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Is hookers the one where you want the lowest score The gently caress is going on with this sniping. I don't want it! I can't handle the numbers!
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Jan 31, 2017 16:00
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TinTower posted:We did have a general election which was won by a party who promised to make those cuts, though. I'm fairly certain a general election isnt the same as direct democracy on a broad set of subjects.
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Jan 31, 2017 16:04
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Regarde Aduck posted:Is hookers the one where you want the lowest score No, I was thinking of former Ireland international Keith Wood. I did say hookers plural but he's the only one I can think of off the top of my head, sorry
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Jan 31, 2017 16:05
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TheRat posted:I'm fairly certain a general election isnt the same as direct democracy on a broad set of subjects. Yes, a general election has legal power behind it.
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Jan 31, 2017 16:05
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forkboy84 posted:No, I was thinking of former Ireland international Keith Wood. I did say hookers plural but he's the only one I can think of off the top of my head, sorry you're forgetting Brian Moore, who seems to take great revelry in putting the boot into Piers Morgan whenever the chance arises
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Jan 31, 2017 16:15
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forkboy84 posted:We should leave the EU & create our own, with blackjack and hookers and nationalised industries.
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Jan 31, 2017 16:18
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Same old tories with their blackjack. Vote Owen Smith for People's Pontoon.
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Jan 31, 2017 16:20
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ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:you're forgetting Brian Moore, who seems to take great revelry in putting the boot into Piers Morgan whenever the chance arises I should really be able to name a Scottish hooker though. Like the Glasgow Warriors one from the heroic destruction of Leicester. But no. It's a bit embarrassing for someone who has actually attended Warriors games, albeit 6+ years ago.
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Jan 31, 2017 16:21
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I feel like the Lib Dems crowing about being the UKs defenders of EU membership a bit hollow considering Tim Farron has said that he would willingly go into coalition with the party that both announced the referendum and is actually enacting it. Not to mention the fact that helping the Tories enact more crushing austerity and draconian laws doesn't seem to be a problem here
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Jan 31, 2017 16:23
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spectralent posted:Yeah, I don't see how you can go "We're demanding these changes but if you don't want to make them that's fine you have our unconditional support anyway". If enough Tories are willing to defy the whip and political hell and vote No on principle, the amendments should pass anyway - they're just good ideas and the kind of safeguards those rebels want to see. Labour promising not to block Article 50 means there's much lower risk, Tories can vote for the sensible changes to the bill they want without siding against it. We'll see how many actually follow their convictions though It'll also be a way to feel out support for a rebellion, if there's a chance of that. It would be a big gamble though, TREACHEROUS LABOUR could be out of power for a generation if the Tories hold firm and use their majority to pass it. These are hosed up times and Brexit is going to define UK politics for years
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Jan 31, 2017 16:25
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LemonDrizzle posted:Corbyn's strategy on Brexit is to support the government with a three line whip on both readings. Is this actually the case? I had thought it was to just whip on the first reading? So confusing. 
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Jan 31, 2017 16:45
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is anybody stupid enough to actually think remaining in the eu is possible? yeah the three line whip is still alarmingly stupid but I just cant bring myself to care. A second referendum, with at least 55% remain would make it possible but people would legit get killed. Pick a hill to die on and that.
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Jan 31, 2017 16:51
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What are all these MPs going to do if Brexit is awful and there is a massive backlash against it? That seems like a likely possibility not obviously being prepared for.
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Jan 31, 2017 16:52
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The Tories are loving it up, this isn't the Brexit that people or Labour voted for, vote Labour and let us turn it around.
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Jan 31, 2017 16:53
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Spangly A posted:yeah the three line whip is still alarmingly stupid but I just cant bring myself to care. A second referendum, with at least 55% remain would make it possible but people would legit get killed. Pick a hill to die on and that. If it's the stone that starts the avalanche of an actual EU disintegration then there are worse hills to die on though.
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Jan 31, 2017 16:55
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vegetables posted:What are all these MPs going to do if Brexit is awful and there is a massive backlash against it? That seems like a likely possibility not obviously being prepared for. When Brexit is awful the backlash will be against remoaners and immigrants, not the Tories, who are seemingly bulletproof.
