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Recoome posted:I think that there is some unique Western phenomena going on here, because I've read (somewhat a while ago, I can't quite find the soure right now) that younger people in the Russian Federation are growing up more conservative on several points (I remember something about sexuality, and maybe womens rights or something) then the older generation who grew up under the Soviet Union. This isn't excusing or condoning the USSR, but it is somewhat of a counterpoint to the observation that everyone becomes relatively more conservative as they age. It's probably all relative, and we can't do a whole "what if" because everything about our current worldview is shaped by what's already happened. They might become even more conservative as they age. I think a lot of it has to do with acquiring wealth. Older people typically have more resources (a house, superannuation, other investments) than younger people, and have more reason to vote for someone who promises to protect those resources.
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Jan 3, 2017 07:52
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open24hours posted:They might become even more conservative as they age. They might (which would align with Western trends), but it's really difficult to speculate but it's still an observation which is at odds with "people become more conservative with age". A counterpoint here would be that values and beliefs which were held in the Soviet Union are in fact ~conservative~ (because it represents the old order), and what is conservative is isn't universal. We define conservative as "fairly right-wing" in Australia (and in most other Western countries) because that's the general political tradition. Even typing it is difficult because the meaning in generally-accepted English is so Western specific that I'd need to actually specify which behaviours are actually conservative in order to make a point here (and I have to run to work)
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Jan 3, 2017 08:01
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open24hours posted:They might become even more conservative as they age. So what you're saying is that the trend will end with baby boomers?
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Jan 3, 2017 08:02
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Recoome posted:They might (which would align with Western trends), but it's really difficult to speculate but it's still an observation which is at odds with "people become more conservative with age". I don't know much about Russian politics or the day to day life of Russians, but it's easy to speculate. Maybe the withdrawal of the state made people more worried about their security so they turned to conservative politics to protect their safety? Maybe Russians who grew up after the fall of communism are relatively richer than their predecessors, and can't rely on the state to support them, so they turn to conservative politics to protect their wealth? Maybe all that family values propaganda is working? open24hours fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Jan 3, 2017 |
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Jan 3, 2017 08:06
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My best guess would be people who had to grow up in the shithole that was the Soviet Union telling their kids exactly how loving bad it was, and this being conflated into a general 'anything remotely leftist will ruin your country and kill millions' by post-Soviet governments. It's a misguided reaction to actual lovely things that happened, and being used as a bludgeon by autocrats like Putin against opposition. Combine it with religious groups swinging back into power and you end up with 'kill the gay muslim commies before they take are jobs'
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Jan 3, 2017 08:12
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All because they wanted loving acid washed jeans.
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Jan 3, 2017 08:14
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You can't really apply Western cultural values to Russia. They went from a feudal society straight into command economy communism, and the stamp of authoritarian control changed its name and methods but little else. Now its a virtual dictatorship with pseudo-market trappings. A few years ago there was a wave of nostalgia for the USSR, because the state just went away one day. It's hard to imagine what that would do to people, conservatism is probably the least violent reaction. Remember too, they had a very dicey situation with people who were no longer paid, eg the armed forces. They went through a decade or so of some fairly mad changes to get back to some kind of equilibrium and that's a former superpower. Take a smaller, weaker country like Iraq where even if the factory wasn't making money or even decent goods, the state made sure people were employed and the factory was productive. Despite a terrifying dictator, everything in Iraq worked along a fairly socialistic line. Then the US took that all away and sent in kids with no other qualification other than they voted Republican to run them. Result: basket-case. I doubt it will recover like Russia, they don't have any kind of institutional stability to fall back on.
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Jan 3, 2017 08:48
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'About as reasonable a process as you could possibly derive' - the Centrelink debt recovery 'process', according to Christian Porter who has adopted the Government Approved Strategy of stating the opposite of reality and banking on the fact that most people won't care enough to notice. They probably won't since I haven't heard it mentioned on the news but holy poo poo how can you think a system that takes fortnightly data and compares it to averaged annual data and demands money from people based on that is in any way reasonable. He also reckons that people have plenty of time to contest the debt and that the letters demanding people pay up now are not in fact debt notices. Clearly it is Labor's fault that people hate this system because they didn't start using it first.
