://twitter.com/itsmikebivins/status/824402935836663808

Are there five riot cops for every civilian there? What a stupidly over-the-top show of force. They really want to intimidate people.

# ? Jan 26, 2017 01:02

anthonypants: May 6, 2007; by Nyc_Tattoo; Dinosaur Gum

xrunner posted:

Are there five riot cops for every civilian there? What a stupidly over-the-top show of force. They really want to intimidate people.

Funny you should mention that.

http://koin.com/2017/01/25/protests-expected-throughout-portland-wednesday/ posted:

The group is angry about police response to Friday�s anti-Trump protests. Police said their actions were in response to protesters who threw �rocks, bottles, flares and unknown liquids,� at officers dressed in riot gear.

In response to the calls for his termination, Marshman said, �I�m not going to resign.�

The chief told KOIN 6 News he was �surprised� they called for his resignation. He�s been managing local protests for 26 years and said he always deploys the least amount of forces possible for protests.

# ? Jan 26, 2017 01:10

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

anthonypants posted:

Funny you should mention that.

ACAB

# ? Jan 26, 2017 01:21

seiferguy: Jun 9, 2005; FLAWED
INTUITION; Toilet Rascal

anthonypants posted:

Here's a list of Washington initiatives you don't want to sign petitions for, if you live in Washington: https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/initiatives/Initiatives.aspx?y=2017&t=p

Tim Eyman hasn't had an initiative qualify for the ballot since 2013. He hasn't had a ballot pass on a statewide level and not be ruled unconstitutional since 2005. I think most people see through his crap now.

# ? Jan 26, 2017 01:44

anthonypants: May 6, 2007; by Nyc_Tattoo; Dinosaur Gum

seiferguy posted:

Tim Eyman hasn't had an initiative qualify for the ballot since 2013. He hasn't had a ballot pass on a statewide level and not be ruled unconstitutional since 2005. I think most people see through his crap now.

Sure, but just in case. I don't know if they put Tim Eyman's name on those petitions up there. And there's a bathroom one in there from some woman who might get called a TERF at first glance, but couldn't pass as feminist if she tried

# ? Jan 26, 2017 02:11

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

Also, after the last year, assuming basic political literacy is NOT something you wanna do.

If it goes without saying, say it anyway.

# ? Jan 26, 2017 02:19

Lazy_Liberal: Sep 17, 2005; These stones are precious

anthonypants posted:

Funny you should mention that.

lolololololol "least amount of force"

# ? Jan 26, 2017 02:30

Doorknob Slobber: Sep 10, 2006; by Fluffdaddy

anthonypants posted:

Here's a list of Washington initiatives you don't want to sign petitions for, if you live in Washington: https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/initiatives/Initiatives.aspx?y=2017&t=p

if you see a petition sign a big ol' gently caress YOU on there

# ? Jan 26, 2017 02:48

Shifty Nipples: Apr 8, 2007

The only positive interaction with police is no interaction with police.

# ? Jan 26, 2017 02:50

Javid: Oct 21, 2004

My only interaction with the portland police was them having a MAX train held at the station for the half a loving hour it took them to actually get there because a dude had a knife. Not like, was brandishing, literally a sheathed knife on his belt, standing on the train staring at the wall like everyone else on board. Nothing about that whole experience wasn't absurd.

# ? Jan 26, 2017 04:17

DeathMuffin: May 25, 2004; Cake or Death

anthonypants posted:

Sure, but just in case. I don't know if they put Tim Eyman's name on those petitions up there. And there's a bathroom one in there from some woman who might get called a TERF at first glance, but couldn't pass as feminist if she tried

She's a sock puppet for the Washington Family Policy Institute (i.e. Joseph Backholm - Christian righttist who has moved seamlessly from marriage equality to genital inspections). Same person who was behind I-1515 last year which narrowly failed to qualify for the ballot.

I'm pretty worried about this one tbh. The state bathroom bill will go nowhere, but I'm not so certain they can't get the ballot numbers together for it.

On the other hand, the Real Legalisation initiative looks pretty rad.