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Jan 31, 2017 16:58
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marktheando posted:When Brexit is awful the backlash will be against remoaners and immigrants, not the Tories, who are seemingly bulletproof. May deciding that supporting Trump is her hill to die seems like the first real chink in the armour though
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Jan 31, 2017 17:00
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Labour will get no credit for a 'successful' Brexit, and have now ensured they will share the blame if it goes wrong.
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Jan 31, 2017 17:00
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Pissflaps posted:Labour will get no credit for a 'successful' Brexit, and have now ensured they will share the blame if it goes wrong. Ah, but you see, Jeremy is playing eleven-dimensional chess to deliver a true worker's Brexit.
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Jan 31, 2017 17:07
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Spangly A posted:is anybody stupid enough to actually think remaining in the eu is possible? You don't have to die on this hill, but you could put up a fighting retreat rather than just throwing down your weapons and running away. It's bad politics. It splits the PLP but also splits Corbyn from an awful lot of his support. And also gives potential Tory rebels an excuse to not rebel.
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Jan 31, 2017 17:10
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I don't think there's a course of action where Labour are not hosed
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Jan 31, 2017 17:13
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forkboy84 posted:You don't have to die on this hill, but you could put up a fighting retreat rather than just throwing down your weapons and running away. They're not even doing that. They're switching sides and fighting with the Tories.
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Jan 31, 2017 17:14
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https://twitter.com/bbcnormans/status/826439112739680256
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Jan 31, 2017 17:17
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vegetables posted:What are all these MPs going to do if Brexit is awful and there is a massive backlash against it?
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Jan 31, 2017 17:19
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vegetables posted:What are all these MPs going to do if Brexit is awful and there is a massive backlash against it? That seems like a likely possibility not obviously being prepared for. Just repeatedly tell everyone it's Ok and anyone who says otherwise is talking down our great country
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Jan 31, 2017 17:22
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Trying to appeal to Brexiters with this article 50 shite while still being pro-immigration is just a really stupid position. Doesn't Corbs realise the entire referendum was about immigration? That these people hate Labour for not being racist enough and letting immigrants in under Blair?
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Jan 31, 2017 17:28
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I've been thinking about it, and I really feel that all of this could have been averted if Gordon Brown hadn't backed down and apologized to that bigoted woman.
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Jan 31, 2017 17:33
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marktheando posted:Trying to appeal to Brexiters with this article 50 shite while still being pro-immigration is just a really stupid position. Doesn't Corbs realise the entire referendum was about immigration? That these people hate Labour for not being racist enough and letting immigrants in under Blair? The idea within the party is that the democratic vote was on membership of the EU, so that's what you have to enact. While a lot of people might have voted for Brexit based on immigration, that wasn't what the actual vote was for. At that point Labour can counter the immigration narrative by funding public services, building houses and providing jobs, and so take away people's worries for why immigration is loving up the country. At least, that's the theory. The Tories are completely hosed on immigration by the way, because they can do none of the above things but cutting immigration is terrible for business. Meanwhile UKIP are breathing down their neck if they slacken up. There have been a few rumblings coming out of the Tories about how they have allowed this situation to get out of control by blaming everything on an non-existent bogeyman and overpromising on solutions, while at no point having any way at all of getting themselves out of the situation. It's going to be incredible if the media ever turns on the Tories, because basically the only thing propping them up at the minute is the impression that they are somehow doing a good job.
