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Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

Since no one's posted it yet, there's actually been another big update to PW, not long ago. Like a month or something.

http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/197/

Apparently there will soon be a similar update to the rebalanced version from a while back, to bring a bunch of new features to that too.

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Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

Stink Terios posted:

So, did you see that second weapon get?
I'm pretty sure that was actually a power down that makes the ubercharge worse.

No, it makes Ubercharge give you invincibility as well.

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

FeyerbrandX posted:

So originally I was going to hold off science until episode 4, but no, no science must be done.



Regarding the chests that you can open later for better items: the randomizer removes that feature. Just open them as soon as you see them.

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

Here, a Raocow playthrough of it. I didn't find a good link of it alone, either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWACOq2Z4WU

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

cis autodrag posted:

you have no soul.

Neither does Raocow.

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

You know, people say DMantra's hacks are supposed to be really good graphically, but it always just looks like he fucks up palettes and slams tiles together to me. I mean, look at the palettes in Eris for the non-lab sections. It looks like he just changed colors on some of the tiles without any regard for why certain brightnesses were where they were. The constant use of random tiles to make statues and trees doesn't take into account tile cutoffs, so it just looks like a jumble. Over use of fog types, oversaturation of foreground tiles...

His layouts may be inventive, but it's hard to really parse what you're looking at in his hacks.

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

While I don't remember the map thing off the top of my head, the missiles thing was all the rage for a while in Super Metroid hacks. Apparently the idea of Samus becoming a walking death tank made the game seem too easy to a lot of hackers, so they decided to severely limit the amount of missiles and poo poo you got.

Additional things that were everywhere for a while included: enemies who did fucktons of damage, including on contact; enemies immune or super resistant to normal shots, so you had to use missiles or shoot them like fifty times; mandatory "hell runs" in Norfair before you got the Varia suit, generally timed so you would only barely have enough energy to make it to the recharge station, provided you didn't get hit or lost momentum; underwater sections pre-Gravity suit that had jumps and such that forced you to make them almost pixel perfectly; breakable/passthru blocks that didn't respond to the X-Ray visor; and broken save systems that meant the game just assumed you were using save states all the time and thus building difficulty around that.

Eris 2012 has a lot of that stuff removed for balance, thankfully, and people seemed to let up on that poo poo, or at least made "Easy-type" versions of their hacks that weren't bullshit. Go play the original Super Metroid Redesign, or DMantra's old Super Metroid Cliffhanger, though, if you wanna see all pretty much all that poo poo in abundance.

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

Mak0rz posted:

Redesign's rebalancing update, called Axiel Edition after the goon that famously LP'd it, was still pretty harsh. Drewseph (the hack author) was on as a guest commenter in at least one episode and they talked about a few of the design decisions he made and the things that can be improved on.

I played through Axiel Edition last year and it was still more of a huge chore than it was fun.

Definitely, but the fact that it was still a substantial improvement despite being a little of a chore should tell you how hosed things used to be.

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

What I mostly remember about Redesign is that it's ridiculously gigantic. The author invented extra lock-and-key mechanisms just so they could pad out the world, with the net result being that it takes ages to get from anywhere to anywhere else. Then they stuck a bunch of Chozo statues that you have to find to unlock Tourian, like the artifacts in Metroid Prime except there's no hint system to tell you which room to look in.

The physics engine was also tweaked, making gravity substantially stronger, the morphball roll much more slowly (coupled with a crapton of morphball mazes), and walljumping was made into an upgrade...and when you get it, it only works on specially-designated walls.

I played until the Lost Caverns, which is a Lost Woods-style maze (a room with four exits that all loop indefinitely) that you have to navigate in order to find Phantoon. For some reason that was my breaking point, rather than the many points before that that were also frankly rather bad.

The newer version is definitely better, but it still has massive issues. Tourian is loving bullshit, with the fifty thousand little morph ball paths you have to take. Plus there are a few things you have to shoot to turn off the death beams that, if shot in the wrong order, will just loving reset themselves with no indication you hosed up. It's not fun.

Mzbundifund posted:

I do like how visibly distinct the areas are, but is the entire hack this bad in terms of foreground occlusion? It seemed like every other room had some giant thing in the foreground obstructing the screen, and it looks like practically every powerup requires finding which parts of the "walls" are actually just fake foreground objects. When I saw what you had to do to find even the bombs I laughed out loud.

That's sort of DMantra's thing. If I wasn't a terrible person who would abandon it five minutes in, I would do a quick LP of Cliffhanger Easy Type, just to show it. I'd like to temper this stuff, though, by saying they're not BAD hacks, they're just kind of ugly. I feel like a lot of the art could be fixed with some palette changes. I'm too lazy to do them for the gently caress of it though.

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

XavierGenisi posted:

Isn't one of the things in Redesign that it forces you to run through large parts of Norfair without the varia suit? I know that was a really bad bit of design in one of these hacks, but I wasn't sure which one it was from.