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Jan 3, 2017 11:31
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Ten Becquerels posted:'About as reasonable a process as you could possibly derive' - the Centrelink debt recovery 'process', according to Christian Porter who has adopted the Government Approved Strategy of stating the opposite of reality and banking on the fact that most people won't care enough to notice. Reasonable to people who have never and will never be subject to the system because of well-to-do backgrounds and a FYGM attitude. i.e. it's reasonable that you polish my luxury BMW for slave wages while I eat caviar and drink $200 bottles of wine. What you don't find that reasonable? *cuts benefits*
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Jan 3, 2017 11:53
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ungulateman posted:the shithole that was the Soviet Union Loooool. Yes, obviously modern Russia is an improvement. They've improved the amount of homeless, the amount of children dying, the amount of crime. There are far more of all of these things nowadays. Improvement!
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Jan 3, 2017 13:27
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Krokodil is the lifeblood of the people comrade. Also Mother Russia Bleeds was a video game documentary.
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Jan 3, 2017 13:28
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jesus christ the whole Soviet Union thing was just an example about how counter-reform/humanistically-regressive views aren't the exclusive domain of older people gently caress please don't get hung up on whether the Soviet Union was good or not plllllleeeeaaaaaaaaassseeeeee
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Jan 3, 2017 13:39
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Glad it's uncontroversial enough that we don't have to. It was good compared to other bad things, including the bad thing Russia is now.
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Jan 3, 2017 13:48
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Thanks to this countries' vast and accurate archives of convict histories, I've traced my mothers side of the family back to the 2nd fleet of convicts arriving to Australia. The crimes that my great, great, etc. relatives' committed to be sentenced to this gaping brown land were: Male: stole a goose Female: was 'incorrigible' They met in country and bred profusely as any good Tasmanian is want to do in the cold winter to spring seasons of our southernmost land. I'm glad Dutton has the spuds to keep our proud country free of all those other ne'er-do-wells that aren't directly related to me and might lay claim to my hereditary apple orchards so long as I don't have to do any of the actually labour. e. vvv representation of Christensen taking the floor CATTASTIC fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Jan 3, 2017 |
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Jan 3, 2017 14:48
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Jan 3, 2017 14:51
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https://twitter.com/drzax/status/816053435476811776
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Jan 3, 2017 21:11
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The point below it seemed funnier. 'If the varied greatly during the year, the result may be incorrect' Sound like it would describe anyone between jobs and relying on new start...
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Jan 3, 2017 23:07
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Saying that's a documented bug is really stretching it. That site looks like instructions for Centrelink staff investigating this sort of thing, not a user manual for the data matching software.
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Jan 3, 2017 23:14
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open24hours posted:Saying that's a documented bug is really stretching it. That site looks like instructions for Centrelink staff investigating this sort of thing, not a user manual for the data matching software. okay but is the bug documented??
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Jan 3, 2017 23:23
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If it is I doubt it's published anywhere accessible to the general public.
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Jan 3, 2017 23:25
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Doesn't the ato get date from/to on group certs? Or are some companies just lazy and put the whole year? I'm certain that when my contract was novated to new companies during buyouts the group certificates had dates on them.
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Jan 3, 2017 23:27
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open24hours posted:If it is I doubt it's published anywhere accessible to the general public. look I'm not sure if it's because I'm sucking down my first cup of joe or something, but i don't see the point you are making. It doesn't ~have~ to be accessible to the general public to be documented. What's your point?
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Jan 3, 2017 23:28
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If it's not accessible then how would you know if it's documented or not? Whether it's a software bug or not is irrelevant anyway, Centrelink have been doing this sort of thing long enough that they should be able to get it right.
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Jan 3, 2017 23:30
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open24hours posted:If it's not accessible then how would you know if it's documented or not? Whether it's a software bug or not is irrelevant anyway, Centrelink have been doing this sort of thing long enough that they should be able to get it right. 
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Jan 3, 2017 23:48
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It's accessible - http://operational.humanservices.gov.au/public/Pages/debts/107-02040020-01 Rod Culleton got into a fight or something when someone came to serve him papers. Every news outlet offers a slightly different version but he did fall over and land on his hand. Apparently the someone serving the papers was a One Nation party member who had applied to stand for election, but understandably Pauline is distancing herself as much as possible from this whole mess. Rod's gonna have a press conference later today to tell everyone about how he totally kicked that guy's arse, no really you guys.