# ? Jan 26, 2017 04:42

HashtagGirlboss: Jan 4, 2005

Lazy_Liberal posted:

lolololololol "least amount of force"

Haha. Even the Oregonians chosen take fails to provide any justification https://m.youtube.com/watch?ebc=ANy...g&v=m5zK-tzYCQM.

I'm the assholes in the crowd cheering!

# ? Jan 26, 2017 05:31

Doorknob Slobber: Sep 10, 2006; by Fluffdaddy

IWW released another statement on the shooting The media has been absolutely hosed up on this subject.

I don't understand why our institutions serve to protect the victimizer in situations like this rather than the victim.

# ? Jan 26, 2017 08:01

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

Doorknob Slobber posted:

IWW released another statement on the shooting The media has been absolutely hosed up on this subject.

I don't understand why our institutions serve to protect the victimizer in situations like this rather than the victim.

Creeping fascism is a feature of, and not a deviation from, capitalism.

# ? Jan 26, 2017 09:16

DevNull: Apr 4, 2007; And sometimes is seen a strange spot in the sky
A human being that was given to fly

Error 404 posted:

Creeping fascism is a feature of, and not a deviation from, capitalism.

Yup. Fascism is what happens when capitalism can no longer defend itself with the usual state means, aka the police. It turns to non-state violence to attack left wing organization and labor movements. Some of the best reading on it is actually from Trotsky. https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1944/1944-fas.htm

Syriza has had to deal with fascism quite a bit recently. Left wing marches were getting attacked by fascists. The cops would have a line of riot shield between the protesters and the fascists. They would open a hole in the line, a fascist would come through and stab someone then run back through the line. The cops would then close up the hole. They were protecting the fascist attackers. In response, Syriza has had to organize their own defenders that show up to marches in homemade body armor and carrying wooden staffs to beat back any attackers. This is the only way to defend against fascist. Cops won't defend you.

# ? Jan 26, 2017 16:57

Mr. Lobe: Feb 23, 2007; ... Dry bones...

For anyone who is curious about the blow-by-blow, I wrote an article about what I saw on the J20 Milo shooting incident here.

# ? Jan 26, 2017 17:01

turn it up TURN ME ON: Mar 19, 2012; In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.

Javid posted:

My only interaction with the portland police was them having a MAX train held at the station for the half a loving hour it took them to actually get there because a dude had a knife. Not like, was brandishing, literally a sheathed knife on his belt, standing on the train staring at the wall like everyone else on board. Nothing about that whole experience wasn't absurd.

I saw a really pretty girl po-po sitting in her car in a parking lot. I think she was just writing a report or something. I said "Hi, I know there's a lot of poo poo going on but I hope you have a good day." because it was a couple of days after the election.

That's my portland police story.

# ? Jan 26, 2017 18:08

anthonypants: May 6, 2007; by Nyc_Tattoo; Dinosaur Gum

turn it up TURN ME ON posted:

I saw a really pretty girl po-po sitting in her car in a parking lot. I think she was just writing a report or something. I said "Hi, I know there's a lot of poo poo going on but I hope you have a good day." because it was a couple of days after the election.

That's my portland police story.

All Cops Are Bastards

# ? Jan 26, 2017 18:15

DR FRASIER KRANG: Feb 4, 2005; "Are you forgetting that just this afternoon I was punched in the face by a turtle now dead?

turn it up TURN ME ON posted:

I saw a really pretty girl po-po sitting in her car in a parking lot. I think she was just writing a report or something. I said "Hi, I know there's a lot of poo poo going on but I hope you have a good day." because it was a couple of days after the election.

That's my portland police story.

Great story about talking to a girl. Would read more.

# ? Jan 26, 2017 18:18

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 25, 2024 12:44

Relevant Tangent: Nov 18, 2016; Tangentially Relevant

anthonypants posted:

All Cops Are Bastards

You can still love them though.

# ? Jan 26, 2017 19:02

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Pacific Northwest Thread Mk. II: Crossing the Duwamish

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