As I stated before: multiple hacks did it, along with Gravity-less Maridia. The idea was essentially "make these suits more of a reward by making you deal with the hazard beforehand", but it usually ended up being "hinder the player for an extended period of time and trade fun for frustration".

Also, it kinda confuses me how it seems like no one has swapped the suit order, giving you Gravity first to make water areas navigable, and then Varia later for fire and lava. Or even reskinning the "hot" areas into ice or something and making the Varia suit help against extreme conditions like cold as well. I mean, Fusion did it. At this point, I'm pretty sure ASM patches would let you swap Gravity and Varia, and there are a variety of other environments you could have them protect against instead of the same fire/water duo.

Kurui Reiten fucked around with this message at 08:29 on Apr 2, 2017

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

FPzero posted:

It's because Gravity Suit, when obtained, gives the player all the benefits of Varia Suit too. Even if you never had Varia, you will suddenly be heatproof. There's a patch to separate the effects now but I don't think any major hacks have taken advantage of it yet, or if there are some they have not been released yet.

Oh, I know, but what I mean is just that it's taken so long for anyone to get to this point of even trying it. Regardless, though, a simple reskinning of the areas that Varia protects against could be interesting, but no one seemed to bother with that.

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

Yeah, that rear end in a top hat should probably be removed from scoring. If you think the level is a bitch, give it a green door. gently caress, maybe make some kind of "This level is hard mark" on the world map, if you don't think just having a green door is enough. Don't purposefully gently caress with a level's scores because you want to send some kind of message.

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

Cheez posted:

I can see that nobody is actually going to actually step up and justify the Ninjaboy mudslinging and I can safely disregard any opinions from anyone doing so. Fancy!

People confused Ninjaboy with Nimono, because of similar name starts, and the fact that Ninjaboy possibly abused save states without disclosing that and it may have inflated some of his scores. There, that's what's going on.

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

Stink Terios posted:

Heh, Scorpion's hacks always gave me a "stay the gently caress away" vibe from the very beginning.
A lot of drama surrounding that guy and his hacks.

Tell us more please. :allears:

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

I really wish the palette stuff was more interesting. It seems like it just slaps everyone with some random green and purple mess every time I do it. I want poo poo like palettes that actually look like they're viable.

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

Yes, thanks for the LP. Eris seems very much to be sort of "well let's make the player get completely lost", but kinda in a tedious way. Definitely not his finest work.

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Super Metroid chat: Hyper Metroid is what happens when you dial up Samus's movement abilities to the max. Her maximum speed without speedbooster is about as high as it is in vanilla with speedbooster, she can speedboost in morphball form, she can keep speed boost while turning around as long as she turns around in midair, and she can do the damage knockback animation whenever she wants to, which gives her an ersatz backflip ability. Oh, and Spazer and Plasma are compatible with each other, allowing for a ridiculously powerful five-beam combo.

In normal gameplay, these don't affect things too much; most players don't have the skills to really take advantage of the new techniques. But speedruns are a different story. Here's a speedrun of the hack. The quality's a bit muddy, alas, but it's still pretty dang impressive. Alternatively, here's a TAS.

You should LP it so we can all learn more about it.

(also I can confirm it's real good)

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

Having looked at some of Ninja Boy's videos of him playing SMW hacks in the related, he apparently plays the game horribly stretched, on ZSNES, and abuses rewind.

So yeah.

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

It's like, if lots of people feel like flying over your level, you've done something wrong. Sure, some people will anyway, but if your level is so rear end that the only way people feel like playing it is to not, then they're not the problem.

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

They play with and abuse save states and rewind when playing their levels, so to them the idea of "this is too loving hard and obnoxious" doesn't exist. They can literally press a button, go back like a second in time or so, and know what's coming. Thus, to them, it doesn't matter if you don't get power ups when your ability to literally see the future allows you to avoid ever getting hit.

They don't understand that having to do that isn't a positive, though. They're just abusing the idea of trial and error in miniature for every obstacle. Again, save states and such here, if you get fatigued on a level it's very easy, from their perspective, to drop a save state and come back later.

That, and they want to feel clever. They assume you'll use save states and rewind, too, so they try to up the challenge regardless. Require levels of precision that ensure extremely minor mistakes are punished by death? Doesn't matter when you can reload immediately before the attempt, but they don't think about the idea of those players who are playing it "vanilla" or whatever and actually following the game's rules for lives and midpoints and stuff.

Basically, if your level is trying to gently caress the player over because they have access to outside emulator tools, it doesn't matter if it's clever, it should go in the bottom of the pile. Make something fun, don't make something "fun".

Other news, Minus Infinity remains my favorite Mega Man ROM hack, and also everyone should play Make A Good Mega Man Level Contest 2, it's good, it has a gently caress load of unlockables, and it's basically just a joy to play. Except for a few parts, but overall way less obnoxious bullshit than VLDC.

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Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

You know you guys missed a path in the last VLDC9 level, right? There's a spot in that space station looking level, near the beginning, where you can go left through the wall. No idea what's there, I never got to the end of it and didn't fully care, but just figured I'd mention it.

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