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Jan 4, 2017 00:06
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Ten Becquerels posted:It's accessible - http://operational.humanservices.gov.au/public/Pages/debts/107-02040020-01 wowzers Rod Culleton should fight (and lose) against a vending machine
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Jan 4, 2017 00:10
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QUACKTASTIC posted:Thanks to this countries' vast and accurate archives of convict histories, I've traced my mothers side of the family back to the 2nd fleet of convicts arriving to Australia. How did you do that? Family members in Tassie have been trying for years to track down our convict ancestors with little luck
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Jan 4, 2017 00:12
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Jan 4, 2017 00:16
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The Before Times posted:How did you do that? Family members in Tassie have been trying for years to track down our convict ancestors with little luck They started in NSW  e; if you know their original names (convicts tended to change their last names when they settled) the Sydney museum in Circular Quay has it all on microfiche; you can track them through birth/death records.. I've found the same in the Perth library, assume there's something similar in Hobart. CATTASTIC fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 00:16
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Ten Becquerels posted:It's accessible - http://operational.humanservices.gov.au/public/Pages/debts/107-02040020-01 That's the same page linked from Twitter though? I mean it even says that "Actual period(s) worked should be obtained so that averaging only occurs for periods worked." Whether this is a software bug or not is important (in an academic sense, not so much for the people getting the notices). If it is a software bug then it's trivial to fix, if it's a case of Centrelink ignoring their own advice that the estimates are unreliable then that's a much deeper problem. open24hours fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 00:18
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QUACKTASTIC posted:They started in NSW Even easier, if you have some idea of when they came, go here and search. They're digitizing the microfiche from 1845 up to 1922 when NSW finally gave up their immigration powers to the Federal government. This is how I found my Scottish grandmother's immigration. It doesn't just cover NSW arrivals, the ships often stopped at other cities along the way in both directions, sometimes you can get clues from that. A much harder nut to crack is my great-great-great grandfather and his wife's story, in that wobbly period of the mid-19th century where gold rushes came and went, nobody kept good records and people moved to where the work was and began hiding their convict ancestry. I presume they were buried somewhere but haven't found them yet.
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Jan 4, 2017 00:40
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open24hours posted:If it's not accessible then how would you know if it's documented or not? Whether it's a software bug or not is irrelevant anyway, Centrelink have been doing this sort of thing long enough that they should be able to get it right. open24hours posted:That's the same page linked from Twitter though? I mean it even says that "Actual period(s) worked should be obtained so that averaging only occurs for periods worked." Then you attempt to shift goal posts. Then you obfiscate. You are the singularly most tedious poo poo smear to ever post in Aus Pol. Con-loving-Gratulations.
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Jan 4, 2017 00:40
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The 'proof' was what I was responding to in the first place? I'm not trying to defend Centrelink if that's what you think. This appears to be an incredibly lazy and cynical exercise, but that page isn't any kind of gotcha. open24hours fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 00:42
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Cartoon posted:You are the singularly most tedious poo poo smear to ever post in Aus Pol. Con-loving-Gratulations. That's a big call, I think we need to go to the video umpire
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Jan 4, 2017 01:09
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I can live with that.
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Jan 4, 2017 01:11
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ewe2 posted:Even easier, if you have some idea of when they came, go here and search. That is loving awesome
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Jan 4, 2017 01:55
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I wasn't posting it as anything other than that I could find the procedure they supposedly follow on the Internet, I missed the link in the original post. I don't think anyone is trying to say that the Human Services minister defending the accuracy of a system that Centrelink procedures specifically comment on the inaccuracies of isn't a serious problem, even leaving aside how seedy the whole idea of demanding payments from low-income people without presenting real proof a debt exists is. Unrelated but apparently a 13 year-old in Brisbane died because choking yourself to get high is a fad now? Is this just a Queensland thing or am I a huge goober for never having heard of this in school??
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Jan 4, 2017 03:07
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Ten Becquerels posted:Unrelated but apparently a 13 year-old in Brisbane died because choking yourself to get high is a fad now? Is this just a Queensland thing or am I a huge goober for never having heard of this in school?? It's a thing, and not just in QLD. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choking_game
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Jan 4, 2017 03:18
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It shows that they were certainly aware this was going to be an issue and didn't take steps to address it, instead putting the onus on whoever they've targeted. My wild guess would be that they knew it would happen but hoped that those correctly targeted would say welp and start paying back the money and those inoccently caught would be collateral.
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Jan 4, 2017 03:32
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I used to make my face turn a deep purple by forcing all the blood into my head. I can't really remember the exact mechanism but I remember it involved tensing up all my muscles and like "focusing pressure" into my head. I remember it also shook my head a bit. Anyway it was a bit of a rush once you stopped and a fun little show-off trick that me and a couple friends would do from time to time. Until one friend and I decided to compete on who could go more purple in our terribly supervised high school art class one day. I ended up passing out, falling backwards out of my chair, and slamming my head into the corner of a bench behind me. I was apparently out for about 30 seconds while my best friend was frantically slapping my face and yelling to wake me up. Ah to be young.
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Jan 4, 2017 03:45
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