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Jan 31, 2017 17:42
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sebzilla posted:I've been thinking about it, and I really feel that all of this could have been averted if Gordon Brown hadn't backed down and apologized to that bigoted woman. e: MikeCrotch posted:There have been a few rumblings coming out of the Tories about how they have allowed this situation to get out of control by blaming everything on an non-existent bogeyman and overpromising on solutions, while at no point having any way at all of getting themselves out of the situation. Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Jan 31, 2017 |
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Jan 31, 2017 17:43
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Prince John posted:If it's the stone that starts the avalanche of an actual EU disintegration then there are worse hills to die on though. Well here's another possibility - poo poo is getting pretty real and every nation is going to have to deal with it somehow. With Trump especially you have the world's main superpower lead by a NATO-hating protectionist who's pissing off every other country at an inspirational rate. The whole landscape of free trade and military cooperation is potentially seeing a radical change, and right-wing populism is on the rise, so the EU project will need to adapt if it's going to survive Retaining the UK would obviously be a benefit, and us leaving - especially now - is a terrible idea, so it's in all our interests to come to a compromise. Assuming Article 50 can be reversed (and given the situation the courts might want to favour that interpretation) there's a possibility that the next two years can be spent reworking the EU, coming to an agreement where the UK government can say ok, things have changed and we need to stay, and where there's public support for this option. Sort of like the fantasy version of Cameron's Grand Renegotiation where he actually did anything and had any negotiating power Corbyn's whole 'remain in the EU' campaign kept touching on this idea, that he wasn't just advocating the status quo but wanting to remain in a reformed EU. One with different priorities, that addresses the issues that are affecting ordinary working people and stoking resentment against scapegoats to the benefit of the far right. A high-stakes negotiation like this might be a good way to actually get this poo poo done, where both sides are looking to make changes So now that it's happening, Labour (at the very least) wants to be able to influence this process, steer the government away from the dark path and build support for a meaningful compromise. And ideally, they want to win an election and be running the UK side themselves. Which means they need to avoid becoming pariahs and giving the "exit at all costs" wrecking crew a clear run to do what they like
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Jan 31, 2017 17:46
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marktheando posted:Doesn't Corbs realise the entire referendum was about immigration? I don't think this is true. It was a big part of it, but so were barmy Brussels bureaucrats telling us what to do and taking our money while foreign. Take back control and all that. Parties voting against article 50 would just prove the point, for those people.
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Jan 31, 2017 17:48
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Guavanaut posted:What are they going to blame instead? They can't blame capitalism, they can't go back to being oldschool paternalist Tories, are they just going to go full-grandad and start blaming the video machine technologies? Well if Theresa May and the denizens of internet comments section have their way, the answer is go Full Fash. Hopefully the events of last night and the further planned protests will show we're not ready to tolerate that yet
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Jan 31, 2017 17:57
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MikeCrotch posted:The Tory rebels have confirmed they are going to toe the line so there is no chance of the vote failing They can't really block it either way, the only real thing that could theoretically have happened is some of the softer tories might have supported their amendments, which, well, Labour can't really make them do if the government is able to coerce their members to vote the bill through on their own terms. A nice thought but, well, unfortunately that's how majority governments work, you can't really stop them if they have sufficient cohesion.
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Jan 31, 2017 18:00
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but I suspect not since if Theresa May has any strengths its enforcing party discipline.
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OwlFancier posted:They can't really block it either way, the only real thing that could theoretically have happened is some of the softer tories might have supported their amendments, which, well, Labour can't really make them do if the government is able to coerce their members to vote the bill through on their own terms. I look forward to seeing how well this bold strategy of doing gently caress all because what's the point anyway pays off with the voting public.
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Jan 31, 2017 18:02
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Apparently very well given that they supported retaining FPTP in the last referendum.
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Jan 31, 2017 18:04
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I've taken no pleasure in seeing the knots the Corbyn Defence Force has had to tie itself into in order to defend his actions in the Brexit bill vote.
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Jan 31, 2017 18:07
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You never take pleasure in anything, all you do is whinge.
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Jan 31, 2017 18:09
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I take pleasure in lots of things. Currently none of that pleasure is derived from UK politics - which is the topic of this thread.
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Jan 31, 2017 18:11
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vegetables posted:What are all these MPs going to do if Brexit is awful and there is a massive backlash against it? That seems like a likely possibility not obviously being prepared for. When 250 million (or so, give or take a few million) vanishes from the UK's income tax earnings over the next two years, they won't say it's because of Brexit, they'll keep it as quiet as possible. When x billion vanishes from our GDP over the next few years then it will be about tightening our belts and the sacrifices needed to TAKE BACK CONTROL. And when we start selling NHS hospital services off to American Private health care groups it will be test cases and 'in order to ease the strains on the country' etc. etc. The tories will never say they hosed up.
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Jan 31, 2017 18:12
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Gonzo McFee posted:https://www.gov.uk/government/publications?publication_filter_option=consultations Amazing, they're closing literally the only two job centres in this area and so anyone who needs to use their services will have to travel 15 miles and three towns over to get to their nearest. Thats some bullshit.
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Jan 31, 2017 18:13
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